Impressions of The Melbourne HiFi Show 2023

[ICUToo]

1 hour ago, Demondes said:

a new pair of superwax Mini’s

They are so pretty- I think I am headed for a pair at some stage

[Philharmonic]

On 20/10/2023 at 7:54 PM, Steff said:

I spent 90 minutes in room 2208 with epiphany audio's TAD CE-1x and ME-1x.

And the very impressive turntable & arm & cartridge.

Amp & CD player TAD.

Hi @Steff

So pleased you enjoyed Room 2208, where Gareth was featuring the TAD Micro and Compact Evolution speakers. I was there assisting him and developed a huge admiration for both pairs of speakers and the electronics. 

TAD C1000 Pre-Amp

TAD M1000 Power Amp

TAD D1000TX SACD...all components looked stunning in black.

The J Sikora turntable was a beautiful piece of work / art, with an amazing cartridge / tonearm combo. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Philharmonic
Detail

[Kaynin]

There was one room I avoided, and am happy I missed.  Poor behaviour in the past is fact, so current love-in's to suit their needs doesn't forgive actions.

 

It was interesting being in the NAD/Dali room.  One bloke commented something that he couldn't believe such expensive speakers would be paired with such cheap electronics.  The retailer advised that the electronics were $30k+    The bloke said something about NAD being cheap stuff.  Oh geez, synergy my friend, synergy...

[POV]

1 hour ago, Kaynin said:

There was one room I avoided, and am happy I missed.  Poor behaviour in the past is fact, so current love-in's to suit their needs doesn't forgive actions.

 

It was interesting being in the NAD/Dali room.  One bloke commented something that he couldn't believe such expensive speakers would be paired with such cheap electronics.  The retailer advised that the electronics were $30k+    The bloke said something about NAD being cheap stuff.  Oh geez, synergy my friend, synergy...

I have had more than a bit of that type of judgement here on this forum for using NAD Masters electronics.

[Kaynin]

2 hours ago, POV said:

I have had more than a bit of that type of judgement here on this forum for using NAD Masters electronics.

Well the combo sounded superb.  I love it when people pass such judgements, they simply put their hands up to be the fool.

[Addicted to music]

5 hours ago, Kaynin said:

Well the combo sounded superb.  I love it when people pass such judgements, they simply put their hands up to be the fool.

reminds me back in 2016,  

 

Mac Air>  Full DCS stacked digital > Dan D’Agostino electronics > set of Wilson floorstand.   Almost 1/2 million $$$$ in the room.
 

I got them to play a few of my tracks and it was mind blowing, had to go home turn my rig on and do a sound check.   As people walked out one commented that the top end was too glassy and the bottom end was boomy,    I bet that no one there can afford such set up.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Addicted to music

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Keith_W said:

Head-Fi used to organize headphone GTG's, but I haven't seen one for a long time. Maybe something we could do on SNA. 

 

@Indie Hi-Fi has organised some in the past. With that said, "Headzones" was a great success and I can confirm it will be back in 2024. We are looking into some soundbooths that can be located in the same vicinity so that open backed headphones can be better experienced in a show environment.

[Guest]

Discussions on the use of DSP and the end-result has been split to a seperate topic in this forum.

[aechmea]

7 hours ago, Keith_W said:

diagonally set up room ... very clever!

 

https://www.decware.com/paper14.htm

 

This is a paper describing the diagonal speaker set-up.  Maybe the one and only paper of an original idea.

 

I have heard it in a home set-up; sounded excellent to me.

 

Sorry, a bit OT, but I couldn't help when I saw Keith's comment.

[Steff]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

Discussions on the use of DSP and the end-result has been split to a seperate topic in this forum.

 

[Keith_W]

2 hours ago, aechmea said:

 

https://www.decware.com/paper14.htm

 

This is a paper describing the diagonal speaker set-up.  Maybe the one and only paper of an original idea.

 

I have heard it in a home set-up; sounded excellent to me.

 

Sorry, a bit OT, but I couldn't help when I saw Keith's comment.

 

I think it's totally on topic, one thing that the show should teach many of us is how the professionals deal with challenging rooms. Most of them had identical rooms, now they had to choose a speaker, electronics, and a strategy to set them up and get them sounding right. There were a myriad solutions, and many of them worked. More than one way to skin a cat! 

 

BTW that diagonal room idea is also mentioned in Toole's book. If I recall, he said "many people do not appreciate the advantages of a diagonal setup in a listening room ..." and goes on to explain why. Amelioration of the first reflection point, with the walls directing the reflections away from the listener is one of them. Thank you for that paper, I have bookmarked it and I will go read it later. 

 

@Marc I was talking about a private headphone GTG where people bring their own setups. These have a different vibe to "industry" headphone shows. Just like home GTG's are different to the SNA show. Maybe I should organize one

[Grant Slack]

4 hours ago, aechmea said:

 

https://www.decware.com/paper14.htm

 

This is a paper describing the diagonal speaker set-up.  Maybe the one and only paper of an original idea.

 

I have heard it in a home set-up; sounded excellent to me.

 

1 hour ago, Keith_W said:

...BTW that diagonal room idea is also mentioned in Toole's book. If I recall, he said "many people do not appreciate the advantages of a diagonal setup in a listening room ..." and goes on to explain why. Amelioration of the first reflection point, with the walls directing the reflections away from the listener is one of them. Thank you for that paper, I have bookmarked it and I will go read it later. 

Hi guys,

 

Toole was talking about the 1970s, when speakers had fairly poor directivity, so side wall reflections were causing havoc, and there were benefits to reducing them. However, his subsequent research into stereo showed a near-universal preference for hearing the first reflections from side walls...as long as the speakers behave well off-axis. So I think the diagonal room idea is dated.

 

Speaking of dated, the Audio Note AN-E is a typical 1970s speaker, including fairly poor off-axis behaviour. So, maybe it would benefit from a diagonal room setup...which makes it ironic that they are recommended by the maker for corner placement. That's what happens if you design a speaker with EBS ported bass like the AN-E, it really needs some boundary reinforcement by way of rough compensation. On the other, other hand, Audio Note say to start with the speaker in the corner and experiment with moving it further and further away from the corners, until you like it best. Now, I do understand the principle of balancing compromises, but some compromises are simply unnecessary.

 

cheers

Grant

[ThirdDrawerDown]

Quote

 

Here’s a dirty little secret, next time you’re at Bunnings for $5

 

https://www.bunnings.com.au/jack-50-x-50-x-12mm-anti-vibration-squares-8-pack_p3961977?region_id=116395&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6I_9rq6NggMVxYBLBR1pDwN_EAQYAiABEgJj__D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

 

Quote

I will do a technical thread on vibration isolation when I get a chance.

 

Thanks, looking forward to it.  I use those litle Bunnings squares (photo in my Cary amp advert) also Lack tabletop, deflated tyres, squash balls, balsa wood, and ball bearings in shallow dishes. Oh my!

[klm]

1 hour ago, Grant Slack said:

 

Hi guys,

 

Toole was talking about the 1970s, when speakers had fairly poor directivity, so side wall reflections were causing havoc, and there were benefits to reducing them. However, his subsequent research into stereo showed a near-universal preference for hearing the first reflections from side walls...as long as the speakers behave well off-axis. So I think the diagonal room idea is dated.

 

Speaking of dated, the Audio Note AN-E is a typical 1970s speaker, including fairly poor off-axis behaviour. So, maybe it would benefit from a diagonal room setup...which makes it ironic that they are recommended by the maker for corner placement. That's what happens if you design a speaker with EBS ported bass like the AN-E, it really needs some boundary reinforcement by way of rough compensation. On the other, other hand, Audio Note say to start with the speaker in the corner and experiment with moving it further and further away from the corners, until you like it best. Now, I do understand the principle of balancing compromises, but some compromises are simply unnecessary.

 

cheers

Grant

So you attended the show and listened to them play?

[tripitaka]

16 minutes ago, klm said:

So you attended the show and listened to them play?

I heard them and was not as gobsmacked as many here seem to have been.

I was doubtful about the bass linearity actually and felt the corner loading may have been overcooked.

[U_J]

I made the trip down from Sydney and it was worth the trip down for dinner on Saturday night at Donovans...

 

I heard better sounds this year compared to when I was last down pre-covid, though I was getting annoyed with hearing a fair bit of edgy , gritty  sound, not sure if it was poorly implemented digital or a poor choice of amplification or both.

 

Some standouts for me were;

 

Audionote  field coil speakers - just lovely natural sounding stuff.

 

OAD Ultrafidelity open baffle speakers - Wow the "boxes" really do dissapear ! Never really got to hear what the bass was capable of though.

 

Revival Audio speakers - surprisingly good.

 

Martin Logan bookshelves - at $3300 including stands ( show special ) were one of the bargains of the show.

 

Revel floor standers playing through the Cambridge amps and inbuilt dac - some of the best detail and seperation of sounds that just popped from nowhere, there was a track that they played which I did not get a chance to Shazam that had incredible impact and  decay of guitar and drums which I really wanted to play when I got back home to compare sounds on my own system, maybe somebody here has an idea ?

 

Special mention to the room playing the Hana cartridge as clean , musical and detailed sound as I have heard from a cartridge

 

I was dissapointed with the bookings only rooms, when you have limited time it sucks, basically just had to give them a miss.

 

John

 

 

[Lysander]

8 hours ago, Marc said:

 

@Indie Hi-Fi has organised some in the past. With that said, "Headzones" was a great success and I can confirm it will be back in 2024. We are looking into some soundbooths that can be located in the same vicinity so that open backed headphones can be better experienced in a show environment.

Yesterday I emailed Lachlan from Mini Disc to thank him & team for an impressive setup and was happy to hear so. Was told he will be back next year for sure.

I think it's important to show appreciation to retailers who make a good show.

[lucmor444]

I agree that rooms requiring bookings (outside the HT set ups) were an unusual approach by the relevant vendors. They perhaps know their customer base well but in my opinion potentially excluded new customers from experiencing what they had to offer. I didn’t attend any of those rooms. 

[Willco]

7 hours ago, aechmea said:

 

https://www.decware.com/paper14.htm

 

This is a paper describing the diagonal speaker set-up.  Maybe the one and only paper of an original idea.

 

I have heard it in a home set-up; sounded excellent to me.

 

 

Indeed  this variant on the "usual' alignment of domestic Speakers can be exceedingly beneficial in the ways Toole and Deckert mention. David Wilson used to setup Watt/Pups this way at dealers and shows.

 

I use this method myself (being in a small rental room) and works superbly. 

 

ASC Corp( Tubes Traps) have a paper and diagrams for rooms --and the diagonal one is the set I follow as pictured below.

 

For the Thread I'd like to thank all the posters and snappers for the files and observations -especially for us that could not make it to the Show --and from what Ive read Congrats  to the organisers /SNA for the Top shelf show --I may try next year!

Kudos Willco

 

[tripitaka]

10 minutes ago, lucmor444 said:

I agree that rooms requiring bookings (outside the HT set ups) were an unusual approach by the relevant vendors. They perhaps know their customer base well but in my opinion potentially excluded new customers from experiencing what they had to offer. I didn’t attend any of those rooms. 

 

I assume it is a ploy to trap you to listen to their full spiel 

I didn't bother with any of them, though I will admit that keeping a lid on numbers ensures more people have a proper listening position and may gain a more favourable impression.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, lucmor444 said:

I agree that rooms requiring bookings (outside the HT set ups) were an unusual approach by the relevant vendors. They perhaps know their customer base well but in my opinion potentially excluded new customers from experiencing what they had to offer. I didn’t attend any of those rooms. 

This is quite normal at other hi-fi shows around the globe and it is to ensure those who really want to get a good demonstration (or in some cases a presentation from an overseas visitor) can do so - it isn't setup to annoy people. Usually (from my experience) at these shows if someone with a "ticket" leaves mid-demonstration and others are waiting outside, they would/should usually let someone in to make up the numbers.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Hydrology

[lucmor444]

Thanks for explanation on what usually happens at other events - I have only ever attended the Melbourne show.
 

I can understand the benefits of a booked session, particularly if it includes a specific presentation/presented as well a providing a more focussed demonstration.
 

Perhaps some open sessions could be interspersed with booked sessions to encourage drop ins and potentially new customers. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, lucmor444 said:

Perhaps some open sessions could be interspersed with booked sessions to encourage drop ins and potentially new customers. 

 

Agree 100%

I also think that a byproduct of the "reservation" approach creates the illusion of hype and FOMO*

 

 

*fear of missing out

[tripitaka]

Just now, Hydrology said:

 

I also think that a byproduct of the "reservation" approach creates the illusion of hype and FOMO*

*fear of missing out

 

 

Not with me, there are far more than enough audio products in the world to choose from

[U_J]

57 minutes ago, Hydrology said:

This is quite normal at other hi-fi shows around the globe and it is to ensure those who really want to get a good demonstration (or in some cases a presentation from an overseas visitor) can do so - it isn't setup to annoy people. Usually (from my experience) at these shows if someone with a "ticket" leaves mid-demonstration and others are waiting outside, they would/should usually let someone in to make up the numbers.

In recent years I attended the New York and L.A. show ( twice ) and neither of these has a pre-booked system in any rooms, my experience is that most people spend an average of 3 to 5 minutes in a room and often people will walk in and walk back out almost immediately if they don't like what they see or hear ,  if you enter a room and it is busy you generally geta seat within a few minutes , the flow of people is important particularly if you have a lot of rooms to get to.   In this case I did not bother to come back because it is simply too inconvenient when you are in a flow of people down long corridors and time is short.