Shortlisting Floorstanders for Consideration

[PassionForSound]

4 hours ago, HeyNow Hi-Fi said:

Hi @El Tel

I want to suggest you consider the Kudos Titan 606.

These rather diminutive speakers have an amazing sound stage in terms of width, height, and depth. Their appearance doesn't dominate the room. 

I have recently taken a pair of these into my range lineup and have been impressed, 

I did an event with @PassionForSound in the store couple of weeks ago. 

Many of the attendees sought me out to discuss them, 

We all loved the sound. 

They were run predominantly with an SPL S1200 power amplifier. 

 

Kudos Titan 606

 

 

 

Kind regards 

Geoff 

0415668307

 

 

 

 

Yep, I'll second that. The Titan 606 were mighty impressive. Their sense of presence in the bass was incredibly impressive too, but they aren't a bassy speaker as such - they just have authority and presence to go with outstanding imaging and detail retrieval

[Silver Audiophile]

37 minutes ago, El Tel said:

 

Can you explain why none of my initial list don't work and in particular the Focal? I'm really trying to get to technical rejection versus personal preference/aesthetics...

Thanks

 

I have listened to most of Focal range, including the Focal Grande Utopia, Maestro, Scala, and Sopra 3 (different locations and systems).

Excluding the Grande Utopia, the rest seriously lack audiophile punch. I listen for tonal/timbre accuracy, imaging, transparency, dynamism, bass control, highs detailed but not bright, mid range fidelity, and overall musically.

On the technical side, a quick look under the hood at say the crossover on the new Sopra, reveals serious lacking. A cheap $15 parts costs on a printed circuit board, for a speaker retailing for over $30K!

On the photos below, look at the crossovers. The cheapest polypropylene caps used in line, and rest are electrolytics. Standard wire wound resistors for the bass costing 25 cents!

My Duntech Senators signature speakers retails for between the price of Sopra 2 and 3, but uses all hand made point to point copper rails, Duelund caps and silver graphite resistors, Mundorf silver solder etc etc. Night and day difference.

Look up the price of parts costs of the Duelund caps and resistors- costs a Motzah! The Sopra uses inexpensive internal wiring. The Senator uses about 6 meters of Cables FM Songbird cabling. Retail price on a 4m pair of Songbird is $4.5K alone.

 

 

Below is a photo I took of the exposed Sopra crossover whilst I was on holiday in Thailand:

[Grizaudio]

How about, PMC MB2 se second hand 

Amazing…. . 
 

If I wasn’t into large waveguides and compression drivers, the PMC MB2se is what I would own… 

[Silver Audiophile]

1 hour ago, El Tel said:

 

Can you explain why none of my initial list don't work and in particular the Focal? I'm really trying to get to technical rejection versus personal preference/aesthetics...

Thanks

 

The bulky size of the Duntech Senator's crossover components and for the purpose to isolate the crossovers from cabinet resonance, they are external boxes.

Below is a video I made of it. Each external crossover box weighs 10kg each. See the link below to the price of Cables FM Songbird, which are used internally within the speakers and externally to connect the speaker to the external crossover box.

 

https://magentaaudio.com.au/product/cfm-songbird-high-end-series-speaker-cables-pair/

 

Watch is 1440p HD.. the attention is to detail is astonishing..

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Silver Audiophile

[Antipodean Brad]

Just to add to Rantan's suggestion -

 

https://www.melbournehifi.com.au/products/monitor-audio-pl300-ii-floorstanding-speakers

 

Not the latest model, but still, does this make them a bargain?

[mattd2308]

15 hours ago, El Tel said:

 

On what basis, Matt? Just a personal preference thing, or based on experience of one or more of my list and/or synergy knowledge you have?

 

They do seem like a logical step for me from the Tannoys. All the knowledge that walked out of the door at Tannoy wound-up at Fyne. The design cues go way behind imitation...

 

I have also actually heard a pair of the 704s too when @BugPowderDust had them for review. They have a wonderful presence.

As you've stated lot of Tannoy experience gone into these, always liked Tannoy when in my 20's, (now  56) as first REAL proper speakers were M20 Golds, They were audio bliss compared to what I had.

Have not heard Fynes, but from reading forums and reviews they seem to be very dynamic, look the business and likely easy to drive. Other than that, those mentioned also Wilson Benesch and the Kudos that Geoff recommends, geez, would love to be able to have the problem you've got in making a choice. Whatever you choose, would love to hear with the McIntosh. Comes down to your preference, and as you say, synergy.  Cheers.

[Andythiing]

TAD standmounts

 

if you want to know why just ask @Yamaha_man

[Satanica]

12 hours ago, andyr said:

But I expect they are pricey - and some of that price goes into them being able to deliver "16Hz in room" ... which is unnecessary, if they are being mated to a pair of subs.

 

Not as pricey as you might think.

 

With an eye on the future, that being Dirac Live - Active Room Treatment, mains that go all the way down should be an advantage because they work as extra bass sources along with any subwoofers. That is, if my basic understanding of the technology is correct.

[Godot]

Any consideration of Sonus Faber? I have a pair of Olympica IIIs with McIntosh electronics and Rel subs, very happy with the sound over a broad range of genres, good at low or high volume for hours and hours of fatigue free listening. I would love to hear some models from higher up their range, but it might be better if I don’t!

[tripitaka]

1 hour ago, Satanica said:

 

 

With an eye on the future, that being Dirac Live - Active Room Treatment, mains that go all the way down should be an advantage because they work as extra bass sources along with any subwoofers. That is, if my basic understanding of the technology is correct.

 

Depends on implementation, I guess, as I have my two SVS 2000Pro subs cranked up to max vol, so I can attenuate higher frequencies and achieve a flat response down to 16hz. Since the main speakers see the same DSP'd signal, the mains actually see very little lower bass (at least for frequencies at which they would be capable of producing a decent response).

 

Edit: sorry just realised you arent talking about Dirac Live Room Correction here (I hadnt caught up with their new Active room treatment tech). Sorry for the distraction.

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by tripitaka

[Satanica]

1 hour ago, tripitaka said:

 

Depends on implementation, I guess, as I have my two SVS 2000Pro subs cranked up to max vol, so I can attenuate higher frequencies and achieve a flat response down to 16hz. Since the main speakers see the same DSP'd signal, the mains actually see very little lower bass (at least for frequencies at which they would be capable of producing a decent response).

 

 

I'm not sure what your point is here.

 

But to clarify my point, in regards to Dirac Live ART, the lower mains can go the better they can be utilised as both bass sources and active room treatment devices. 

 

I currently have my mains crossed over at 80Hz to two subwoofers, but I will re-evaluate this when I can get Dirac Live ART for a price I'm willing to pay. My mains measure flat in room to 20Hz.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Satanica

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Because you mention MA platinum in your list and your room could carry them.

 

pluck the fronts out of this bargain package 

 

https://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/monitor-audio-platinum-pl500ii-loudspeakers.html

Edited August 18, 2023 by Hi-Fi Whipped

[El Tel]

54 minutes ago, Godot said:

Any consideration of Sonus Faber?

 

Some of the Amati range in violin red give me a bit of a stirring in my gentleman's area... They are going to wind-up above the amount I'm prepared to spend though.

 

I think the biggest Olympica would be good, but pricing hikes have pushed them to a point where they don't represent value anymore.

 

They remain a second hand proposition though.

 

4 hours ago, mattd2308 said:

would love to be able to have the problem you've got in making a choice.

 

I am in a fortunate position, yes. It's definitely a First World Problem.

 

24 minutes ago, Satanica said:

 

But to clarify my point, in regards to Dirac Live Art

 

You're on the money with my thoughts on ART. I'm already running LBC and it's a logical progression towards ART, so lower-reaching floorstanders remain my preference.

 

13 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

pluck the fronts out of this bargain package

 

Yeah, I saw that. They are just too imposing for a general living area. If I had a separate closed off listening room, maybe.

[MTL]

Vivid audio Kaya 45 if  you can tolerate the form factor  . Looks like heynow hi fi is a stockist

Edited August 19, 2023 by MTL

[El Tel]

20 minutes ago, MTL said:

Vivid audio Kaya 45 if  you can tolerate the form factor  . Looks like heynow hi fi is a stockist

 

Hmmm. At the risk of putting Geoff off-side... I think this should appear as a picture next to the definition of "acquired taste". They look like something you'd expect to find in the Teletubbies listening room.

 

I think Mrs Tel would definitely baulk at having something with the aesthetic qualities of a melted welly in the main family room.

[MTL]

Yes agree about the unusual shape. I use the Giya g2  and took a lot of getting used to 

[sir sanders zingmore]

What about the Kii3+ BXTs in the classifieds?

 

Thats a hellava lot of speaker and amps and DACs for the price. 

 

[El Tel]

6 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

What about the Kii3+ BXTs in the classifieds?

 

Thats a hellava lot of speaker and amps and DACs for the price. 

 

 

I'm close enough to my own personally imagined finish line that the speakers are the last piece, so I'd be very reticent to go for actives. Sort of baby/bathwater thing...

 

Right now I've just got Dirac LBC working nicely on my Arcam AV41 and I do love the McIntosh house sound. The logical push to nirvana is finding a step-up from the Tannoys I have currently. If I get there and live with it for a while, actives is something I might consider if I subsequently wanted a wholesale change again.

[Satanica]

51 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

What about the Kii3+ BXTs in the classifieds?

 

Thats a hellava lot of speaker and amps and DACs for the price. 

 

An excellent speaker, but somewhat output limited, especially for the price. The BXT will help the low end, but presumably not the high end.

 

"Based on my results above, it is obvious the output is limited (via internal DSP) somewhere above the 96dB @ 1m output level."

 

https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kii_three/

 

Note: If anyone gets their feathers ruffled by this, remember I'm only the messenger.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Satanica

[frednork]

22 hours ago, El Tel said:

I usually listen at about 86-88dB background, but go to 92-93dB-ish when I'm feeling like a little critical listening or when we have a house party (when it goes a bit higher still).

these volumes are pretty high so you really need something that can crank when required (are you sure you listen at high 80's for background? I  cant do much else but listen at those levels) 

 

Fynes will be enjoyable but maybe too close to what you have.  PMC mb2se or MA pl 500's could work, have heard both against each other and both at a similar level. Duntechs could be good but have not heard that model but just need to make sure they can manage the levels you intend to use them at with ease. 

 

Another not mentioned yet is ATC100. I have heard these sounding really good and there are active and passive versions. Regardless of my amp fetish the active version is compelling value and sounds very good but worth comparing both. 

 

Will be interesting to see where you end up as there are so many choices at this level. 

[tripitaka]

@El Tel isn't your listening area pretty large? You might need some real oomph to generate the listening levels you are after (no particular suggestions, but horn loading maybe?)

 

Also, having belatedly realised what you guys are talking about with DIRAC ART, I can certainly see that a floorstander could complement the use of subs.

 

Anyway, good luck and most importantly have fun looking

 

[El Tel]

16 minutes ago, tripitaka said:

@El Tel isn't your listening area pretty large? You might need some real oomph to generate the listening levels you are after

 

It is a good size, but of the 6m x 15m, only the closest 5m to the end wall matters as that is where the listening position it - so think 6m x 5m. I am not looking for Saturn V levels of volume - I can generate way over 100dB already with the Tannoys and MC830s as it is.

[Grizaudio]

Ask 40 people, and get 40 different answers….
 

The thread has some very nice suggestions, but most are not BIG enough IMHO to produce convincing dynamic swings, and dynamic punch in a room that size… 

 

Displacement matters for recreating life like sound. 

Buy right and you could potentially say good bye to the subs… 

 

[2Brix]

@El Tel https://vaf.com.au/shop/ols/products/signature-i93mkiii

 

 

[Pops110]

Some Wilson’s in the classifieds at the moment.

 

https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/590333-wilson-audio-sophia-series-3-floor-standing-speakers/