unclemack Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) On 22/10/2019 at 9:18 AM, Tubularbells said: Wow thank you fellow SNAers. For the record im hypersensitive to boomy bass and was already fully aware of the rooms 50hz peak many speakers ago. In fact It first raised its ugly head when I moved from my smaller ZU Souls & REL sub to the much bigger Zingali's and then even more so when I moved to the twin 15" JBL's. At one point I had the DEQX HDP 5 (with the Zingali's) and managed to get the room flat but reckon I fell into the rookie mistake of making it too flat which resulted in a lifeless sound that to me just wasn't enjoyable so that didn't last long at all. Perhaps I should have persisted with it a bit more... Regarding amps ive definitely heard a difference in bass response with the JBL's using different amplification. For example the Jeff Rowland Continuum had a tighter bass control than say the Audio Research Ref150 but as suggested I dont think the issue is with the amps ive used (well maybe just a tad) its really the room. For whatever reason (and im baffled as to how this can be) the Duntechs 4x 12" drivers energise the room much more than the 4 x 15" drivers in the JBL's. They certainly dig deeper and being sealed would have thought they would be more forgiving to room placement than the bass reflex design of the JBL's but its not the case at all. Im waiting on the GIK Acoustics engineer to get back to me with any suggestions. and have build a quick and dirty mockup of the room layout using there planning software. I don’t know much but I’m very surprised few, to this point mentioned room treatment. From everything I’ve read over the years, it’s this that will make or break a system. Hang tight mate, wait for some expert opinion in this regard and things may very well change for the better. Hearing my speakers in my (untreated) room vs their previous (well treated) room was a night and day difference. Cheers, M. PS: I wrote this before I saw the Frednork visit. Good stuff. Edited October 23, 2019 by unclemack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 14 hours ago, Jventer said: Hi @Darren69 but really interested how you know this If you ever come around for some JBL goodness and some hop juice I might tell you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 On 22/10/2019 at 3:58 PM, Tubularbells said: Nothing like hitting the skins in a banana plantation.., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth vader Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Stop listening to the system and listen to the music 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 A couple of more pics from the day. As you can see the Sov's are back on the short wall as that provided the best overall sound. @frednork desecrating the church with his digital rig! Although it didn't take long for the powers of evil to possess those 1's & 0's 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Cheezmonn, I go away for three minutes Where is all of this mate? Upstairs or summat? Looks bloody awesome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Tubularbells said: Although it didn't take long for the powers of evil to possess those 1's & 0's Ha! Being a "senior citizen" who prefers a conservative aesthetic, I bought one of those Intel NUC's only after making sure the skull could be turned off. But I've been surprised that I prefer to leave it switched on. FWIW, the short wall placement looks more intuitive and makes the mighty Sovereigns seem less intimidating. Glad to hear it is delivering the goods sound wise. Edited October 25, 2019 by Tony M 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Tony M said: Ha! Being a "senior citizen" who prefers a conservative aesthetic, I bought one of those Intel NUC's only after making sure the skull could be turned off. But I've been surprised that I prefer to leave it switched on. FWIW, the short wall placement looks more intuitive and makes the mighty Sovereigns seem less intimidating. Glad to hear it is delivering the goods sound wise. Heavy Metal senior at Woodstock ? WOW! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 ME monos's gone So time to give the Ashly's a tune up and a few hours later both offset & bias are perfect (much better than the previous "cold" bias adjustment I did last year). And for the fastidious yeah it looks weird as ive had to flip both LHS modules upside down on order to access the trim pots. Will be interesting putting them back into service after a few weeks with the ME's. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jakeyb77 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Now I feel bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, jakeyb77 said: Now I feel bad You should! Ashly's were cowering in the corner for weeks while the ME's became the top dog for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemarquis Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) Look very tidy for humble "PA Amps" . Let's see how they shape up after the tweak and room changes Edited November 1, 2019 by lemarquis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 Church "mass" evacuation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Tubularbells said: Church "mass" evacuation? Having a large sale of your 80's records TB ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 Just now, evil c said: Having a large sale of your 80's records TB ?? Hell would freeze first evil one.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 1 minute ago, evil c said: Having a large sale of your 80's records TB ?? Mulgrave Trash n Treasure is on this weekend... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jakeyb77 Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 Where’s my Madonna album??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Tubularbells said: Hell would freeze first evil one.... I'll have some more contemporary LPs for sale to augment your limited collection! Well maybe some are older. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted November 2, 2019 Volunteer Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) On 22/10/2019 at 9:18 AM, Tubularbells said: Wow thank you fellow SNAers. For the record im hypersensitive to boomy bass and was already fully aware of the rooms 50hz peak many speakers ago. In fact It first raised its ugly head when I moved from my smaller ZU Souls & REL sub to the much bigger Zingali's and then even more so when I moved to the twin 15" JBL's. At one point I had the DEQX HDP 5 (with the Zingali's) and managed to get the room flat but reckon I fell into the rookie mistake of making it too flat which resulted in a lifeless sound that to me just wasn't enjoyable so that didn't last long at all. Perhaps I should have persisted with it a bit more... Regarding amps ive definitely heard a difference in bass response with the JBL's using different amplification. For example the Jeff Rowland Continuum had a tighter bass control than say the Audio Research Ref150 but as suggested I dont think the issue is with the amps ive used (well maybe just a tad) its really the room. For whatever reason (and im baffled as to how this can be) the Duntechs 4x 12" drivers energise the room much more than the 4 x 15" drivers in the JBL's. They certainly dig deeper and being sealed would have thought they would be more forgiving to room placement than the bass reflex design of the JBL's but its not the case at all. Im waiting on the GIK Acoustics engineer to get back to me with any suggestions. and have build a quick and dirty mockup of the room layout using there planning software. what about something crazy like this? Edited November 2, 2019 by Sir Sanders Zingmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: what about something crazy like this? Geez Trev seems like you hit the turps early this evening. Hell I cracked my first brew at 9:30 this morning and still can make no sense of your post 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted November 2, 2019 Volunteer Share Posted November 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, Tubularbells said: Geez Trev seems like you hit the turps early this evening. Hell I cracked my first brew at 9:30 this morning and still can make no sense of your post Sanders recommends trying speakers straddling the corner of a room Speaker placement is the biggest issue. Most audiophiles use symmetrical placement where the speakers are the same distance from walls and corners. This is the worst placement because both speakers will produce the same few resonances and they will be at double the magnitude than if the speakers were placed randomly in the room. These audiophiles also usually put the speakers on the short wall, which tends to force the speakers into corners, which also aggravates resonances and their magnitude. Putting the speakers on the long wall at different distances from corners is better than using the short wall. In extreme conditions, like we have in the hotel rooms we manufacturers must use at shows, I place the speakers on adjacent walls, straddling a corner. I assure that the speakers are at different distances from the walls and corners. This produces the most resonances at the smallest magnitudes and gives surprisingly good bass frequency response 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frednork Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: Sanders recommends trying speakers straddling the corner of a room Speaker placement is the biggest issue. Most audiophiles use symmetrical placement where the speakers are the same distance from walls and corners. This is the worst placement because both speakers will produce the same few resonances and they will be at double the magnitude than if the speakers were placed randomly in the room. These audiophiles also usually put the speakers on the short wall, which tends to force the speakers into corners, which also aggravates resonances and their magnitude. Putting the speakers on the long wall at different distances from corners is better than using the short wall. In extreme conditions, like we have in the hotel rooms we manufacturers must use at shows, I place the speakers on adjacent walls, straddling a corner. I assure that the speakers are at different distances from the walls and corners. This produces the most resonances at the smallest magnitudes and gives surprisingly good bass frequency response Makes a lot of sense for the bass but not sure it will be that great for imaging, but as they say, dont knock it till you tried it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 Regardless that image I posed is redundant now given the speakers are in a completely different position on the short wall with ample room to breath front and back. Just means I need to move everything else to accommodate. Next experiment is to move all record racks on the short wall behind the listening position as im hoping that might help with breaking up some room modes that occur on that wall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemarquis Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 Not sure about the toilet seat in the listening room 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted November 2, 2019 Volunteer Share Posted November 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, lemarquis said: Not sure about the toilet seat in the listening room The new speakers can produce the “brown note”. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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