High end integrated amps

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

13 hours ago, JukKluk2 said:

I was getting all hot under the collar about the Vitus until I saw a warning printed on the back of the amp saying,

 

"This is a true balanced amplifier. DO NOT under any circumstances connect (-) speaker output to ground."

 

The capitalization is how it appears on the amp. Am I correct in assuming that, like the Musical Fidelity M6 500i, this amp cannot be connected to, amongst others, Martin Logan speakers?

 

That would depend on the Earthing scheme of the Logans. You would need to contact them. If they are unearthed (which is likely), then I don't see a problem. 

[georgehifi]

1 hour ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

That would depend on the Earthing scheme of the Logans. You would need to contact them. If they are unearthed (which is likely), then I don't see a problem. 

 

Just measured my Logan Monoliths, the  - esl speaker terminal is at the same potential as the bass drivers  - speaker terminal.

If you are bi-amped with an amp that has it's - terminal as earth potential or close, there could be trouble, especially using Class-D amps on the ESL panel in this situation. 

 

I believe Quad is also at earth potential.

 

Cheers George

Edited May 26, 2017 by georgehifi

[blybo]

54 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

That would depend on the Earthing scheme of the Logans. You would need to contact them. If they are unearthed (which is likely), then I don't see a problem. 

 

They have a powered sub/bass module, most of which are class D plate amps and grounded.

[jdog]

On 5/23/2017 at 3:20 PM, Tubularbells said:

A year in and I'm still wrapt with my Continuum S2. I too was sceptical about class D until I heard this. For me this is the nicest sounding amp I have ever had from a long list of others that have passed by my listening room including Luxman 507, Pass Labs X150, Leben C600, Bladelius Thor2 and Line Magnetic 219A.

 

Completly non fatiguing and effortless at any volume however I'd still love to listen to a Mcintosh MA8000 some day.

I have the same amp  driving bw 803d for couple of years now and i like it a lot... Before JR, i had the mcintosh ma6900, it was good on moderate volumes, but lost the grip when cranked up high..powerguards would get a workout past 12 on volume dial..  jr does play with ear bleeding volumes with zero distortion, better on imaging, clarity,bass authority and optional phono stage is really good... it also runs completely cool, and is completely sealed so in theory no dust, or moisture can effect its operation..

[Kaynin]

25 minutes ago, jdog said:

I have the same amp  driving bw 803d for couple of years now and i like it a lot... Before JR, i had the mcintosh ma6900, it was good on moderate volumes, but lost the grip when cranked up high..powerguards would get a workout past 12 on volume dial..  jr does play with ear bleeding volumes with zero distortion, better on imaging, clarity,bass authority and optional phono stage is really good... it also runs completely cool, and is completely sealed so in theory no dust, or moisture can effect its operation..

 

 

[tubularbells]

24 minutes ago, jdog said:

I have the same amp  driving bw 803d for couple of years now and i like it a lot... Before JR, i had the mcintosh ma6900, it was good on moderate volumes, but lost the grip when cranked up high..powerguards would get a workout past 12 on volume dial..  jr does play with ear bleeding volumes with zero distortion, better on imaging, clarity,bass authority and optional phono stage is really good... it also runs completely cool, and is completely sealed so in theory no dust, or moisture can effect its operation..

 

Spot on @jdog This amp was a huge advantage coming from a Class A triode amp due to the reasons you mentioned along with the fact that there is no requirement for a pre-warm up due to it being always on. Must say though im not a huge fan of those speaker terminals JR likes to put on his gear.

 

Interesting comment regarding your experience with the McIntosh but suspect the MA8000 would not suffer the same issues.

[jdog]

1 hour ago, Tubularbells said:

 

Spot on @jdog This amp was a huge advantage coming from a Class A triode amp due to the reasons you mentioned along with the fact that there is no requirement for a pre-warm up due to it being always on. Must say though im not a huge fan of those speaker terminals JR likes to put on his gear.

 

Interesting comment regarding your experience with the McIntosh but suspect the MA8000 would not suffer the same issues.

 

yeah jr terminals are pita to connect, makes bare wire nearly impossible to connect without spades...  

 

ma6900 was still a good amp, 200w /channel with autoformers, more on the classic vintagy/tuby sound with very pretty and therapeutic vu meters.  (loudness button was my guilty pleasure haha)..  usually neighbors knocked on the door before the powerguards..  ma8000 with more grunt should definitely work better.. 

 

 

[georgehifi]

Sorry just have to say it, I have issues where something like this that has from a guess around $100 worth of parts (less chassis) can cost $9,500usd, and *** knows what Australian, probably close to or over $15,000aud and what you get is this inside.

No wonder a couple of the "marques" from yesteryear that made great huge/heavy massive linear amps in those days have sold their souls for the bigger dollar. The $$$ markup must be insane on these. Sure they've got a glitzy shoe box size case, but wow talk about selling ones self.    

 

Cheers George

Edited May 26, 2017 by georgehifi

[frednork]

This would add to the cost a bit https://vimeo.com/81139012

[georgehifi]

3 minutes ago, frednork said:

This would add to the cost a bit https://vimeo.com/81139012

 

Bit different to the one were looking at, hate to think the $$ on that one.

 

Cheers George

[k-k-k-kenny]

20 hours ago, georgehifi said:

Sorry just have to say it, I have issues where something like this that has from a guess around $100 worth of parts (less chassis) can cost $9,500usd, and *** knows what Australian, probably close to or over $15,000aud and what you get is this inside.

No wonder a couple of the "marques" from yesteryear that made great huge/heavy massive linear amps in those days have sold their souls for the bigger dollar. The $$$ markup must be insane on these. Sure they've got a glitzy shoe box size case, but wow talk about selling ones self.    

 

Cheers George

But you're overlooking the performance characteristics of that space shuttle quality non-resonant duralumin front panel, the semi-passive nobulators, the specially selected wound internal wiring etc etc, all of which more than justify the price.

By the way, George - what is it?

[JukKluk2]

Jeff Rowland Continuum 2 according to my image search, @k-k-k-kenny .

[joz]

@georgehifi 
So how much should the collective cost of be for an amp of that cost?
Does any manufacturer in your opinion do better with parts cost vs RRP?

Just askin!

 

[k-k-k-kenny]

Earle does. Of course he doesn't have a worldwide self-promotion machine to support, so that probably makes a difference.

Nor does he make "high end integrated" amplifiers of the sort that are commonly recognised as such. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by k-k-k-kenny

[k-k-k-kenny]

34 minutes ago, JukKluk2 said:

Jeff Rowland Continuum 2 according to my image search, @k-k-k-kenny .

As in "another space and time continuum"?  From the beyond ... Or as in "same as the last one, only more expensive"?

[georgehifi]

36 minutes ago, JukKluk2 said:

Jeff Rowland Continuum 2

 Yep.

 

Cheers George

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

21 minutes ago, joz said:

@georgehifi 
So how much should the collective cost of be for an amp of that cost?
Does any manufacturer in your opinion do better with parts cost vs RRP?

Just askin!

 

 

It's REALLY difficult to answer that question, without knowing the following:

 

* Where is the chassis manufactured?

* Where are the PCBs manufactured?

* Where is the unit assembled?

* What quantity is sold over the life of the product?

 

The answers to these questions can make huge differences to the final build cost of a product.

[Whites]

@georgehifi I would love you to build me one of those amps for $100, will even throw in a case of beer  

Edited May 27, 2017 by Whites

[warweary]

Aluminium is about 89 cents per pound aint it? 

 

 

[betty boop]

31 minutes ago, Whites said:

@georgehifi I would love you to build me one of those amps for $100, will even throw in a case of beer  

 

your lucky !  those cardas speaker binding posts the amp uses are on special...

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/cardas-cpbp-crs-binding-post-p-1393

 

normally $52 USD reduced down to $32.30 USD

 

need two of those which comes to $85 AUD maybe you will be lucky to get it shipped for $15 AUD to come under budget...otherwise that slab might come in handy for the postie 

 

ok its not quite the amplifier... but heck you've got a couple of binding posts for your $100 and it isn't quite their custom made version...but its a start 

 

.... anyways ... any suggestions for the OP ? or we lost him ... I see is selling his old creek...maybe onto something

[georgehifi]

43 minutes ago, Whites said:

@georgehifi I would love you to build me one of those amps for $100, will even throw in a case of beer  

 

If you had the circuit, I bet you could stretch it out to $150, if you had some electronic skills, and put it in a tin box or spend another $100 for one of these. 

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brand-New-Full-Aluminum-Enclosure-Chassis-Preamp-Case-Power-Amplifer-Box-/252675789845?hash=item3ad4a69415:g:fbwAAOSw2XFUav6s

 

Cheers George

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by georgehifi

[kukynas]

39 minutes ago, Whites said:

@georgehifi I would love you to build me one of those amps for $100, will even throw in a case of beer  

 

I would even fly over to pick one up ...

 

it seems to me like George doesn't like class D in general  but I must agree with him in certain aspects cuz....

class D technology supposed to make high-end audio more affordable, that's not always the case as we see and certain companies just took it as advantage to make even bigger profits...Aavik Acoustics U-300 with same plate amp and different input stage cost $30K ($45K AUD) , not sure how to vindicate its cost... 

 

in terms of cost @Zaphod Beeblebrox is right, without knowing basics it's hard to calculate anything meaningful, nevertheless that plate amp looks to me like Sanway X-PR02 or its version made for JR and others so couple of hundreds in worst case scenario 

 

regarding OPs question I think he already picked 3 amps to try so...

[georgehifi]

47 minutes ago, kukynas said:

nevertheless that plate amp looks to me like Sanway X-PR02 or its version made for JR

 

Well spotted, cost of which ready made in China would be peanuts, even with slight mods for JR.

http://discosoundequipment.sell.everychina.com/p-99120690-professional-audio-disco-sound-equipment-class-d-modules-for-active-speakers.html

 

There you go Whites you to can make one.

 

Cheers George

 

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by georgehifi

[kukynas]

yup...input stage with Lundahl tranies couple of hundreds, control PCBA with wiring and connectors peanuts, most expensive could be chassis with binning posts if made in US...

anyway, someone already mentioned earlier, it's up to us if we choose to support such products from these guys and if we are willing to pay their margins

[tubularbells]

On 2017-5-26 at 7:14 PM, georgehifi said:

Sorry just have to say it, I have issues where something like this that has from a guess around $100 worth of parts (less chassis) can cost $9,500usd, and *** knows what Australian, probably close to or over $15,000aud and what you get is this inside.

No wonder a couple of the "marques" from yesteryear that made great huge/heavy massive linear amps in those days have sold their souls for the bigger dollar. The $$$ markup must be insane on these. Sure they've got a glitzy shoe box size case, but wow talk about selling ones self.    

 

Cheers George

 

 

I get what you're saying about the potential for manufacturers to be taking the piss  (I really do) however if upon opening you were faced with a behemoth transformer and 100 shiny transistors per channel would it really make you feel any better?

 

For me the value proposition was:

 

• Doesnt need 1+hours after switch on to sound its best
• Doesn't cost me $20/hr to run due to inefficiencies in the design
• Runs cool (which is important in my non air conditioned environment)
• Gives me 800w into 4 ohms for when I want the band in my room
• Fully integrated saving me $$ on cables and rack space
• Not fussy with incoming voltage which can be anywhere between 85v - 265v AC

 

But most importantly it sounds fantastic beating any other amplifier I have had in my room from Class A to class A/B, valve,transistor or mosfet. That is what's important to me.

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Tubularbells
forgot something