Best Turntable Isolation Platform?

[andyr]

10 hours ago, BuzzzFuzzz said:

 

G'day @andyr - Thanks for your post mate, it actually made a lot of sense for me.

 

 

Delighted to be able to help, BF. 

 

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I have recently bought my first new TT, which has prompted my enquiries here.

 

Yes, your Rotel RP5300 should certainly be isolated from the bench or shelf it is sitting on.

 

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I've read through this whole thread, some of it made sense and some of it didn't.  I will re-read through and dig a little deeper into the points I don't understand.

I'm interested in the different resonance qualities of different materials, such as glass, wood, stone, and also the different characteristics of different types of wood and stone, and how they affect sound and each component, and how they sound with my equipment.

 

 

You're talking about a lifetime of study here, BF!    Re. glass - @muriwai, here, can confirm that it is not a good thing to use!  (He had a DVD player resting on a glass shelf which would freeze at certain points in his movies.  Since replacing that shelf unit with one he made - which uses bamboo floorboards as the shelf material - he no longer has this problem! 

 

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I actually picked up a cheap piece of sandstone today, and will pick up a few different types of wood next Monday.

 

 

Sandstone is good - as is slate.  Marble and granite not so good.  Why - the internal damping of the stone material.  (Hold a piece of these different materials in your hand and hit it with a hammer; listen to the different tones the material produces - the sandstone and slate will not ring like granite or marble does.)

 

Rest your Rotel RP5300 on the sandstone and put 4 squash balls under it (sitting in milk bottle tops, to stop them rolling around).  You should be able to hit the benchtop/shelf the sandstone & squash balls are resting on, whilst playing a record ... and you won't hear a thump through the speakers - showing how good an isolation platform it is! 

 

 

Andy

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by andyr

[BuzzzFuzzz]

3 minutes ago, andyr said:

Yes, your Rotel RP5300 should certainly be isolated from the bench or shelf it is sitting on.

Hey Andy, thank you once again.

 

I recently bought my first 'new' TT - A Music Hall MFF 2.2 - Hence my current research.

I've never thought/considered/attempted the correct platform until now.

 

I've recently moved interstate and now have a rental with floorboards, before that I had a concrete slab for over ten years, so I didn't really have to worry too much. 

 

I've set up the sandstone this morning, resting on foam until I decide and source proper feet.

The foam is on a large, thick piece of glass which is also cushioned with foam between it and a wooden table.

 

The first thing I had to do was reduce the bass, it sounds really warm and fat. 

Yesterday the TT was sitting on the glass and I thought it sounded a bit sharp.

 

One issue I've always had with checking sound is the time to re-arrange, I find it so much easier to discern any difference when able to simply switch between them.

 

Cheers.

Ant.

[MattyW]

Ive found the thick IKEA bamboo chopping boards to be rather excellent with some stick on rubber feet from the supermarket. I think I've 8x feet installed all up.

[Rockford]

I downloaded the Seismograph App used in the video and it was very interesting and gives me a good baseline. I put the iPad on the TT Platter and tapped the cabinet/floor etc.

 

 

[BuzzzFuzzz]

On 11/09/2019 at 8:55 AM, Rockford said:

A good demonstration, albeit about speakers.

 

 

 

 

Great video, making clear sense.

Way out of my league at $1,800 Aust.

 

I know ‘we get what we pay for’, but are there cheaper alternatives around?

I’m also interested in what other members use, and DIY jobs.

[A9X]

4 hours ago, BuzzzFuzzz said:

I know ‘we get what we pay for’, but are there cheaper alternatives around?

I’m also interested in what other members use, and DIY jobs.

All Townshend is doing is making a a mechanical filter. I saw one DIY unit yeas ago with a very rigid well damped board suspended on 3 small trolley inner tubes with all the valves connected to a common block so that their pressure is equalised. Shouldn't be too hard to clone for little $. Have another valve in the common block to add/release pressure to get it to tune properly.

 

Or use a large sandbox, which is what I used for years. My accelerometer showed nothing with an SP10 on it. Or win lotto and buy a vibraplane.

 

It's a well made video backed up with data. So why does it remind me of those PS Audio videos? Well, it's the complete bleedin opposite of them.

 

Last point; why would anyone ever use maple in a stand as it's the tonewood used in about 80% of all the electric guitars and basses ever made.

[magical]

On 19/10/2013 at 12:03 AM, myskylab said:

most use fine blasting sand for the sandbox,  at present I`ve got my TD160 on a slab of marble sitting on four pieces of 50mm x 30mm natural pumice stone works just fine

Good lord, you spend all this time & money on supports for a TD160?

Why not get a decent turntable first. 

I've had a customer upgrade the platter, had the plinth modded to fit a two motor drive system put on a Michell eng Techno weight amd this was for a Rega RP1. Madness

.

[magical]

On 11/09/2019 at 11:08 PM, wen said:

@BuzzzFuzzz, any change to the siting of your Turntable can change the sound, as you have found many things have been tried and claims made, i started with plywood tables with drawer knobs, then various skeletal frames, wood, aluminium 1 inch square sand filled, then steel 1 inch squared sand filled with screws for levelling, on my current Turntable Rega Planar 2 (1976 model) i have removed the original feet and screwed a piece of slate which has a layer of silicon between it and the Turntable and used squash balls as feet, i enjoy the sound of the current setup, had a Linn Sondek prior, not missing it, this setup might be better but unless you do a side by side test?

A linn LP 12 can sound awful if it goes out of adjustment. If properly set up it will crap on a plannar 2. Thats probably your problem. Get somthing decent like a Gyrodec SE anf simplify your life.

[myskylab]

5 hours ago, magical said:

Good lord, you spend all this time & money on supports for a TD160?

Why not get a decent turntable first. 

I've had a customer upgrade the platter, had the plinth modded to fit a two motor drive system put on a Michell eng Techno weight amd this was for a Rega RP1. Madness

.

@magical some people like what they use and may have a few turntables, they may just like to tinker , so if you're got nothing of use to add to this topic except for your lack of wit go troll else where. Should have paid more attention to your post, you work in the industry and this is your way of dealing with people not a great sales pitch.  

Edited September 21, 2019 by myskylab

[wen]

@magical, looked at buying a Gyrodec for an upgrade, the buyer was honest enough to say it was not worth the money he was asking compared to what i had, seems easy for some people to bag you out

[magical]

12 hours ago, wen said:

@magical, looked at buying a Gyrodec for an upgrade, the buyer was honest enough to say it was not worth the money he was asking compared to what i had, seems easy for some people to bag you out

Really? Did he post the price at way to much & admitted it? I take you mean the seller said it wasn't with it. If I was selling my full Gyro with technoarm(whick I really love) I'd price it reasonably, and probably offer to go to the buyers place to reset the balance. Gyro's must be rebalanced ever time there are moved. 

[wen]

@magical, it's amazing when two people have an honest conversation about what one person is after, verses what one is selling, with an agreed outcome, that someone who was not party to any of it can make 

(mis)informed comments, hard to judge people isn't it, not!

[magical]

On 10/09/2019 at 9:17 PM, Rockford said:

I went the Ebay and Off-cut route. 8 Aluminium 'Isolation Feet' from Ebay for about $50. Two kitchen stone benchtop offcuts cut to size for $50. About 30Kg of weight in them.

 

 

That certainly look like the the clearaudio tt supplied with the virtuoso wood relable as Marantz, am I right. Great sounding tt and very good cartrige. As far as MM cartridges go, thats amoung the best, l measured its tracking ability and its great, better than the Ortofon 2m blk,  but not as detailed. 

The only thing to complain about is no cover but as I remember, at $2 1/2 hard to do better. The Rega rp8 is better but a lot more money. I think the support should work well, but keep a level gague out to make sure it set up properly. 

The magnetic anti skate is a bit weird, less is best inmy experience. 

The one big problem is, if you damage the stylus, marantz say we don't sell the cartridge as a replacement, buy a new turntable. 

 

I was outraged by this on behalf of my customer!  Researching this I  found Kedcorp in sydney( aust distributors of clearaudio sell the same Virtuoso wood seperatly for about $1200. Important infomation.

I reckon you've made a good call. 

Brett. 

 

[Rockford]

15 hours ago, magical said:

That certainly look like the the clearaudio tt supplied with the virtuoso wood relable as Marantz, am I right. Great sounding tt and very good cartrige. As far as MM cartridges go, thats amoung the best, l measured its tracking ability and its great, better than the Ortofon 2m blk,  but not as detailed. 

The only thing to complain about is no cover but as I remember, at $2 1/2 hard to do better. The Rega rp8 is better but a lot more money. I think the support should work well, but keep a level gague out to make sure it set up properly. 

The magnetic anti skate is a bit weird, less is best inmy experience. 

The one big problem is, if you damage the stylus, marantz say we don't sell the cartridge as a replacement, buy a new turntable. 

 

I was outraged by this on behalf of my customer!  Researching this I  found Kedcorp in sydney( aust distributors of clearaudio sell the same Virtuoso wood seperatly for about $1200. Important infomation.

I reckon you've made a good call. 

Brett. 

 

Yes you are right in regards to Clearaudio, a lot of people have made that connection.  Yes very happy with the cartridge, probably have it a bit light at the moment, need to work on it some more.

 

Cover would have been nice, but I am looking into a perspex custom made one which will be around $150 I think so not too bad in the scheme of things.

 

I think the stylus is re-badged also as there a number of Youtube videos discussing how to replace them and what with.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/marantz-tt-15s1-need-a-new-stylus.699709/

 

Happy with it so far, only irks are the motor isolation is a bit clunky - basically centred through a hole in the plinth which always tends to move a bit and come into contact with the plinth after a while.  It also doesn't have a very nice lowering action which is quite hard to control consistently.

 

 

 

[magical]

1 hour ago, Rockford said:

Yes you are right in regards to Clearaudio, a lot of people have made that connection.  Yes very happy with the cartridge, probably have it a bit light at the moment, need to work on it some more.

 

Cover would have been nice, but I am looking into a perspex custom made one which will be around $150 I think so not too bad in the scheme of things.

 

I think the stylus is re-badged also as there a number of Youtube videos discussing how to replace them and what with.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/marantz-tt-15s1-need-a-new-stylus.699709/

 

Happy with it so far, only irks are the motor isolation is a bit clunky - basically centred through a hole in the plinth which always tends to move a bit and come into contact with the plinth after a while.  It also doesn't have a very nice lowering action which is quite hard to control consistently.

 

 

 

Ifound a bunch of cork drinks costers and put one under the detached motor of my gyrodec. The motor was more stable and its a cheap experiment. 

[wen]

On 21/09/2019 at 5:42 AM, magical said:

Get somthing decent like a Gyrodec SE anf simplify your life.

 

1 hour ago, magical said:

Ifound a bunch of cork drinks costers and put one under the detached motor of my gyrodec. The motor was more stable and its a cheap experiment.

such simplicity for a decent deck

[BuzzzFuzzz]

G'day lads.

 

Another question for you.

I have isolated my TT temporarily with cut sections of pool noodles under a sandstone slab, which is then sitting on a large garden paver.

There is no sound coming through the speakers when tapping on the paver.

 

I was using the method of having the stylus resting on a stationary record, and I noticed that when I turned the volume right up, near 3/4, I had a throbbing of the drivers.

 

Can anyone please help with what my issue is here?  Is this normal, or feedback, or isolation, or impedance related??

 

Thanks.

Ant.

[blybo]

On 22/09/2019 at 5:43 PM, Rockford said:

Happy with it so far, only irks are the motor isolation is a bit clunky - basically centred through a hole in the plinth which always tends to move a bit and come into contact with the plinth after a while.  It also doesn't have a very nice lowering action which is quite hard to control consistently.

 

 

 

I found my motor moved a little bit for a week or so then settled down, hasn't moved in months. I also had a weird shaking of the rubber belt on start up but that soon disappeared too. The tonearm does drop faster than my previous Project tables, but I prefer that and it doesn't drop too heavily on records.

[magical]

On 22/09/2019 at 5:43 PM, Rockford said:

Yes you are right in regards to Clearaudio, a lot of people have made that connection.  Yes very happy with the cartridge, probably have it a bit light at the moment, need to work on it some more.

 

Cover would have been nice, but I am looking into a perspex custom made one which will be around $150 I think so not too bad in the scheme of things.

 

I think the stylus is re-badged also as there a number of Youtube videos discussing how to replace them and what with.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/marantz-tt-15s1-need-a-new-stylus.699709/

 

Happy with it so far, only irks are the motor isolation is a bit clunky - basically centred through a hole in the plinth which always tends to move a bit and come into contact with the plinth after a while.  It also doesn't have a very nice lowering action which is quite hard to control consistently.

 

 

 

$150 for a custom cover doesn't sound unreasonable. With regard to the stylus weight, a little bit more is better than a little bit less. To light, particularly with very dynamic recordings can cause skipping, damaging the high parts of the groove, not good. 

Trick for the motor, go to you local cookware shop they'll probably have sets of cork drink coasters.  Put one under the motor (you can remove the supplied rubber feet) and not only will it stop any drift on the motor, cork is an exelent isolation material, it is great at turning movement into heat, and will (slightly) improve your sound!. 

Brett.

[Chigurh]

Has anyone tried the Pro-Ject Ground-It E isolation platform. It's around $250. I'm thinking of getting one for my Clearaudio Concept.

[Hydrology]

15 minutes ago, Chigurh said:

Has anyone tried the Pro-Ject Ground-It E isolation platform. It's around $250. I'm thinking of getting one for my Clearaudio Concept.

I have the deluxe model which came with my RPM10.1. To be honest I don't think it has made that much of a difference, albeit the TT looks more impressive on it! I can still tap the Ground-It lightly and hear feedback through the speakers.

Considering something down the line such as the IsoAcoustics/ButcherBlocks platforms, or something from HRS.

[Chigurh]

9 minutes ago, Hydrology said:

I can still tap the Ground-It lightly and hear feedback through the speakers.

What happens if you tap the shelf that the Ground-It is sitting on, compared to the turntable sitting directly on the shelf without the Ground-It?

[Hydrology]

42 minutes ago, Chigurh said:

What happens if you tap the shelf that the Ground-It is sitting on, compared to the turntable sitting directly on the shelf without the Ground-It?

Never tried it without for the simple reason that it comes with the deck. Next time Im taking the system apart I'll have a crack.

[Bert van Zyulen]

Old/Vintage TT's do have internal spring/foam insets damping and that does work well if the foam is still "Fresh"

One of the things I do when refurbishing/repairing these golden Oldies is put new foam inside the springs

This dampens the spring action just like a coil-over!

The new style TT's are rigid and do need external damping to get the best out of them!

Very interesting solutions have been shared!

I enjoy this tread very much due to this!

[Warren Jones]

Here is my solution. My TT is heavy at about 20kg but you could put a lighter TT on a heavy block with springs underneath the block.

 

4 set of cheap eBay springs sitting under plywood. I set the springs so they are 50% compressed by removing individual springs.

 

Measurement performed with LP spinning on an unmodulated groove. Sweep was done with REW through the speakers at a very high level, hearing protection needed.

 

Here are the measurements. Blue trace is with springs bypassed, Red trace is with springs loaded at 50%, Green trace is with springs loaded 50% with a very small amount of soft foam just touching each spring to dampen resonance.

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Warren Jones