Once Analog Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I have always thought the best position for a turntable is a wall mount, regardless of a timber or concrete floor. However, in a situation of a cabinet mount, either a Granite/Marble or even MDF will suffice. Any advice from SNA members appreciated. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) I have always thought the best position for a turntable is a wall mount, regardless of a timber or concrete floor. However, in a situation of a cabinet mount, either a Granite/Marble or even MDF will suffice. Any advice from SNA members appreciated. Vince Depends on the TT, IMO, Vince. Different "rules" for sprung TTs, compared to solid-plinth TTs. The latter, I suggest, will definitely be improved by being placed on an isolation platform - whether it's a simple DIY one (a slab of slate on squash balls) or a sophisticated one - such as a Vibraplane or a Minus-K. Sprung TTs - like my 'SkeletaLinn' or an LP12 - may not respond so well to one of these isolation platforms ... so a wall-shelf is best, IMO. Regards, Andy Edited October 18, 2013 by andyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Hi Vince, My sprung Hybrid is mounted on a Rega wall bracket sitting on cones/cups combined with a Marble base which works a treat! (Hybrid on a hybrid mount) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Analog Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 Hi Vince, My sprung Hybrid is mounted on a Rega wall bracket sitting on cones/cups combined with a Marble base which works a treat! (Hybrid on a hybrid mount) Thank you, and beautiful looking plinth, please tell us more. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Analog Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 Depends on the TT, IMO, Vince. Different "rules" for sprung TTs, compared to solid-plinth TTs. The latter, I suggest, will definitely be improved by being placed on an isolation platform - whether it's a simple DIY one (a slab of slate on squash balls) or a sophisticated one - such as a Vibraplane or a Minus-K. Sprung TTs - like my 'SkeletaLinn' or an LP12 - may not respond so well to one of these isolation platforms ... so a wall-shelf is best, IMO. Regards, Andy Andy,Technical, a different Platform for suspended and none suspended turntables? vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetube Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Andy, Technical, a different Platform for suspended and none suspended turntables? vince quite simple Vince. the suspended table have it own isolation from the ground at say 10hz or less and the non suspended table has non , not all turntable benefit from suspended from the floor to sound good. for my many idler tables i don't use any springies kind of thing's to isolate the table from the floor . just solid feet's . Duc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Thank you, and beautiful looking plinth, please tell us more. Vince Excuse crappy phone photo - I had this custom rig rebuilt and had the coned feet fitted. After disposing of my old Hot Rodded Rega I needed a solid base with the 4 feet versus 3 cups scenario of the bracket so decided I needed a solid platform after trying out a 5 ply that left me feeling it was too flimsy. I managed to snaffle this marble(?) piece off the same guy when I expressed concerns regarding the 5 ply. Something along the lines of - "hang on, I've got this lovely piece just sitting underneath my drill press!" Glued non-slip rubber mesh matting underneath for added security and isolation and also glued cups to the platform for easier alignment with the cone feet. Mounted on a brick wall is a nice bonus too! Cheers, Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Analog Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 quite simple Vince. the suspended table have it own isolation from the ground at say 10hz or less and the non suspended table has non , not all turntable benefit from suspended from the floor to sound good. for my many idler tables i don't use any springies kind of thing's to isolate the table from the floor . just solid feet's . Duc Duc,In that case, what differences is there in performance with a platform with no resonances? Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Andy, Technical, a different Platform for suspended and none suspended turntables? vince Weeeell, Vince - this is just my logical train of thought : a solid-plinth TT has no isolation from terrestrial vibrations ... or any vibrations hitting the benchtop it is sitting on. a Vibraplane / Minus-K / etc. gives very effective isolation from vibrations - including terrestrial (very low Hz!) vibrations. They use them on electron microscopes (which need to have stable base, to do their stuff). so it will improve any solid-plinth TT by isolating it from these LF terrestrial vibrations - and also from vibrations induced into the bench it is sitting on, by sound waves from the bass drivers. in contrast, in a sprung TT, the springs give good isolation from vibrations above about 5Hz (AIUI). but the springs are not effective below 5Hz. therefore, in theory an isolation platform should be good for a sprung TT as well ... but some people say the fact that it is, in effect, another "spring" means that its spring-rate will interfere with the spring rate of the TT springs - so it's not a good idea. this seems to me to be BS ... but the only way to find out is to try out a Vibraplane/Minus K ... and I don't think they offer home trials! Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Analog Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 Weeeell, Vince - this is just my logical train of thought : a solid-plinth TT has no isolation from terrestrial vibrations ... or any vibrations hitting the benchtop it is sitting on. a Vibraplane / Minus-K / etc. gives very effective isolation from vibrations - including terrestrial (very low Hz!) vibrations. They use them on electron microscopes (which need to have stable base, to do their stuff). so it will improve any solid-plinth TT by isolating it from these LF terrestrial vibrations - and also from vibrations induced into the bench it is sitting on, by sound waves from the bass drivers. in contrast, in a sprung TT, the springs give good isolation from vibrations above about 5Hz (AIUI). but the springs are not effective below 5Hz. therefore, in theory an isolation platform should be good for a sprung TT as well ... but some people say the fact that it is, in effect, another "spring" means that its spring-rate will interfere with the spring rate of the TT springs - so it's not a good idea. this seems to me to be BS ... but the only way to find out is to try out a Vibraplane/Minus K ... and I don't think they offer home trials! Regards, Andy Logical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willco Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) I use the Minus K Base and their Stand-- absolutely first rate highly recommended--there is an Aus distributor-- get a home trial you will NOT send them back I'll post pics of my setup shortly--I use the 48 KG range Base with a Silestone platform( available cut to size from any local Kitchen cabinet supplier) you need to specify the weight you have TT/ platform when ordering the Minus K setup Willco Edited October 18, 2013 by Willco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Analog Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 I'll post pics of my setup shortly Willco Waiting for the pictures. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetube Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Duc, In that case, what differences is there in performance with a platform with no resonances? Vince that should be good . to be frank .any turntable will have some if not all benefit from good isolating platform . i do use some kind of this my self hence the solid feet's which i also use in conjunction .reason is there is always an airborne around and that cause the table or the tonearm to vibrate , this is my take on this subject. Duc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Analog Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 that should be good . to be frank .any turntable will have some if not all benefit from good isolating platform . i do use some kind of this my self hence the solid feet's which i also use in conjunction .reason is there is always an airborne around and that cause the table or the tonearm to vibrate , this is my take on this subject. Duc In my experience, regardless of turntable design, a good isolation platform will not hamper performance! Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_F Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 IME with mass loaded plinths, the feet can have more impact than the platform on which the TT sits on. The feet are the conduit, or the direct link to the TT and platform. Imagine if the TT was suspended from above on cables for example, and was not on a platform at all, then the conduit is broken. Now then imagine if you had feet that had the same effect as no feet at all, then the shelf or platform becomes insignificant? IMHO, the real dark art of turntables is decoupling. I think springs are the most under developed TT and hi-fi isolation device in audiophool land. There is I believe some sort of formula for working out the correct spring size and tension for achieving the required isolation / decoupling effect, but I have no idea what it is. It would be great if anybody who is using springs under their mass loaded plinths, or any components, could chime in and provide some insight?? In regard to Thorens, LP12's and Rega TT's, I found the best platform was hexalite board with Vibrapods placed between the hexalite and TT shelf, with the TT sitting directly on the hexalite. The hexalite is super strong and super light and does not store energy therefore these suspended TT's stay lively and open sounding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myskylab Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I know kids love to play in the sand pit, so why not let your T/T play on the sand box?? http://web.aanet.com.au/tobes/sandbox/sandbox.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidsss Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I know kids love to play in the sand pit, so why not let your T/T play on the sand box?? http://web.aanet.com.au/tobes/sandbox/sandbox.htm Indeed, it's what I do. TNT have good plans for one of these. DS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blk plastic Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Hi flemo, Is it possible to supply more info/photos on the hexalite material? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I use the Minus K Base and their Stand-- absolutely first rate highly recommended--there is an Aus distributor-- get a home trial you will NOT send them back With what TT, Willco? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal beat Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) I have heard that the wall mount works extreme well, however impractical for a lot of people- myself included. Compression Springs work extremely well on my high mass TW Acustik turntable. Does this sound better than Minus K platform - no idea but for less than $100 compressions springs are the bargin of the century. Hopefully one day I will get a demo of the Minus K with my TW table against my compression springs, but given the tweaky nature of the Minus K in no hurry at this point. The springs have worked better than dedicated SRA isolation table as well as Stillpoint Ultra's. My two Japanese DD tables also use compression spring suspension. the Exclusive P3 sounded better by itself than being supported by Stillpoints. The P3 has a very sophisticated suspension - triple isolation (oil-damping + spring + rubber) - resonant frequency of the isolation is set as 5Hz Edited October 19, 2013 by turntable 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Clive I like the mesh mating addition You appear to be a belt AND braces bloke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htm_1968 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 As a long time LP12 user I started out using a Sound Organisation modular racks and later a Mana Table before graduating to a wall shelf and soundtop. Pretty much this was as good as I could get things at the time. Sadly, the mana is really, really ugly (think box of girders ugly) so it was constant issue for my better half (as were the Sound Organisation and Mana Racks and later a soundstyle rack, all of which helped to define "Oil Rig Chique". Only good if your other half is an apprentice blacksmith who wants to bring her work home, otherwise -13454570 points on the WAF-o-meter. The trampolin base for the LP12 does not work very well with Mana IME. The more recent variant on the trampolin that comes with the Urika has similar issues. We therefore put the LP12 on the top level of of a stack of Fraim. Looks good, sounds great, but sadly costs a bomb for each shelf.....does score several hundred thousand points on the WAF-o-meter though...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Clive I like the mesh mating addition You appear to be a belt AND braces bloke Thanks, interesting reading here - some comments seem to confirm my success with my setup as having a sprung rig and having a rigid platform mounted on a wall shelf and flemo was on the money re.the decoupling issue with the feet. This was why I had the cone & cup set-up( only the very tip of a few mm has any contact with platform) and the mesh rubber underneath also would help decouple from the wall bracket. The result for me is uncoloured resonant free sound! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willco Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 With what TT, Willco? Andy Simon Yorke W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willco Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 As a long time LP12 user I started out using a Sound Organisation modular racks and later a Mana Table before graduating to a wall shelf and soundtop. Pretty much this was as good as I could get things at the time. Sadly, the mana is really, really ugly (think box of girders ugly) so it was constant issue for my better half (as were the Sound Organisation and Mana Racks and later a soundstyle rack, all of which helped to define "Oil Rig Chique". Only good if your other half is an apprentice blacksmith who wants to bring her work home, otherwise -13454570 points on the WAF-o-meter. The trampolin base for the LP12 does not work very well with Mana IME. The more recent variant on the trampolin that comes with the Urika has similar issues. We therefore put the LP12 on the top level of of a stack of Fraim. Looks good, sounds great, but sadly costs a bomb for each shelf.....does score several hundred thousand points on the WAF-o-meter though...... Yoh, Interesting what you found to work-- I have a good friend( read nutty Linnie!) in Cairns with the full house as yours--LP12 plus Klimax Amps/Aktiv 350s/ etc/etc--he put the LP12 on his Naim Frame I sold him my Mana stand --he scoffed at it but I convinced him to try it with the TT. The Lp12 has remained on the Mana for the last 3 years--the Fraims( he has two) have sufficed for the Electronics. Each to their own--but I tend to agree with him on this placement --if it did'nt work in your setup -that's fine you are the sole judge in your domain Good one! Willco PS I've had a Sound Org stand as well-- the Mana was better for the Linn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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