Stereophilus Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 13 hours ago, dbastin said: Stereophilius has an almost identical set up to you with Antipodes CX instead of Zenith. He even had ATC speakers until recently. Interestingly, he found changing ethernet cables to the endpoint made a difference only on rare occasions. Have you found this? @TerryO has been in contact with me a few times recently to discuss his MolaMola setup. I haven't heard the PhoenixNet yet. Maybe someday... My previous speakers were PMC rather than ATC. Similar philosophy, but somewhat different implementations. I personally have not ever heard huge differences when changing network cables or components. I did hear subtle differences between ER, Bonn N8 and PP Quad when @Assisi visited. Nothing I would call dramatic. Based on my experiences I have preferred to focus my spending further up the chain, and just opportunistically tweak and experiment on the network side. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyajima Smith Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Just received 2 more sets Telegaertner M12 gold switch....ready for rock and roll this weekend. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyajima Smith Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Get ready for QUAD M12 gold Switches dream , will report very soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrology Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 19 hours ago, dbastin said: When do you receive the PhoenixNet? That was a somewhat interesting review. I think reviewers need to get past the "yes this switch is better than nothing or a crap IT switch" which is now pretty common knowledge (although some still dont believe it). A comparison with a similar grade switch would be more informative. It is interesting the reviewer said the EtherRegen is not much better than Bonn 8 when others have concluded ER is similar to Melco. Melco and PhoenixNET would be a worthwhile comparison and similar price point. Should have it here Tuesday/Wednesday - will leave it plugged in for about a week before I actively incorporate it into the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbastin Posted April 9, 2021 Author Share Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) On 08/04/2021 at 10:41 AM, Hydrology said: Great review for those interested:- https://www.fairaudio.de/test/innuos-phoenixnet-audiophiler-netzwerk-switch/?fbclid=IwAR2plNQnuAEOYVMHZIIy7swsTyaUfpaVqCsMisJUElnwJ0H0t_pxgrFag8A I was just looking at the marketing on the website ... https://innuos.com/phoenixnet/ "Design is focused on 4 areas: Noise, Clock, Power and Vibration:" Its all good stuff except I cant see "Massive individual Network Isolation Transformers to further isolate from noise coming from router or connected devices" Those look a quite common size from the photo in the review. Also cant see "EMI absorption at the right places so that interference produced can be captured before influencing other components." And it does not appear the PCB is designed with galvanic isolation. So the key advantages, which are quite strong points, are the clock, the power supplies (built in) and "Network switch chip with no internal switching regulators. All 3 independent voltages supplied by internal Statement-grade linear power supply with independent ultra-low noise regulation." I dont know if they are linear regulators like used by EtherRegen (Linear Technology LT3045 and LT3042) and JCAT LPS (LT3045). Edited April 9, 2021 by dbastin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrology Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, dbastin said: I was just looking at the marketing on the website ... https://innuos.com/phoenixnet/ "Design is focused on 4 areas: Noise, Clock, Power and Vibration:" Its all good stuff except I cant see "Massive individual Network Isolation Transformers to further isolate from noise coming from router or connected devices" Those look a quite common size from the photo in the review. Also cant see "EMI absorption at the right places so that interference produced can be captured before influencing other components." And it does not appear the PCB is designed with galvanic isolation. So the key advantages, which are quite stron points, are the clock, the power supplies (built in) and "Network switch chip with no internal switching regulators. All 3 independent voltages supplied by internal Statement-grade linear power supply with independent ultra-low noise regulation." I dont know if they are linear regulators like used by EtherRegen (Linear Technology LT3045 and LT3042) and JCAT LPS (LT3045 ultra low-noise linear voltage regulators). Perhaps the claims they make are not as "massive" as other brands competing in the same field, but maybe they are, relative to a $150 switch? Maybe they don't have to be - maybe they have found a design that works and the marketing gurus are fluffing out the blurb as we would expect them to. Either way, not that bothered, just looking for the opportunity to try it for myself as I have with the English Electric switch and a multitude of various networking cables. I think the Renolabs product is also a very interesting solution that offers fantastic isolation thanks to those huge chassis billets! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryO Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Hydrology said: Perhaps the claims they make are not as "massive" as other brands competing in the same field, but maybe they are, relative to a $150 switch? Maybe they don't have to be - maybe they have found a design that works and the marketing gurus are fluffing out the blurb as we would expect them to. Either way, not that bothered, just looking for the opportunity to try it for myself as I have with the English Electric switch and a multitude of various networking cables. I think the Renolabs product is also a very interesting solution that offers fantastic isolation thanks to those huge chassis billets! Hi Mark, Given what I have experienced this week I reckon once your PheonixNet is run in properly you will be very happy with what it does to improve sq in your system. cheers, Terry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbastin Posted April 18, 2021 Author Share Posted April 18, 2021 (edited) In addition to the above experience, I also received a few other upgrades. The lesson has been, the other upgrades have certainly challenged the value of adding and extra switch. For instance, the Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Ref ethernet cable can be grounded. I upgraded from the basic ground wire to High Def ground wire and it gave a benefit similar to an extra EtherRegen (as 5th switch in the chain). The extra cost of High Def ground wire is US$200 compared to 4-5 times that cost for ER and power supply. That HD ground is in a strategic location on the very last ethernet cable before the endpoint. Some extra upgraded fuses were also comparatively very good bang for buck. Having said that, I upgraded the power cord to the power supply for the 2 Gigafoiis and the extra rrp cost of the power cord was less bang for buck than the extra ER. We gotta keep perspective. Edited April 18, 2021 by dbastin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niktech Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) Post 199 and 203 here is interesting: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/value-of-audiophile-network-switches/129611/211 Same internals, different case. Applies to Nuprime, Bon8, English Electric8 . I'm sure there are others. Perhaps Fidelizers switch too. The swtich was also offered to Alex Crespi (Uptone) as well, but he declined. Source: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/62588-uptone-ether-regen-english-electric-8switch-comparison/ Cheers Edited April 28, 2021 by Niktech 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbastin Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 Well, like Paul McGowan but I am surprised about what he says here ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niktech Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) Yes, that is surprising. I guess it is easy for anyone to become cynical of any product, including a switch that is ear marked audiophile, when only a few dollars in parts is swapped in to a $30 board, yet a premium price is charged for the product. This though shouldn't detract from the cutting edge work that Alex Crespi and John Swenson have done in terms of the etheregen, and the other products they've designed. I'm actually still using a USB regen in my system from his first production run back in ~2015., and may purchase an Etheregen in the future. Edit: Depending on whether I stick with Quobuz.... Cheers I Edited April 28, 2021 by Niktech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbastin Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Niktech said: Depending on whether I stick with Quobuz.... It is worth considering if your system is connected to the network for any purpose ... the network will still put noise in your system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assisi Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 22 hours ago, dbastin said: Well, like Paul McGowan but I am surprised about what he says here ... I am some one who has read most of McGowan's posts over many years and mostly often I am in agreement with his positions on various matters. Yet he has been negative about some matters until he developed and PS audio had developed and had a product that his company was selling. An example are preamplifiers. I won't be surprise if one day PS Audio has network products for sale and he spriuks the products in his inimitable style. John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepthought Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 Paul is liable to change his mind on things. I still remember the whole fuss when he acknowledged that adding a preamp into a system was superior to a DAC direct to the amp'. After years of saying it wasn't. He is passionate and has a lot of experience but he's just a human like the rest of us. So he paints himself into corners on issues and then once in a while has to wait for the paint to dry and then steps out of the corner... But at least he admits it and doesn't dig his heels in further out of pride I guess it's a good lesson for us all. Never be 100% certain of anything you state as fact. And I'm not 100% certain about the statement that I just made. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notchasingrainbows Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) Finally the JS PC Audio HFS1155 arrived after about 1.5 months in the mail ! Opened the unit, to install butyl rubber on the top cover and oyaide mwa-010 tape on top of the switch area. a mandatory move, a shunmook mpingo disc on top of the steel plate of the torodial transformer of the switch’s linear power supply section. Took care of the switch’s isolation by putting yamamoto soundcraft ebony spikes, and double panzerholz platforms. Special ordered the switch with upgraded OCXO clock, copper shield, 220v AC, and AMR Gold Fuse. last but not least, also ordered their ethernet noise reducer plug with extra grounding cable can be connected to the plug for an extra grounding point. so far a good improvement coming from a single switch setup (nuprime omnia sw8 with LPSU). I can hear more air, soundstage is wider left to right , front to back. Better separation between instruments. Music sounds slower, smoother but with lots of details. Only had a couple hours on the switch, will report back in a couple of days. Edited May 10, 2021 by notchasingrainbow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccuTidal Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 On 09/04/2021 at 7:42 AM, Miyajima Smith said: Just received 2 more sets Telegaertner M12 gold switch....ready for rock and roll this weekend. I think I know who you truly are. An OZ distributor for Kondo (Japanese) and Kaiser. Are you also an importer for M12 switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereophilus Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 18 hours ago, AccuMagi said: I think I know who you truly are. An OZ distributor for Kondo (Japanese) and Kaiser. Are you also an importer for M12 switch? If there was a plot, it just thickened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assisi Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) As mentioned in my post in early April I acquired a Waversa WRouter. At the same time my ROON ready Weiss DSP 502 went away on loan for demonstration purposes elsewhere. Last week I received a parcel with a Waversa WCore2 and another Weiss DSP 502. I put the Weiss in the system and realised how much I had missed the benefit of it over the past several weeks. Then I replaced the Rhein Z1 with the Core 2. Initially I was disappointed with the change. I was almost tempted to unpack the Rhein Z1 and put it back. I preserved. After a couple of hours there was a big positive change. The Core2 started to settle and really strut its stuff and the benefit became very obvious. Now after four days the improvement has become very serious indeed. I am one very happy chappy. Some of the improvement would be due to the DSP also settling in as it was brand new. Both Waversas have Ethernet sockets. The WRouter with two banks of four. One bank battery powered. The WCore with only one bank of four battery powered. The outcome from the battery power especially with the Wrouter is very special. At the system end there are now 8 switches. Maybe too many but I have not got around to trying any other configuration setup. Much too busy enjoying the listening and I believe in letting things settle even more. I also have not explored any features of either Waversa yet. Interestingly I have also now connected my NBN router via optical using a Sonore Opticalmodule going to the FMC in the Renolabs switch. The NBN router and the Sonore are now powered from a LPS. The Sonore and the Renolabs have Startech FMC connected by single mode 20 mt cable with 10db attenuators on one side. My perspective is that there is some benefit from this arrangement rather than the copper ethernet connection even with files played from the Naim Uniticore. I do not know why. I never think that with audio that there is an end game. However, I think that with the setup that I now have there is nothing significant that I envisage that I can do at this time. Just some small tinkering. Things are just wonderful. John Edited June 8, 2021 by Assisi 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 @Assisi things never remain static with you! Endgame?? Sounds so terminal !! Sure you'll come up with something, look forward to catching up and hearing in it's new guise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbastin Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 Let's be clear about the level of John @Assisi's systems front end. From what I can gather ... Waversa WCore 2.0 $12k Waversa WRouter $7k Wiess DAC $14k Wiess DSP $14k Total $47k ... before the cost of switches, cables, LPSs. He is a very forunate guy! I didn't realise WCore 2.0 contains a switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccuTidal Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Wow…! $47k just for audio networking…! I’d love a pair of speakers at that same investment. Still working on it though…. I surely need finding a better job…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbastin Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, AccuMagi said: just for audio networking Um, that includes server, router, DAC and DSP processor, not just networking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 28 minutes ago, dbastin said: Let's be clear about the level of John @Assisi's systems front end. From what I can gather ... Waversa WCore 2.0 $12k Waversa WRouter $7k Wiess DAC $14k Wiess DSP $14k Total $47k ... before the cost of switches, cables, LPSs. He is a very forunate guy! I didn't realise WCore 2.0 contains a switch. But he still needs a Turntable and analog gear! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccuTidal Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 11 hours ago, evil c said: But he still needs a Turntable and analog gear! To get that same sonic performance, $47k for analogue setup is inadequate... Me duck for cover. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, AccuMagi said: To get that same sonic performance, $47k for analogue setup is inadequate... Me duck for cover. I hereby challenge @Assisi to bring his digital arsenal to evil springs, and we can compare against an analog rig worth around half that. Then let the critics decide! Disclaimer: Big fan and owner of the Renolabs switch DBT will be difficult!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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