17 hours ago, El Tel said:

Two days of humping furniture around and ruining my back, disconnecting stuff, cleaning everything, reconnecting a minimal system for the interim has got to this point:

 

Now I'm off to flex my private health card with the chiro. At least I'm ready for Christian again.

If you must succumb to shaggers back, there are other ways to do it!

 

Good luck with the re-orientation and reno. It makes me tired even thinking about someone else doing it.

I'm probably going to portion the partial 5.1 kit up, and pull the bundle deal currently in the classifieds, to improve the chances of it going. Decided to run the CM5 bookshelf pair up on the McIntosh to check they're ok before being sold.

 

I'm having second thoughts now. These are pretty bloody good for such small boxes and I'm not noticing much missing out of the bottom-end; surprisingly revealing.

 

I just plonked them down on the little tables and plugged them in. 120W at 8 Ohms, they have some substance to them. Bearing-in-mind they've done over 5 years as rear channels on a 5.1 setup, they've never been worked at all.

 

Having the main room in a state of flux is providing great opportunity for experimentation. Today I'm having fun.

 

Edited September 9, 20223 yr by El Tel

I was going to suggest you to keep the CM5 for the future second system if you don't have or as a spare. For myself, coming from floorstand speakers to standmount, I have no regrets at all unless you have a such a big listening room.

Monday got postponed due to unforeseen circumstances. Christian came and did his thing yesterday.

 

II was really interesting to watch and learn.

 

WOW. A borrowed pair of REL S510s.

 

WOW.

 

Everything has foundation now and the stage is fleshed-out fully.

 

I can't help but feel these have more power than I actually need, but I'm not sure I'm ready to give them back to @NADCRUSHER

 

17 minutes ago, El Tel said:

WOW. A borrowed pair of REL S510s.

 

WOW.

 

Everything has foundation now and the stage is fleshed-out fully.

 

I can't help but feel these have more power than I actually need, but I'm not sure I'm ready to give them back to @NADCRUSHER

 

 

How do you integrate them, El Tel?

4 minutes ago, ICUToo said:

How do you integrate them, El Tel?

 

A heap of trial and error. Start in the corners and work on the axis between the corner and the speaker. Spent some time assessing toe-in or not. There comes a point where the room seems to pressurise fully and that's where I left them.

 

So much of a good thing it is difficult not just to turn the gain up on them and let everything else sort itself out.

 

Once I get my room treatments and I prise these out of @NADCRUSHER's hands, I will get Christian Corsini to help me dial them in properly.

 

 

Hows the mid and upper, is there a noticeable difference?

13 minutes ago, maximus said:

Hows the mid and upper, is there a noticeable difference?

Everything now has a base and foundation from which to sit on. It's a feeling rather than a sound. The soundscape has meat on the bones and the instrument placement is better defined. It has improved every aspect, not just everything below 100Hz.

Sounds ultimately fulfilling Tel, I'm seriously thinking  of following suit one day. Must feel like a major upgrade😀.

11 hours ago, El Tel said:

I can't help but feel these have more power than I actually need, but I'm not sure I'm ready to give them back to @NADCRUSHER

There is no such thing as too much power. Wash your mouth out 🧼 

 

subs, even when you have large floorstanders, let you really optimise that 20-200Hz performance which is the bit we really focus on a lot in listening impressions. 
 

I am about to pull the trigger on a Rel sub to replace my old 12” sub. We’ll need to have a play once I have it in place

32 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said:

There is no such thing as too much power. Wash your mouth out 🧼 

 

subs, even when you have large floorstanders, let you really optimise that 20-200Hz performance which is the bit we really focus on a lot in listening impressions. 
 

I am about to pull the trigger on a Rel sub to replace my old 12” sub. We’ll need to have a play once I have it in place

If you can get through to Woodend over the weekend, you're welcome to have a listen to these 510s...

Edited October 13, 20223 yr by El Tel

On 14/09/2022 at 10:57 AM, El Tel said:

Monday got postponed due to unforeseen circumstances. Christian came and did his thing yesterday.

 

II was really interesting to watch and learn.

 

You are working way beyond my ken with both gear and measurement, but that symmetrical, down-the-room orientation just looks right.

Enjoying the story of your journey. Your description “It's a feeling rather than a sound. The soundscape has meat on the bones and the instrument placement is better defined“  captures the situation when the SQ elements in the room click into place. Great work!

On 13/10/2022 at 7:18 PM, El Tel said:

I can't help but feel these have more power than I actually need...

Try not to think like that or it will stifle your dreams. 🤩

On 13/10/2022 at 5:48 PM, El Tel said:

 

Nice room and system there

 

This setup looks much better then the original transverse orientation. There are big benefits sitting away from a wall. It gets you out of bass nodes and early reflections. Does it sound different?

 

In case you are open to further ideas:

1. put the speakers on a soft towel and clean the floor so you can slide them around with no lifting or back strain

2. bring the speakers further into the room, closer to the side walls and do assertive in toeing with crossing way in front of the listening  position to avoid side wall reflections so the soundstage opens, deepens and locks in

3. put the subs either side of the listening couch/seat. This will maximise direct bass to nodal excitation. Put a nice throw over then and tell Mrs El Tel they are dual coffee tables. Then ditch the coffee table in front of the listening position. 

4. high pass the Tannoys so they are relieved of high excursion bass duties under e.g. 80Hz.

Edited October 29, 20223 yr by Nada

Wonderful system you've got there Tel. Looks marvellous and no doubt is sounding even better!

23 hours ago, Nada said:

 

Nice room and system there

 

This setup looks much better then the original transverse orientation. There are big benefits sitting away from a wall. It gets you out of bass nodes and early reflections. Does it sound different?

 

In case you are open to further ideas:

1. put the speakers on a soft towel and clean the floor so you can slide them around with no lifting or back strain

2. bring the speakers further into the room, closer to the side walls and do assertive in toeing with crossing way in front of the listening  position to avoid side wall reflections so the soundstage opens, deepens and locks in

3. put the subs either side of the listening couch/seat. This will maximise direct bass to nodal excitation. Put a nice throw over then and tell Mrs El Tel they are dual coffee tables. Then ditch the coffee table in front of the listening position. 

4. high pass the Tannoys so they are relieved of high excursion bass duties under e.g. 80Hz.

 

Appreciate your comments. It does sound better and different. No longer having asymmetrical reflections has had a subtle but positive effect. The initial loss of sound pressure has been alleviated by the 2 big RELs providing better foundation for everything else to live on top of.

 

On all points with regards to speaker positioning, the setup position in the picture is interim (final tune once treatments are selected and installed next year) and was reached using the services of a qualified acoustician and output from numerous tools including REW. We attempted a dozen or so positions within the rough area of where they are in the picture. I have had many combinations during the setup including going in pretty much every direction (keeping symmetry with the listening position) by up to 1 metre. Wider ✅, narrower ✅, closer to the front wall ✅, further into the room ✅, toe-in from 0° to 25° ✅. As the response curves started to look better, I tried some subjective listening and choose a position which did not look like the absolute best curve on the plots (but close enough), but sounded better to me.

 

The position of dual subs was again reached using test and measure. The best responses and integration was achievable within short reach of the front corners of the room where they are in the picture. (ignore the B&W ASW10CM slightly to the left of the centre line in the pic, that was disconnected when the S510s were integrated). Again, will be using the services of Christian Corsini to fine tune once again when the treatments are done at the end of the rest of the house reno.

 

High pass is not straightforward on the Tannoys but changing the crossover on the RELs is probably a different way at coming at it which has worked pretty well.

2 hours ago, Bisguittin said:

Wonderful system you've got there Tel. Looks marvellous and no doubt is sounding even better!

 

I'm very happy with where it is at for now, Leon. I'm delaying full gratification until I have earned it by finishing the rest of the reno work before indulging in the acoustic treatments and other refinements later. I am then going to look at some racking bling for the finishing touches.

 

The McIntosh and Tannoys are singing beautifully now that I have managed to secure the RELs and add them in. I was not sure I would get my mate to actually capitulate and let me buy them from him, but we reached an entente 😀

I am green with envy at your room Tel and many of the listening environments I witness here. Although I possess my fair share of high calibre audio equipment, it finds itself placed in a shared family space in a very small house. Not ideal.

11 minutes ago, Bisguittin said:

I am green with envy at your room Tel and many of the listening environments I witness here. Although I possess my fair share of high calibre audio equipment, it finds itself placed in a shared family space in a very small house. Not ideal.

 

I hear you and feel you on this one. Even in the finest of purpose-built environments, compromises have to be made, albeit at a level of micro-detail that us mortals probably needn't trouble ourselves with 😆 It does make a difference with Mrs Tel totally on-board with what we're doing; she deserves to be canonised.

40 minutes ago, El Tel said:

It does make a difference with Mrs Tel totally on-board with what we're doing; she deserves to be canonised.

 

Is that like ... shot out of a canon, ET? 

 

32 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Is that like ... shot out of a canon, ET? 

 

 

I just know you're pulling my leg... Canonised = granted sainthood. 🤣

On 13/10/2022 at 5:48 PM, El Tel said:

WOW. A borrowed pair of REL S510s.

 

WOW.

 

Everything has foundation now and the stage is fleshed-out fully.

 

I can't help but feel these have more power than I actually need, but I'm not sure I'm ready to give them back to @NADCRUSHER

 

Nice! Mr Tel 🙂

Recently put up a WTB for some Auralex Subdude II isolation platforms as I borrowed a pair from @NADCRUSHER that seemed to tighten things up a bit. After doing some testing off the back of great advice and a link to a REL video, thanks to @doogie44, I confirmed that although the subs had stopped walking around when driven a little, the isolation pads had stopped the downward-firing driver from being as effective as it should be. The softening of the downward drivers gave the illusion of tightening everything up.

 

So cut to yesterday when some anti-slip matting arrived:

 

I cut it into strips approx 300mm x 100mm and used some double-sided tape to affix the srips to the underside of the REL sled-runner feet:

 

 

 

Mrs Tel disappeared off out for an hour, so I just gave it a little bit of beans on some bass-heavy tracks (Brothers Johnson - Stomp!; Paloma Faith - Take Me; George Michael - Spinning the Wheel and a few others) to see if I could tempt the RELs to go walkies at all.

 

Well the RELs have behaved like the bestest doggos and stayed right where they were and the taughtness is still there as is a little bit more solidity to the bass that the isolation pads had masked/softened.

 

That's another couple of percent in the marginal gains game. Today is another good day.