Ittaku Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 Just now, Satanica said: Right, you mentioned speakers in your previous post and not ears. Regardless, the Fletcher-Munson curves apply to you too, well at least your left ear. I alluded to it when I said hearing, but yes of course the curves most definitely apply.
andyr Posted January 25, 2022 Author Posted January 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Tweaky said: We have a forum member ATM that has been running Maggie's with a Hegal 190 and has been quite happy with it. As someone who owned 3-way, true-ribbon Maggies for nearly 30 yrs ... I would suggest "quite happy" is a long way from experiencing the best his Maggies have to offer. 2 hours ago, Tweaky said: He's bought a new Hegal 390, which he reported in reason for sale, that he wasn't happy with driving his speakers. I asked him why he wasn't happy with it, and he replied that he found they don't load the room the same as the 100wpc lower power Hegal 190, and has put it up for sale......actually he has put up both for sale now.......maybe staying with whichever sells first? People who are into integrated amps face a tough choice if they also run Maggies. I looked at the specs of both those amps and Hegel are very careful not to reveal their power output into 4 ohms. Which is what counts, with any Maggie. Your mate should perhaps look at a Pass Labs INT-250 for something that I would expect will really make his 1.7s sing. Andy
Ittaku Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 2 hours ago, TerryO said: What about the second owner? He loves flipping speakers every 3 months regardless lucky for me.
rantan Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 To answer the topic directly. Because it is the nature of the audiophile to change speakers for no particular reason at all 3 2
Ittaku Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tweaky said: We have a forum member ATM that has been running Maggie's with a Hegal 190 and has been quite happy with it. He's bought a new Hegal 390, which he reported in reason for sale, that he wasn't happy with driving his speakers. I asked him why he wasn't happy with it, and he replied that he found they don't load the room the same as the 100wpc lower power Hegal 190, and has put it up for sale......actually he has put up both for sale now.......maybe staying with whichever sells first? So I guess there is a lot more to just having more headroom with a amp, even from the same manufacture, using the same speakers. I'm still trying to decipher how that can be the case, but there's a lot obscured about these two amps so it's hard to make a fair comparison, especially since neither quote their current ability, they just mention "2 ohms minimum" without referencing how much power they put into 2 ohms. One thing that might be going on is that H390 is actually a bridged amp despite being more power. Bridging an amp doubles the minimum impedance an amplifier can drive, so perhaps its ability into 2 ohms is not even as good as its smaller sibling. Looking at their specs, a few other things stand out as curious to me about the H390 - despite being rated at 250W versus the 150W of the H190, distortion figures from both amps are quoted at only 50W. That doesn't say anything useful about the power bandwidth capability of the amplifier. The other thing is that despite being rated at 65% more power than the H190, the amplifier weighs less than 5% more weight than the H190. The bulk of an amplifier's weight should be its power supply, and the power supply should be proportionately larger for proportionately more power. Edited January 25, 2022 by Ittaku 2
proftournesol Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 6 hours ago, Satanica said: One of the things that annoys me is that passive speaker manufacturers aren't very clear about the amplifier requirements of their products. I think many audiophiles either underestimate or overestimate how much power they actually need. I'm on my second pair of actives recently after running my previous for about 14 years. Actives make having capable enough amplifiers a manufacturer problem rather than a me problem. The ones I'm running now are apparently each calibrated against a reference before leaving the factory, so the manufacturer knows and controls what their customers are getting in regards to hardware (Speakers, Amps, DAC's) and thus the level of performance. I couldn't agree more, it's one of the compelling reasons to go active, the sound is great, the speakers are well driven and I can just concentrate on getting more music instead of more gear (OK - I can spend it on coffee gear rather than audio gear) 1
tripitaka Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 5 hours ago, Ittaku said: There is a minimal threshold volume where they spring to life, but it is way below normal listening volumes, and that may be my hearing rather than the speakers because I find that for all speakers. I can vouch that @Ittakuisnt afraid to crank it, but it's an interesting question since classical music often has very quiet passages and they sounded as good on his system as the louder passages. 1
andyr Posted January 25, 2022 Author Posted January 25, 2022 21 minutes ago, tripitaka said: I can vouch that @Ittakuisnt afraid to crank it, but it's an interesting question since classical music often has very quiet passages and they sounded as good on his system as the louder passages. Mmmm ... not sure that Joz would agree with you! Andy 1
tripitaka Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, andyr said: Mmmm ... not sure that Joz would agree with you! Andy That's quite correct!! 'can you at boost the bass'
Ittaku Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, tripitaka said: That's quite correct!! 'can you at boost the bass' This may or may not have happened at our get together...
GregWormald Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 8 hours ago, stereo coffee said: Current drive indeed is a different approach, rather than assuming there is no issue, read instead about the actual issues https://www.current-drive.info/6 Unfortunately I don't know enough theory to really understand the differences between voltage and current drive. Fortunately, when I had my SGR CX4F speakers upgraded to current drive I was easily able to hear the improvement. The new MT 3.3 speakers are likewise current drive. 1
GregWormald Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, proftournesol said: I couldn't agree more, it's one of the compelling reasons to go active, the sound is great, the speakers are well driven and I can just concentrate on getting more music instead of more gear (OK - I can spend it on coffee gear rather than audio gear) Been there, done that. Coffee gear is now well "over the top". Unfortunately the 'bug for better' bit again and new active gear (and more) was purchased. The superannuation account really took a hit in 2021/22. 1
andyr Posted January 25, 2022 Author Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, proftournesol said: I couldn't agree more, it's one of the compelling reasons to go active, the sound is great, the speakers are well driven and I can just concentrate on getting more music instead of more gear Sure, if you buy some commercial active spkrs. (But then you have to put up with (or maybe you don't think this way?) the thought that, to reduce their sell-price, maybe the mfrs used average parts (in particular, caps) rather than fine-sounding parts? ) Whereas, if you create your own active spkrs - as I've done - you can: use the best drivers (and caps) you can afford, in your amps & spkrs but your amplifier choice is never closed off! My 'zero baffle' spkrs are driven very well by a Hugh Dean Class A (diyAudio) design - which is only 40w into 4 ohms. Maybe a nice pair of tube amps (like PrimaLuna EVO 100s or 200s) would make them sound better! Andy
Ray H Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 I’m not sure if this topic was supposed to incite responses, but I think the premise behind this thread is a very large assumption tbh. There is one (or two previous owners) example relating to one pair of speakers given. And the details are reasonably vague. Not exactly overwhelming evidence of an endemic amount of audiophiles under driving speakers, then moving them on. Having said that and with a view to adding something useful to the discussion. I remember 20 + years ago when a pretty large portion of Audiophiles believed the source was the most important component of a system. Flat earthers ! I think it’s safe to say that this has switched to the speakers becoming the most important component generally. Which to me explains why people are shifting speakers frequently. Because they believe they can gain more by swapping out the speakers than the other components. Not only from a quality % perspective but for monetary reasons. Sure I agree this swapping of speakers will result in speaker/amp matching issues. But not necessarily as much as the thread implies. I believe a lot of speaker first proponents are trying to find their speaker “jam” so to speak. And they believe the amp and source are less important. This amp swapping is therefore not so frequent in the upgrade chains of a lot of audiophiles. I agree it is important that once you have found the speaker you are happy with, to then research and listen to the amplifiers that meet the basic driving characteristics of that chosen speaker. Most of the time this requires a lot of demoing, and hopefully hearing that amp with your speakers, preferably in your home, prior to purchase. The other issue of course is not everybody can afford MBL’s, then a brace of awesome amps to drive them. But they may do so in the future if they have that pair of MBL’s in their listening room as a starting point.
att23 Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) Hegel for some unknown reason have changed the way they provide the specs in the newer models. The previous model H360 manual shows them differently. Edited January 25, 2022 by att23
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 25, 2022 Volunteer Posted January 25, 2022 8 hours ago, Ittaku said: He loves flipping speakers every 3 months regardless lucky for me. Do you know what amps the original owner had (were they devialet? )
metal beat Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) I am not sure many audiophiles flip their speakers more than they flip their amps trying to drive their speakers to perfection. Flipping small speakers is easy peasy, but large speakers? I don't think so. the large MBL speakers are known to be bittches to drive due to low effciency and low impedance, hence most are driven by the giant MBL amps and preamp. Once driven correctly, they are one of the best speakers one can buy - what Itakku seems to be experiencing. Edited January 25, 2022 by metal beat 1
Addicted to music Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 12 hours ago, TerryO said: Riddle me this, why do men married to stunning vivacious beauty queens have affairs with other woman? Rather than assuming the previous owner didn’t know what he was doing maybe he just wanted to have a change and try something else he lusted after. Blondes are great but red heads are fun as well. … cheers, Terry asians are the best 1
Addicted to music Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 I drove a pair of LInn Kans with a 500W Perreaux, you wouldn’t believe the low end propagating from such a small speaker…..in the mid 1980s Hence the reason I have a Magtech, use to drive Maggie’s 1.7 but now drive some cheap automotive speakers that my son was about to bin. It’s all about the number of devices (current) and voltage rail. All class A and AB amplifiers are class as Voltage source….. just remember with 500W @8 ohms. It has the potential to destroy any coil or ribbon….. 1
andyr Posted January 25, 2022 Author Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, metal beat said: I am not sure many audiophiles flip their speakers more than they flip their amps trying to drive their speakers to perfection. Flipping small speakers is easy peasy, but large speakers? I don't think so. But, Shane - the cases for the MBLs are large and they weigh, what ... 100kgs a side? So they are not "small speakers". Yet owner #2, it seems, changes his spkrs every few months (even "large/heavy" spkrs). My original post was not so much directed at those people - as sure, some people like change - but to owner #1 ... who got rid of them because the amps he was using never did "bring them to life". Given as the buyer-from-new he paid quite a sum for the MBLs ... he didn't need to go to the extent which Con has gone to, in terms of amplification - but if he had bought, say: a pair of Magtech stereo amps or a pair of Purify 450 watters ... I suspect he would've found that they had "come to life"! Andy
Ittaku Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 3 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said: Do you know what amps the original owner had (were they devialet? ) I don't, sorry. 1
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 25, 2022 Volunteer Posted January 25, 2022 One set of speakers I owned and probably never got their full potential was some Whatmough 502i. At the time I had a Sonus Faber “musica”’amp. Beautiful looking thing but in hindsight it was never a good match for the whatmoughs. I sometimes wonder if I’d still have them if I’d only had an amp that did them justice. The reality is, of course I wouldn’t. That’s not how this hobby works!
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 25, 2022 Volunteer Posted January 25, 2022 6 hours ago, Ittaku said: I don't, sorry. The reason I asked is that there was a chap in Melbourne on the Devialet forums who had some MBLs (and there can’t be many of them in Melbourne). As much as I liked my devialet at the time, I always wondered whether it was a good match for the MBLs.
MTL Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 @andyr I am a very good friend of the original owner-he was and still is using a pair of Bryston 28 b monos . That’s 1000 w into 8 ohms if I recall. He also has a Gryphon antileon evo. Mark 2
MTL Posted January 25, 2022 Posted January 25, 2022 I don’t think he’d mind me saying that he had the Mbl at the same time as a pair of vivid g3 s2. Guesses as to which pair of speakers he kept? 1
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