The silliness about "best" format for music, and some other thoughts.

[soundfan]

I was just browsing the currently spinning threads and read comments about an album being played on a less favoured format.

It got me thinking about all the tribalism that raises it's head sometimes, ( fortunately not in the currently spinning/jazz/world/electronica etc etc threads here,)  on other music/hi fi forums I subscribe to.

 

I think and hope that I am getting wiser as I get older, and these days give far less a flying ***** about how the music I am playing is being delivered to my ears. I love vinyl, cd, and even streaming too. My DAC is one of my best ever investments that opened up a whole world of music that can be enjoyed at pretty damn good sound quality. But cut to the quick and I know that the music is much more important than what it's played on, and will always be this way in my case. I can be getting my rocks off listening to Rodriguez: Cold Fact on my portable DAP, as much or more than playing it on another format in my lounge room with speakers blaring.

 

Yeah, once upon a time I may have made a comment dissing sound quality of music delivered by cd rather than vinyl, and vice versa too, but in my defense I only spoke from experience in owning and hearing both formats and forming MY opinion on which sounded better. I haven't dissed a format for a long time now. I still do prefer one format over another, but to be honest, as long as I have a physical copy to own and play, I could care less.

There is nothing at all wrong with loving one format over the other, but I do think some folk get a bit carried away at times.

Yes, I still care about sound quality, and always will, but can happily say that my system has remained the same for quite a while now, and unless lotto comes calling, will do so for quite a while. And enjoy the heck out of it.

 

I know there are some real music junkies here and I count myself among them. I also love  reading how someone connects to a said bit of music, rather than go on about what it was played on.

And while on that topic, anyone can cut and paste a picture of an album they are playing, or supply a photo, but it means little to me if they don't offer any words to their post other than what is playing.

 

C'mon people, stop being lazy, say a little about the album or how it connects/or not to you. Anything other than just posting a picture.

 

At the end of the day all I am saying is that hi fi counts far less than the music playing. To me. Seeing a live gig the other night reminds me that not one bit of equipment we own will ever equal how music should be enjoyed first and foremost, alas, we need physical media and the tools to play it, to replicate to some degree, and to emotionally connect with, the greatest pastime of all. Listening to music.

 

And no... I haven't been drinking, just wanted to put some thoughts down. Long live music..... and lap up as much of it as you can, while you can.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by soundfan

[Candyflip]

2 minutes ago, soundfan said:

 

 

C'mon people, stop being lazy, say a little about the album or how it connects/or not to you. Anything other than just posting a picture.

I’ve noted this before.

Unfortunately, I got nowhere.

perhaps you’ll have more luck.

[Guest Misterioso]

8 minutes ago, soundfan said:

C'mon people, stop being lazy, say a little about the album or how it connects/or not to you. Anything other than just posting a picture.

I tried for a while and basically thought I am talking to myself. Went back to posting pictures only and meanwhile stopped doing that as well.

[LHC]

9 minutes ago, soundfan said:

I still do prefer one format over another, but to be honest, as long as I have a physical copy to own and play, I could care less.

 

I agree with your post and appreciate your wisdom. But why is a physical copy so important to you? (Just asking of course )

[Luc]

I don't paste often enough in currently spinning but I always like to leave commentary about the music or something connected to it, especially if it's obscure or perhaps a new remastered album of Mrs Mills.

[Guest deanB]

47 minutes ago, soundfan said:

C'mon people, stop being lazy, say a little about the album or how it connects/or not to you. Anything other than just posting a picture.

I'm a big fan of combining music and inebriation. If you notice me not commenting on my Currently Spinning posts, please feel free to assume that I'm too munted to operate my device.

[BLAH BLAH]

1 hour ago, soundfan said:

I was just browsing the currently spinning threads and read comments about an album being played on a less favoured format.

It got me thinking about all the tribalism that raises it's head sometimes, ( fortunately not in the currently spinning/jazz/world/electronica etc etc threads here,)  on other music/hi fi forums I subscribe to.

 

I think and hope that I am getting wiser as I get older, and these days give far less a flying ***** about how the music I am playing is being delivered to my ears. I love vinyl, cd, and even streaming too. My DAC is one of my best ever investments that opened up a whole world of music that can be enjoyed at pretty damn good sound quality. But cut to the quick and I know that the music is much more important than what it's played on, and will always be this way in my case. I can be getting my rocks off listening to Rodriguez: Cold Fact on my portable DAP, as much or more than playing it on another format in my lounge room with speakers blaring.

 

Yeah, once upon a time I may have made a comment dissing sound quality of music delivered by cd rather than vinyl, and vice versa too, but in my defense I only spoke from experience in owning and hearing both formats and forming MY opinion on which sounded better. I haven't dissed a format for a long time now. I still do prefer one format over another, but to be honest, as long as I have a physical copy to own and play, I could care less.

There is nothing at all wrong with loving one format over the other, but I do think some folk get a bit carried away at times.

Yes, I still care about sound quality, and always will, but can happily say that my system has remained the same for quite a while now, and unless lotto comes calling, will do so for quite a while. And enjoy the heck out of it.

 

I know there are some real music junkies here and I count myself among them. I also love  reading how someone connects to a said bit of music, rather than go on about what it was played on.

And while on that topic, anyone can cut and paste a picture of an album they are playing, or supply a photo, but it means little to me if they don't offer any words to their post other than what is playing.

 

C'mon people, stop being lazy, say a little about the album or how it connects/or not to you. Anything other than just posting a picture.

 

At the end of the day all I am saying is that hi fi counts far less than the music playing. To me. Seeing a live gig the other night reminds me that not one bit of equipment we own will ever equal how music should be enjoyed first and foremost, alas, we need physical media and the tools to play it, to replicate to some degree, and to emotionally connect with, the greatest pastime of all. Listening to music.

 

And no... I haven't been drinking, just wanted to put some thoughts down. Long live music..... and lap up as much of it as you can, while you can.

 

 

Yeah i know what you mean, i'm over the triabilism of Vinyl versus all the other formats, heck i'm so cool about it these days even americanisms as 'dissing' just does'nt get up my nose as it use to!

 

13

 

[Ian McP]

It's all in the emotional impact of the music upon your good self. I once had a beta videotape of Kid Creole and the Coconuts live that had me in goosebumps every single time I played it! That is unti the tape wore out, besides betamax is now a defunct technology, at least on the domestic front.

Decide for yourself, band were at their absolute peak for this live show. Excuse the quality but you may get my drift....

Kid Creole and the Coconuts Hammersith 1983, the brass intro at 3:10 still brings me to tears!

 

 

[Ian McP]

< At the end of the day all I am saying is that hi fi counts far less than the music playing. To me. Seeing a live gig the other night reminds me that not one bit of equipment we own will ever equal how music should be enjoyed first and foremost, alas, we need physical media and the tools to play it, to replicate to some degree, and to emotionally connect with, the greatest pastime of all. Listening to music. >

 

Never really got Fat Freddy's Drop until I saw them live! Their cd's both live and in the studio took on a whole new perspective after that "religious" experience!

 

[emesbee]

On 29/10/2018 at 8:44 PM, soundfan said:

 

And while on that topic, anyone can cut and paste a picture of an album they are playing, or supply a photo, but it means little to me if they don't offer any words to their post other than what is playing.

 

C'mon people, stop being lazy, say a little about the album or how it connects/or not to you. Anything other than just posting a picture.

 

 

 

My thoughts exactly. To me, posting pictures of album covers with no comments about the music being played has very little value. All it says is 'I played this, then I played this, then I played this, then I played..... yawn'.

 

Its good to share thoughts and information about music though, so comments and opinions about what is being played are always welcome.

 

 

 

[scuzzii]

On ‎29‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:14 PM, soundfan said:

I was just browsing the currently spinning threads and read comments about an album being played on a less favoured format.

It got me thinking about all the tribalism that raises it's head sometimes, ( fortunately not in the currently spinning/jazz/world/electronica etc etc threads here,)  on other music/hi fi forums I subscribe to.

 

I think and hope that I am getting wiser as I get older, and these days give far less a flying ***** about how the music I am playing is being delivered to my ears. I love vinyl, cd, and even streaming too. My DAC is one of my best ever investments that opened up a whole world of music that can be enjoyed at pretty damn good sound quality. But cut to the quick and I know that the music is much more important than what it's played on, and will always be this way in my case. I can be getting my rocks off listening to Rodriguez: Cold Fact on my portable DAP, as much or more than playing it on another format in my lounge room with speakers blaring.

 

Yeah, once upon a time I may have made a comment dissing sound quality of music delivered by cd rather than vinyl, and vice versa too, but in my defense I only spoke from experience in owning and hearing both formats and forming MY opinion on which sounded better. I haven't dissed a format for a long time now. I still do prefer one format over another, but to be honest, as long as I have a physical copy to own and play, I could care less.

There is nothing at all wrong with loving one format over the other, but I do think some folk get a bit carried away at times.

Yes, I still care about sound quality, and always will, but can happily say that my system has remained the same for quite a while now, and unless lotto comes calling, will do so for quite a while. And enjoy the heck out of it.

 

I know there are some real music junkies here and I count myself among them. I also love  reading how someone connects to a said bit of music, rather than go on about what it was played on.

And while on that topic, anyone can cut and paste a picture of an album they are playing, or supply a photo, but it means little to me if they don't offer any words to their post other than what is playing.

 

C'mon people, stop being lazy, say a little about the album or how it connects/or not to you. Anything other than just posting a picture.

 

At the end of the day all I am saying is that hi fi counts far less than the music playing. To me. Seeing a live gig the other night reminds me that not one bit of equipment we own will ever equal how music should be enjoyed first and foremost, alas, we need physical media and the tools to play it, to replicate to some degree, and to emotionally connect with, the greatest pastime of all. Listening to music.

 

And no... I haven't been drinking, just wanted to put some thoughts down. Long live music..... and lap up as much of it as you can, while you can.

 

 

 

 

the sharing of thoughts on Currently Spinning (and CS Jazz) has broadened my horizons to new music.  It's my fav part/thread of SNA.

[keyse1]

20 minutes ago, scuzzii said:

the sharing of thoughts on Currently Spinning (and CS Jazz) has broadened my horizons to new music.  It's my fav part/thread of SNA.

Try the country music thread

Its the best thread

[Dilettanteque]

On 18/11/2018 at 10:39 AM, emesbee said:

 

My thoughts exactly. To me, posting pictures of album covers with no comments about the music being played has very little value. All it says is 'I played this, then I played this, then I played this, then I played..... yawn'.

 

Its good to share thoughts and information about music though, so comments and opinions about what is being played are always welcome.

 

 

 

I'm a serial transgressor in this regard @emesbee .  Plonking down my choices with little/no embellishment.  A mixture of both time constraints and also assuming that others may not see much value in my "market of one" opinions about music, or the limitations  of my knwledge of the artist's back story.  I have pondered your perspective myself, and to a certain extent align with it.

 

But in defense of "the unembellished  plonk", the number of times esteemed SNAers have simply stated what they are listening to and it has either drawn me towards something I had not heard in a long while, which reorients my listening for the good, is worth it in my book.  And more valuable, the continual flow of people listening to stuff (and declaring it) that I had never even heard of gives me a chance to do my own research and pull threads in the music fabric I may never have otherwise observed.   If the expectation of commentary became a barrier to seeing the flow of people's tastes I , for one, would be disappointed.

 

That's not to invalidate your point.  "Make an effort when you can" may be a useful suggestion.

[emesbee]

7 hours ago, Dilettanteque said:

I'm a serial transgressor in this regard @emesbee .  Plonking down my choices with little/no embellishment.  A mixture of both time constraints and also assuming that others may not see much value in my "market of one" opinions about music, or the limitations  of my knwledge of the artist's back story.  I have pondered your perspective myself, and to a certain extent align with it.

 

But in defense of "the unembellished  plonk", the number of times esteemed SNAers have simply stated what they are listening to and it has either drawn me towards something I had not heard in a long while, which reorients my listening for the good, is worth it in my book.  And more valuable, the continual flow of people listening to stuff (and declaring it) that I had never even heard of gives me a chance to do my own research and pull threads in the music fabric I may never have otherwise observed.   If the expectation of commentary became a barrier to seeing the flow of people's tastes I , for one, would be disappointed.

 

That's not to invalidate your point.  "Make an effort when you can" may be a useful suggestion.

 

Those are fair comments, sufficient to make me rethink my views somewhat. If you find value in what people post, regardless of whether or not they say anything about the music they are playing, then that is good enough.

 

For my part, I only really feel the urge to post when I want to express my opinions about an artist or a particular recording. The downside is that it takes a fair bit of time and effort to formulate what I want to say, so its not something I do all that frequently. Once I get started though, I seem to get on a bit of a roll with it and often end up posting rather more than I originally intended (which probably runs the risk of boring people). I also very much enjoy reading the comments that other people post about the music they listen to.

 

So, perhaps I was letting my particular prejudices cloud my view a bit. In the end though, it is all about sharing information in one form or another, so it is all good.

 

I agree with your suggestion "make an effort when you can".

 

[Bunno77]

On 29/10/2018 at 8:14 PM, soundfan said:

I still do prefer one format over another, but to be honest, as long as I have a physical copy to own and play, I could care less.

 

 

What would cause you to care less?

[soundfan]

12 minutes ago, Bunno77 said:

What would cause you to care less?

All I meant by that comment is that I like an item I can hold and use, and own.

Nothing more.

[Bunno77]

2 minutes ago, soundfan said:

All I meant by that comment is that I like an item I can hold and use, and own.

Nothing more.

So you couldn't care less 

[crisis]

On 29/10/2018 at 8:44 PM, soundfan said:

Yes, I still care about sound quality, and always will, but can happily say that my system has remained the same for quite a while now, and unless lotto comes calling, will do so for quite a while. And enjoy the heck out of it.

Its a very satisfying place to be. I have only been there for around 12 months myself but I seriously get it.

On 29/10/2018 at 8:44 PM, soundfan said:

At the end of the day all I am saying is that hi fi counts far less than the music playing.

I am one who enjoys the music I love and some music I didn't really like much far more on "HiFi" that reproduces it well. It takes the enjoyment to a whole different level. When I can hear the attack of a stick on a cymbal and the long shimmering decay, the clank of a hammer on a piano string and the sound of the piano resonating, the sound of a pick or finger (and tell the difference) of a bass string and be able to discern the simultaneous beat of a bass guitar and drum separately, the buzzing sound of the reed in a reed instrument. The rasp of a brass instrument, the subtle grind of a bow on a string.... ahhhhh. Thats hifi doing music.

On 29/10/2018 at 8:44 PM, soundfan said:

 

To me. Seeing a live gig the other night reminds me that not one bit of equipment we own will ever equal how music should be enjoyed first and foremost, alas, we need physical media and the tools to play it, to replicate to some degree, and to emotionally connect with, the greatest pastime of all. Listening to music.

Very rarely have I heard music at a live gig (un-amped classical and solo instrumental notwithstanding) that I would ever want to hear on my hifi. The live experience adds another valuable dimension but is not the last word in musical perfection. We should obsesses less about this "live music" ideal and enjoy the music that has been recorded for what it is. The ultimate rendering of the instruments and the laborious pursuit of perfection. An art in itself.

On 29/10/2018 at 8:44 PM, soundfan said:

 

And no... I haven't been drinking, just wanted to put some thoughts down. Long live music..... and lap up as much of it as you can, while you can.

 

Indeed. Except I may have had a few...

[Dilettanteque]

10 hours ago, soundfan said:

All I meant by that comment is that I like an item I can hold and use, and own.

Nothing more.

I'm with you @soundfan

 

Most of the stuff I get these days is downloaded, especially when it offers better resolution than CD (but I do not currently stream from a music service like Tidal).  But I still like having the CD in my hands and the artwork/notes available. I moved from vinyl in the 80s (bought the Yamaha CDX-2 when released and never looked back, for various reasons), and do so very much miss the experience of the new album in one's hands - the artwork more impressive at that scale.  I also attribute the move to CD as the point at which I started to lose the iron grip on song names - not having a chance to glance at the song lists on the record label on much vinyl when dropping it on the platter meant that much music I listened to had less chance to link name to track - "oh yeah, that track 7  on XXXX - that's great...just wish i knew the name".

 

I also like being able to wander up to the two sets of shelves that house the CD collection and doing a good old browse to seek inspiration for what to listen to when I don't have something particularly in mind.  Stuff leaps out that one doesn't expect. You head off into listening that was unplanned and rewarding for that very fact.  I have recently been Roonified, which brings something back in terms of being able to access  info on selections.  But I must say that in my experience scrolling through Roon, or BluOS, or my MediaMonkey window on my NAS, has some efficiency, but it doesn't have a patch on scanning the shelves.

 

And for all that, and my preference for the jewel case and CD on the shelf, I very much still experience the sense of loss that the CD case doesn't provide the sensory pleasure of the vinyl equivalents.

 

And of course when the revolution comes and Donald Trump is turning the internet on and off as he sees fit,  or jails everybody associated with Tidal because some future most listened track mentions his administration and Russians in the same lyric, I look forward to wandering over to the shelf, doing the mechanical finger scroll, and choosing something that I can play as long as somehow through all the incomprehensible energy debates in Australia the power is still on! 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Dilettanteque

[BLAH BLAH]

19 hours ago, Dilettanteque said:

I'm a serial transgressor in this regard @emesbee .  Plonking down my choices with little/no embellishment.  A mixture of both time constraints and also assuming that others may not see much value in my "market of one" opinions about music, or the limitations  of my knwledge of the artist's back story.  I have pondered your perspective myself, and to a certain extent align with it.

 

But in defense of "the unembellished  plonk", the number of times esteemed SNAers have simply stated what they are listening to and it has either drawn me towards something I had not heard in a long while, which reorients my listening for the good, is worth it in my book.  And more valuable, the continual flow of people listening to stuff (and declaring it) that I had never even heard of gives me a chance to do my own research and pull threads in the music fabric I may never have otherwise observed.   If the expectation of commentary became a barrier to seeing the flow of people's tastes I , for one, would be disappointed.

 

That's not to invalidate your point.  "Make an effort when you can" may be a useful suggestion.

Hmmm on second thoughts...just post a picture!

[davewantsmoore]

On 29/10/2018 at 9:14 PM, soundfan said:

I was just browsing the currently spinning threads and read comments about an album being played on a less favoured format.

All modern formats have sufficient fidelity.

 

The difference in sound is about how they are used.

 

Audiophiles like to "blame the format" because they do not understand the above - but like human nature demands need an explanation.

 

The hifi industry prefers it this way, as it is a tool to sell products.

 

 

It is like this 10 minute video, but instead of cameras, think about it for audio.    Listen to the video carefully, and think about it in the context of sound capture/reproduction. 

 

It seems counter intuitive to people .... because "new technology" often looks (or sounds) fantastic.

 

"High-res" sounds better to audiophiles .... so "high-res" must be better, right?!

 

The REALITY is that "24/192" (or whatever) tells you nothing about the quality of the audio inside the container.

 

 

 

 

On 29/10/2018 at 9:14 PM, soundfan said:

Yeah, once upon a time I may have made a comment dissing sound quality of music delivered by cd rather than vinyl, and vice versa too, but in my defense I only spoke from experience in owning and hearing both formats and forming MY opinion on which sounded better.

... and your experience is probably right.   We can be swayed easily by bias ... but in your "overall assessment" you probably weren't.

 

The mistake people make is saying ....  "because I heard X or Y .... then I am going to draw some detailed conclusion about the cause of it ... or the superiority/flaws of some certain technology".

 

 

On 29/10/2018 at 9:14 PM, soundfan said:

C'mon people, stop being lazy, say a little about the album or how it connects/or not to you. Anything other than just posting a picture.

Oh whoops.... Didn't read this far, before going on my usual ranty rant.

 

Current album playing:   Foals - Holy Fire

 

It's great!  (Yeah, I'm not very good at this)

 

[Peterbean]

In terms of digital, sacd and 24/96 can be excellent-,however it is very source dependent. My brother in law has a huge high res collection and even he says some is no better than redbook.
I am planning to have a local stereonet session at my place later in dec or early next year doing some comparisons- beatles and cream high res vinyl v high res digital.
That said i still prefer vinyl for seruous listenning.
And further.. there is an even higher res digital format starting up ( non pcm)

[davewantsmoore]

4 minutes ago, Alpine Electrocats said:

My brother in law has a huge high res collection and even he says some is no better than redbook.

Indeed....  there's no real fundamental technical reason to think they would be.   They could be - but the fact that the audio is in a "high res" container, doesn't tell us anything.

[was_a]

On 29/10/2018 at 9:20 PM, candyflip said:

I’ve noted this before.

Unfortunately, I got nowhere.

perhaps you’ll have more luck.

Likewise. Currently spinning threads are often a bit of a w*** to show off expensive turntables or what have you. Often this strikes me as a little sad, like teenagers who post compulsively on social media sites... 

 

I agree with the OP that music can be enjoyed equally on a high-end domestic system, portable audio etc. Often I enjoy it most in my car! It's the emotional connection to the music, mood etc, that fuels the experience.  

 

I too am a music junkie. What's changed for me in recent years is my growing enthusiasm for live music, particularly classical concerts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by was_a

[davewantsmoore]

On 29/10/2018 at 10:08 PM, deanB said:

I'm a big fan of combining music and inebriation. If you notice me not commenting on my Currently Spinning posts, please feel free to assume that I'm too munted to operate my device.

This ^^^