Peter_F Posted January 21, 2023 Posted January 21, 2023 On 21/01/2023 at 10:01 AM, stevoz said: Oh, so it looks like you want to start something.....and see below......and don't react like an elitist. Expand No. 1
April Snow Posted January 22, 2023 Posted January 22, 2023 On 22/01/2023 at 6:00 AM, Pops110 said: New addition set up. Expand Oh yes and on The beautiful "Resurrection" 3
Bell Ringer Posted January 22, 2023 Posted January 22, 2023 @Pops110 how is the ZYX? Has that Exceed series just been released recently? 1
Pops110 Posted January 22, 2023 Posted January 22, 2023 On 22/01/2023 at 6:23 AM, Bell Ringer said: @Pops110 how is the ZYX? Has that Exceed series just been released recently? Expand Sounding pretty good so far, only had a very brief listen. Yep it’s a brand new series, it’s supposed to have a few updates over the old models. 1
Pops110 Posted January 22, 2023 Posted January 22, 2023 On 22/01/2023 at 6:15 AM, April Snow said: Oh yes and on The beautiful "Resurrection" Expand I think she is a beautiful beast too. 3
SONDEKNZ Posted January 22, 2023 Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) After decades of testing and experiments, I'm of the opinion that other critical items come before the cartridge. Here's my own, personal ANALOGUE PLAY-BACK HIERARCHY: [Most important first...] 1. Turntable [Including power-supply, motor, bearing, plinth, mat, feet and support furniture...] 2. Tonearm [Including tonearm cable and connectors...] 3. Phono-stage [With correct Gain and Impedance Loading to perfectly match chosen cartridge. Including SUT, if preferred...) 4. Cartridge Just calling it as my ears hear it. I can (have) previously provided many examples and scenarios to support this view. For further reading... LP12 updates… 3 years later… Edited January 22, 2023 by SONDEKNZ 1 1
stevoz Posted January 22, 2023 Posted January 22, 2023 I like the above post as it is not myopic, ie: limiting the argument to just TT type....but I struggle with no mention of amps in this 'hierarchy'. Are you implying that all amp's are naturally 'fatigue free'? My assertion of cartridge being an important factor in the fatigue argument is due to my own experience of carts and my settling on Grace Level II carts as the most fatigue free cartridges I have ever heard.....compared with the other (patricularly Shure and Denon) carts I own. The amp reference I would have thought was obvious......as surely not all amps are naturally fatigue free? Example, Yamaha don't call their amps 'natural sound' for no reason.
Warren M. Posted January 22, 2023 Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) On 22/01/2023 at 12:14 PM, SONDEKNZ said: After decades of testing and experiments, I'm of the opinion that other critical items come before the cartridge. Here's my own, personal ANALOGUE PLAY-BACK HIERARCHY: 1. Turntable 2. Tonearm 3. Phono-stage 4. Cartridge Just calling it as my ears hear it. I can (have) previously provided many examples and scenarios to support this view. For further reading... LP12 updates… 3 years later… Expand It's not an unreasonable hierarchy, but it fails to take account of the "wow" factor which particular cartridges display. Anyone who has heard an optimised (e.g. rebuilt/rewired by Garrot Bros) Decca cartridge will tell you how it blows away every other cartridge when playing particular records (and terrible on some records). That doesn't make the cartridge necessarily more important than the rest of the vinyl audio chain, but it does turn the hierarchy on its head in some circumstances. Some cartridges are all about that wow factor. Others are about helping to recreate the wonder of the original performance. And some are just plainly mediocre at their job! That tends to be true of every component in the chain. But the individual strengths of each component have an overall effect on the satisfaction level in the listening experience. Some of those strengths can be masked or undone by deficiencies of other components in the chain, but some may shine through, despite faults "higher up" in the hierarchy. If I had unlimited funds, I might be tempted to change some of my record playing system, but I would not be quick to do so, as it sounds amazingly good as it is. That, despite the fact that rebuilding it from scratch with the same components new (2nd hand in case of my Once turntable which is no longer made), would cost considerably less than some here have paid for their phono preamp alone! A couple of components in my system are very recent - the JLTi Solid Diamond Mark 5B phono preamp and JLTi-AllclearAudio-modified Grado low output moving iron cartridge. I would not have expected this $3000 combination to provide more musical satisfaction than the near-$10K Lyra Kleos plus redesigned EE Minimax tube phono preamp that it replaced. Is the new preamp more important than the new cartridge in my system? I can't say. But I can easily discern that the combination is phenomenal. Edited January 22, 2023 by Warren M. 1 1
SONDEKNZ Posted January 23, 2023 Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) On 22/01/2023 at 11:30 PM, Warren M. said: It's not an unreasonable hierarchy, but it fails to take account of the "wow" factor which particular cartridges display. Anyone who has heard an optimised (e.g. rebuilt/rewired by Garrot Bros) Decca cartridge will tell you how it blows away every other cartridge when playing particular records (and terrible on some records). That doesn't make the cartridge necessarily more important than the rest of the vinyl audio chain, but it does turn the hierarchy on its head in some circumstances…. Expand You might be right. But I’d wager that on a given quality turntable and tonearm, that: A quality budget $400 cartridge - say a DENON DL-103R - with a top of the line (WOW!) ideally matched Phono Stage - say a PS AUDIO STELLA… Would provide superior sonic performance to… A (WOW!) GARROTTE DECCA installed on the same deck, with a budget Phono Stage - say a $400 NAD or PROJECT, which offers ideal Gain and Impedance Loading. I might be wrong. But if I’m right, I think my personal analogue play-back hierarchy holds true. All highly subjective, of course. Equally, if we add $20,000 to each of the hierarchy components, the hierarchy becomes a moot point - because all components are already best of the best - and compromise becomes unnecessary. That is to say, my hierarchy is only of useful value, in a system that includes budgetary compromises. In a mega-buck system, the hierarchy would still apply - but would not be evident. Edited January 23, 2023 by SONDEKNZ 1
SONDEKNZ Posted January 23, 2023 Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) On 22/01/2023 at 10:22 PM, stevoz said: I like the above post as it is not myopic, ie: limiting the argument to just TT type....but I struggle with no mention of amps in this 'hierarchy'. Are you implying that all amp's are naturally 'fatigue free'? Expand Steve, I stopped at the phono-stage because at that point in my hierarchy, we leave the ANALOGUE PLAY-BACK realm. That is to say, by ANALOGUE PLAY-BACK, I mean the components that are required for and solely devoted to vinyl LP replay. There are many different preamp/amp technologies available these days - and not all of them bring me satisfaction, personally. When it comes to preamps/amps - for driving loudspeakers - I find tubes the most satisfying and least fatiguing. NOT to say that all tube amps are a success. Far from it! You still have to find the right one. Edited January 23, 2023 by SONDEKNZ 1
Warren M. Posted January 24, 2023 Posted January 24, 2023 On 23/01/2023 at 10:30 AM, SONDEKNZ said: I’d wager that on a given quality turntable and tonearm, that: A quality budget $400 cartridge - say a DENON DL-103R - with a top of the line (WOW!) ideally matched Phono Stage - say a PS AUDIO STELLA… Would provide superior sonic performance to… A (WOW!) GARROT DECCA installed on the same deck, with a budget Phono Stage - say a $400 NAD or PROJECT, which offers ideal Gain and Impedance Loading. Expand I would not doubt it as long as the turntable and arm are sufficiently competent. As I said, some strengths can be undone by deficiencies in other components. It is self-evident that an exceptionally musical phono preamp such as the Stellar will allow other good components to shine, while rather dull budget electronics like the NAD will not (I've had the NAD and would not recommend it)! More importantly, using that system including a GOOD phono preamp, and comparing the sound of say a DL-103R or a Shelter 501 (I've had both) against say my JLTi Grado (cheaper than the Shelter btw), might make one wonder what is more important in the hierarchy. And adding $20,000 to every component is no guarantee of a dramatic improvement in sound quality. In fact I spent a morning last week evaluating a system which cost over $200,000, and came away confident that my sub-$30,000 system is in a substantially superior musical class than that one. Cheers Warren
cafe67 Posted January 24, 2023 Posted January 24, 2023 Interesting thoughts, Hierarchy based on my (cost) setup . 1.turntable 2. cartridge 3. phono stage no real plan, just the way it worked out. - the turntable I figure will be my forever turntable, the cart is brand new so that’s here to stay for a while and I’m happy with the sound and options on the phono stage..
SONDEKNZ Posted January 24, 2023 Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) On 24/01/2023 at 7:15 AM, Warren M. said: I would not doubt it as long as the turntable and arm are sufficiently competent. As I said, some strengths can be undone by deficiencies in other components. It is self-evident that an exceptionally musical phono preamp such as the Stellar will allow other good components to shine, while rather dull budget electronics like the NAD will not (I've had the NAD and would not recommend it)! More importantly, using that system including a GOOD phono preamp, and comparing the sound of say a DL-103R or a Shelter 501 (I've had both) against say my JLTi Grado (cheaper than the Shelter btw), might make one wonder what is more important in the hierarchy. And adding $20,000 to every component is no guarantee of a dramatic improvement in sound quality. In fact I spent a morning last week evaluating a system which cost over $200,000, and came away confident that my sub-$30,000 system is in a substantially superior musical class than that one. Cheers Warren Expand Warren, I once shadowed a mate who built a number of products from the design genius of (the late) ALLEN WRIGHT - Founder and Chief Designer at VACUUM STATE. As my mate "knocked them up" we used to schedule regular, late-night get-togethers to run his gear on our easy-drive loudspeakers - and discuss how they sounded. (My wife and I had no toddler, back then...) One was a pair of statement 300B monoblocks - DPA-300B - which featured some sort of "Differential" Balanced Configuration, the understanding of which was way above my paygrade. Not SE; not PP - but bloody good! In any event, they were possibly two of the best-looking power amps I had ever seen. They certainly sounded as good as they looked - and they gave our own impressive CARY 300SE Signature monoblocks a real a spanking. The other two VACUUM STATE products were both tubed pre-amps. An entry level pre-amp and a statement pre-amp; both highly sophisticated and both delivering reference-level sonics. Breathtakingly good. It shocks me not, that you might be extolling the virtues of your JLTi gear, which I understand also originally sprung from the fertile mind of the same ALLEN WRIGHT. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about this...) Back home, we call it "Kiwi Ingenuity!" Seriously though, whilst I love our own tubed rig, I must confess I am a little envious. Old flames linger. Edited January 24, 2023 by SONDEKNZ
Warren M. Posted January 24, 2023 Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) On 24/01/2023 at 2:42 PM, SONDEKNZ said: Warren, I once shadowed a mate who built a number of products from the design genius of (the late) ALLEN WRIGHT - Founder and Chief Designer at VACUUM STATE. As my mate "knocked them up" we used to schedule regular, late-night get-togethers to run his gear on our easy-drive loudspeakers - and discuss how they sounded. (My wife and I had no toddler, back then...) One was a pair of statement 300B monoblocks - DPA-300B - which featured some sort of "Differential" Balanced Configuration, the understanding of which was way above my paygrade. Not SE; not PP - but bloody good! In any event, they were possibly two of the best-looking power amps I had ever seen. They certainly sounded as good as they looked - and they gave our own impressive CARY 300SE Signature monoblocks a real a spanking. The other two VACUUM STATE products were both tubed pre-amps. An entry level pre-amp and a statement pre-amp; both highly sophisticated and both delivering reference-level sonics. Breathtakingly good. It shocks me not, that you might be extolling the virtues of your JLTi gear, which I understand also originally sprung from the fertile mind of the same ALLEN WRIGHT. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about this...) Back home, we call it "Kiwi Ingenuity!" Seriously though, whilst I love our own tubed rig, I must confess I am a little envious. Old flames linger. Expand Allen Wright was my hi fi mentor. I would visit his studio in Wentworth Avenue in Sydney's CBD and revel in the extraordinarily lifelike presentation of music in his "reverse live-end dead-end" listening area. His 4-valve amp, zero-feedback preamp, hand-made cables and much else besides, were a revelation. The relationship between Allen and Joe Rasmussen (JLTi) was much more of a two-way exchange than might be assumed. Joe cut his teeth as a speaker designer, but soon enough was contributing to Allen's electronics designs. The AWE Solid State Phono Preamp was substantially Joe Rasmussen's design and was the precursor of Joe's Solid Diamond phono (which I use and rave about). Years ago, I trialled an earlier version and emphatically preferred my JLTi-reengineered EE MiniMax tube phono, but the latest version (5B) with its redeveloped power supply and other not-so-subtle changes, is mind-blowingly good (and insanely cheap for its performance). It's the only solid state amplification in my music system. If you are ever in Sydney, Tony, you owe it to yourself to head over to Joe's studio in Prestons and have a listen to his astonishing system. Modest in price and presentation, but probably the best system I've ever heard. Edited January 24, 2023 by Warren M. 1
Warren Jones Posted January 25, 2023 Posted January 25, 2023 On 24/01/2023 at 11:18 PM, Warren M. said: Allen Wright was my hi fi mentor. I would visit his studio in Wentworth Avenue in Sydney's CBD and revel in the extraordinarily lifelike presentation of music in his "reverse live-end dead-end" listening area. His 4-valve amp, zero-feedback preamp, hand-made cables and much else besides, were a revelation. The relationship between Allen and Joe Rasmussen (JLTi) was much more of a two-way exchange than might be assumed. Joe cut his teeth as a speaker designer, but soon enough was contributing to Allen's electronics designs. The AWE Solid State Phono Preamp was substantially Joe Rasmussen's design and was the precursor of Joe's Solid Diamond phono (which I use and rave about). Years ago, I trialled an earlier version and emphatically preferred my JLTi-reengineered EE MiniMax tube phono, but the latest version (5B) with its redeveloped power supply and other not-so-subtle changes, is mind-blowingly good (and insanely cheap for its performance). It's the only solid state amplification in my music system. If you are ever in Sydney, Tony, you owe it to yourself to head over to Joe's studio in Prestons and have a listen to his astonishing system. Modest in price and presentation, but probably the best system I've ever heard. Expand Who in Prestons? Next time I visit Sydney I would love to have a listen.
Warren M. Posted January 25, 2023 Posted January 25, 2023 On 25/01/2023 at 1:43 AM, Warren Jones said: Who in Prestons? Next time I visit Sydney I would love to have a listen. Expand Joe Rasmussen, Just Listen To it https://www.customanalogue.com/ 1
Chill3 Posted January 27, 2023 Posted January 27, 2023 The thread is called show us your turntable, please take the discussion in another thread please 8 3
mwhouston Posted February 2, 2023 Posted February 2, 2023 New DIY EAR834p MM phono stage with new series Psvane and Tung-Sol tubes. Rega P3 TT and Garrett P77i cart. Needs 50 hours but so far crystal clear, super transparent and very dynamic. All DIY tube system. 8 2
Rustee Posted February 2, 2023 Posted February 2, 2023 On 02/02/2023 at 2:49 AM, mwhouston said: New DIY EAR834p MM phono stage with new series Psvane and Tung-Sol tubes. Rega P3 TT and Garrett P77i cart. Needs 50 hours but so far crystal clear, super transparent and very dynamic. All DIY tube system. Expand Lovely work. One day I will try tubes. Trying to hold off, I really don't need another temptation to buy more gear! Wish I had the talent to build an amp. Russ 2
Be Quiet...Listen Posted February 2, 2023 Posted February 2, 2023 New to the stable. Given to me by a dear friend and forever grateful! Now, a plinth... decisions... decisions... 19 5 1
Warren Jones Posted February 3, 2023 Posted February 3, 2023 On 02/02/2023 at 10:33 AM, Be Quiet...Listen said: New to the stable. Given to me by a dear friend and forever grateful! Now, a plinth... decisions... decisions... Expand I recently built a Permalli plinth for my SP10 and it's a big improvement over resin/bentonite. Damping is way better. Permalli is not cheap but for a high end plinth a worthwhile investment. 1
Cammyboy0_0 Posted February 4, 2023 Posted February 4, 2023 On 03/02/2023 at 9:34 PM, Warren Jones said: I recently built a Permalli plinth for my SP10 and it's a big improvement over resin/bentonite. Damping is way better. Permalli is not cheap but for a high end plinth a worthwhile investment. Expand Hi Warren, do you have pictures you can share - you have us SP10 owners attention now! cheers Cameron
Warren Jones Posted February 4, 2023 Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) On 04/02/2023 at 7:43 AM, Cammyboy0_0 said: Hi Warren, do you have pictures you can share - you have us SP10 owners attention now! cheers Cameron Expand Embedding the link didn't work it pasted page 1 Go to page 194 the pics of my SP10 are there Edited February 4, 2023 by Warren Jones 1
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