Sounds like a good place to be in...

 

Hopefully i'm not that far off either.

 

Spin  away!

51 minutes ago, andyr said:

An update ... today the strange amp traffo humming noise I detected a few weeks ago ... is gone!  Yay!  

 

So ... amps and spkrs are working as they should - without any "issues".

 

Yesterday, I got out my US cleaning paraphernalia - and have cleaned about 20 LPs I had bought over the last year or so ... but hadn't listened to because I was doing other things than cleaning LPs.  

 

So, @metal beat ... I have finished "tweaking" (for now!) - and will soon start "spinning".  

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 Andy,  great news.  I still feel weird looking at your skeletal speakers compared to your previous Maggie's. 

  But, if they sound better   that really is all that matters. 

 

 Look forward to hearing them if I am dowj in Mexico anytime soon  👍

Edited September 21, 20223 yr by metal beat

15 minutes ago, metal beat said:

 Andy,  great news.  I still feel weird looking at your skeletal speakers compared to your previous Maggie's. 

  But, if they sound better   that really is all that matters. 

 

'Xackly, Shane!  

 

And, yes - they do sound better!  There's nothing that I miss about my Maggies.

 

15 minutes ago, metal beat said:

 Look forward to hearing them if I am down in Mexico anytime soon  👍

 

I'd be delighted to have you visit, mate.  Mebbe next Oz Open?

 

1 hour ago, tubularbells said:

 

Hopefully i'm not that far off either.

 

 

Hopefully, will be having a serious of small gtgs, soon.  You need to bring along that LP (I think it was) - that showed up a bass problem that I had, last time you visited - which, hopefully, I have now solved!  

 

14 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

'Xackly, Shane!  

 

And, yes - they do sound better!  There's nothing that I miss about my Maggies.

 

 

I'd be delighted to have you visit, mate.  Mebbe next Oz Open?

 

 

Hopefully, will be having a serious of small gtgs, soon.  You need to bring along that LP (I think it was) - that showed up a bass problem that I had, last time you visited - which, hopefully, I have now solved!  

 

 

Andy.  4 sure. I have always admired your attn to detail and musical satisfaction. 

   It would be great to spin a few records in your system  👍

1 minute ago, metal beat said:

 

Andy.  4 sure. I have always admired your attn to detail and musical satisfaction. 

   It would be great to spin a few records in your system  👍

 

 

Well, just letting U know, @metal beat, that I have finished my "tweaking" (for now!   ) ... so had a gtg with my 'golden-eared panel', this afternoon, to spin some vinyl.

 

They confirmed that my system has never sounded better - so it would seem that I have indeed been able to vanquish the issues that have been plaguing me for the past several months.  

 

I recently had the time to set up my us cleaning paraphernalia - so had cleaned 20 or so LPs that I had bought over the last couple of years ... but never played, as I hadn't cleaned them (being too busy with other things)!  Amongst the LPs we played, were these:

 

 

 

 

The first two LPs were interesting - as we compared my Japanese release of the 1st Dire Straits album against the MoFi 45rpm version released last year (I think).  I had always thought the Japanese pressing was excellent ... but the MoFi pips it!  

 

Then there was the last Leonard Cohen album - released posthumously and produced by his son.  Excellently recorded.  Followed by Side 1 of "The Wall - Remixed" ... which is definitely "an acquired taste"!  

 

Then the Brandt Brauer Frick double LP "Mr Machine" - which I had enjoyed on @Ittaku's excellent system (although his is a digital recording).  This is tremendously dynamic "electronica" - but played on acoustic instruments!  

 

Finally, Cassandra Wilson singing "Strange Fruit" - the track made famous by Billie Holiday.  Sublime ... although I think that, despite the retrograde recording standards, I prefer Billie Holiday singing it.

 

Then, through the magic of today's technology ... we listened to Con's Roon play list - transferred from his PC via the house WiFi to his phone ... and then by Bluetooth (all at 96kHz) to the streamer/DAC unit he'd brought over ... and then into my system.

 

Sensational!    Sure, a higher level of presentation through Con's system - with his MBLs in a much larger room ... but not too shabby through my system.

 

So now ... to tweak the delays I have implemented between the drivers in my system!  

 

Andy

 

Edited September 27, 20223 yr by andyr

Well, 5 months later I now have finished my exploration into ripping LPs and have my new "ripping system" set up.  This involves:

• A2D conversion of the phono stage output at 24bit/96kHz - same as before but now going into a miniDSP 'USBstreamer' ... which converts coax digital to USB, for input to the PC.
• PC with Intel i7 CPU, 16GB RAM, 2x 2TB Samsung 980 Pro PCle Gen4 SSDs (music files) and 2x WD 250GB PCIe Gen3 SSDs (OS).  The ripping software is 'Audacity'.
• Roon then takes the stored rip-files (FLAC) and streams them.
• this requires a DDHiFi TC100-COA for the output ... which converts USB to coax digital, for entry into the miniDSP nanoDIGI - the heart of my active system.

The whole reason for doing this (ripping my vinyl) is so that I can then use Roon's "convolution capability" to deliver a linear-phase overlay on top of the standard IIR active filters provided by my miniDSP nanoDIGI.  So listening to the ripped vinyl through Roon ... should sound better than playing the vinyl directly!  

 

My 'exploration' system used my backup phono stage - just to prove the concept.  But then it became obvious that I really needed to use one of my own 'Muse' phono stages for the actual ripping process - as this sounds so much better than my backup phono stage (a Hagerman 'Euphonia').

 

So ripping has stopped - until I've finished building my next Muse.

 

In the meantime, I have bought the Audio Silente 'silicone mushrooms', to replace the springs on my SkeletaLinn; these came with some aluminium cylindrical spacers - which required some lathing work (done by @Rustee ), to fit my SkeletaLinn.  The machined spacers are currently in transit - so hopefully at the weekend, I can fit them and the 'mushrooms'. 

 

Andy

 

@andyr: so much setting up & engineering!

(I have at least one LP that does not exist in digital format anywhere that I would know of):

https://www.discogs.com/master/297206-Johnny-Hammond-Smith-Here-It-Tis

 

Perhaps we can arrange a "ripping" session some time!

8 minutes ago, Steff said:

@andyr: so much setting up & engineering!

(I have at least one LP that does not exist in digital format anywhere that I would know of):

https://www.discogs.com/master/297206-Johnny-Hammond-Smith-Here-It-Tis

 

Perhaps we can arrange a "ripping" session some time!

 

Hah - yes, it took a bit of work to sort out the RCA digital to USB conversions.  

 

I'd be delighted to rip that LP of yours - you have a choice:

1. sooner - using my current Hagerman phono stage
2. or in a few months time, when my Muse is operational.

The ripped file will sound better with option #2!.

 

Just PM me, to organise.

 

Well, yesterday arvo, we moved a good step up!  

 

Con ( @Ittaku ) came over with his mic & laptop to measure how my 'zero baffle' spkrs sound, in the room, once all the EQ which I had included in my miniDSP configuration ... had been removed.

 

Then he implemented a 'FIR overlay' for Roon which:

1. corrected the phase changes across the two crossover regions (subs --> mid/bass @ 110Hz and mid/bass --> tweeters @ 2800Hz) which are an inherent result of using standard IIR filters - whether passive, analogue active or miniDSP.
2. and implemented a gradually falling frequency curve, from LF to HF.

 

Using my miniDSP, it was easy to compare this new setup with my original configuration:

1.  select Config #1 in the miniDSP (which has my manual efforts for EQ, which I had got using many REW sweeps and the miniDSP' unit's capabilities) and turn off the 'FIR overlay' in Roon

vs.

2.  select Config #2 (no EQ in the miniDSP - only XOs) and turn on the 'FIR overlay' in Roon.

 

We were all - the others in the gtg were @buddyev & @Keith_W - able to hear the benefits of #2.  

 

We then did the final test - comparing:

1.  a vinyl track played directly - ie. outside of Roon, with Config #1 in the miniDSP

against

2.  the same track which I had already ripped, played through Roon with the 'FIR overlay' enabled and Config #2 in the miniDSP.

 

Again, #2 sounded better.  Yay!  

 

Yep it's sounding great Andy. Additionally it's probably a flatter curve overall than a manually implemented eq curve, and there are no boosted regions so there is never any risk of the DSP clipping the input signal.

Andy, what was Roon running on and can you route the TT through the Roon processor?

 

I'm wondering if it's worth experimenting with.

Hi Warren,

 

17 minutes ago, Warren Jones said:

Andy, what was Roon running on

 

It is running on a new, dedicated PC with:

• Intel i7 processor with 16GB RAM
• 2x Samsung 2TB NVMe Gen 4 SSDs in a RAID 1 configuration (for music files)
• 2x WD 250MB NVMe Gen 3 SSDs in a RAID 1 config (for OS).

 

17 minutes ago, Warren Jones said:

and can you route the TT through the Roon processor?

 

I understood initially that I needed to rip my LPs to FLAC files - so Roon could get hold of them.

 

However, on the Roon Forum, someone suggested I use 'IceCast' to set up a local radio station on my PC - which Roon would then be able to address.

 

IOW, the output from my A2D converter goes into the PC (via USB) - just like it does with ripping - but IceCast can grab it live ... and then Roon can use this feed as a "local radio station".

 

This removes the need to rip LPs - and would be purrfect; I'm in the process of setting up IceCast!

 

17 minutes ago, Warren Jones said:

I'm wondering if it's worth experimenting with.

 

I thoroughly recommend it, mate!

 

Edited March 21, 20232 yr by andyr

The flight deck — it's all way beyond my feeble understanding but it sounds excellent.

 

 

6 minutes ago, buddyev said:

The flight deck — it's all way beyond my feeble understanding but it sounds excellent.

 

 

 

Holy smokes! What a setup

 

Will be following this thread with much interest. Really enjoying the way you have experimented with filters via minidsp and Roon and feeding a turntable through this digital process.

1 minute ago, wikeeboy said:

Holy smokes! What a setup

 

Will be following this thread with much interest. Really enjoying the way you have experimented with filters via minidsp and Roon and feeding a turntable through this digital process.

 

Thank you, wb!  

 

It's worth noting that Andy has way more processing power than he needs for the roon duties. However I had an evil plan which is to ultimately get him to remove the nanodigi, and use 3 chained outputs with roon direct to the DACs, using convolution to do the crossover duties as well. Given everything else has worked out well, I'm sure we'll do that long term. Once Andy gets icecast going for his vinyl output working, it will be a comprehensive solution.

2 hours ago, Ittaku said:

It's worth noting that Andy has way more processing power than he needs for the roon duties. However I had an evil plan which is to ultimately get him to remove the nanodigi, and use 3 chained outputs with roon direct to the DACs, using convolution to do the crossover duties as well. Given everything else has worked out well, I'm sure we'll do that long term.

 

Absoloootely, Con!  

 

The big advantage that I see is that it's the nanoDIGI - which is limited to 96kHz - which is stopping me switching my A2D converter to 192kHz.

 

With the PC providing the XOs ... I presume we can tell Roon to run at 192kHz?

 

The only worry I have about doing this ... is making sure we have a foolproof method of getting the sub, mid/bass & tweeter data streams going into the correct DACs!  

 

2 hours ago, Ittaku said:

Once Andy gets icecast going for his vinyl output working, it will be a comprehensive solution.

 

And 2 steps up from where we are now (the 1st step up will be to get IceCast to stream my vinyl, on the fly).

 

6 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Absoloootely, Con!  

 

The big advantage that I see is that it's the nanoDIGI - which is limited to 96kHz - which is stopping me switching my A2D converter to 192kHz.

 

With the PC providing the XOs ... I presume we can tell Roon to run at 192kHz?

 

The only worry I have about doing this ... is making sure we have a foolproof method of getting the sub, mid/bass & tweeter data streams going into the correct DACs!  

 

 

And 2 steps up from where we are now (the 1st step up will be to get IceCast to stream my vinyl, on the fly).

 

You will in fact be able to run Roon at whatever native frequency is incoming, and send it to those DACs actually at 384 and 352. Using integer upsampling to multiples of 44 and 48 according to the incoming material is lossless unlike resampling to 96 for all inputs as you're currently doing (which is fine for vinyl rips but not any non-96 source material). Getting it to the correct DACs is indeed the biggest concern since they'll all appear as the same device. Once connected they'll be fine but powering them down may confuse things (hopefully Roon is smart enough to have enough of the unique identifier that it doesn't have a problem.) Additionally you'll be able to do all the volume control from within Roon, not needing to use the unreliable coordinated remote control volume method you're currently using.

Yup, I agree it made a huge difference. 

BTW Andy, as I pointed out to you yesterday, you already have all the equipment you need to design and implement correction filters yourself. You need is the mic, and the software is free. All you need to do is learn how to do it, and then you can refine it as much as you want to and design any target curve that you like. As I mentioned, I have a different preference for a target curve, and you probably have your own preference as well (you may not know what it looks like yet!). Con picked the low hanging fruit yesterday and it already made a substantial improvement. There is so much more you can do. 

 

I have also finished designing my new crossover for my system and it sounded really amazing when I tried it last night. Because I have no confidence that my mic is giving me the correct results, I did it with a combination of measurement and listening. I think when I get my mic recalibrated (or buy a new one) it will be even better, but it is hard to imagine how it could possibly sound better than how I have set it at the moment. Maybe I should pay you a visit to borrow your mic  

Well done @andyr

I recall you mentioned the FIR possibility loooong ago!

 

Very kind efforts by @Ittaku, but not in the least surprising, one of the good guys

On 22/03/2023 at 6:40 PM, tripitaka said:

Well done @andyr

I recall you mentioned the FIR possibility loooong ago!

 

Very kind efforts by @Ittaku, but not in the least surprising, one of the good guys

 

And there's more!  

 

Con came over yesterday and now Roon is able to accept an 'Icecast' live stream (as a local radio station), of an LP which is playing.

 

So now I can:

• play my LPs through Roon - with its convolution upgrade to my spkrs
• and not have to go to the ginormous effort of ripping all my LPs to disk!

Life is sweeeeeet!  

 

The room and speakers sound wonderful, the SkeletaLinn & Hagerman Euphonia sing very beautifully together.

I compared your 24/96 FLAC of Johnny Hammond Smith's Here it 'Tis with (macbook air > USB > DAC downsampled to 44.1khz > amp) with the vinyl spinning back here (Pioneer > amp)...My own turntable/amp come up second best with some air in between. Food for thought.

 

Thanks for a great afternoon and sending me on my way with two rare vinyl encodes!

A real pleasure, @Steff.  

 

Enjoy the rips.  

 

Winter amps back in the system!  

 

 

 

Class A goodness sounding sweeet!