10 hours ago, Jones99 said:

Any more thoughts on the Cygnus? They settling in nicely?

Firstly, being 130kg each (210kg in crates) I do not want to move house anytime soon!  3 people required to install the beasts.  Installation was part of the agreed price fortunately, and the guys at PMG were absolutely meticulous about every detail.

 

My music room has plush carpet flooring, and each cygnus sits on 4 solid milled aluminium feet. No spikes.  I had some furniture sliders ready to go, but they didnt work and we ended up shuffling each cygnus into position.  The combination of broad contact footing and thick carpet means they will some time to properly bed in i think.

 

With that said, the most obvious differences at this early stage (compared to my previous speakers) are in the mids.  The reason i purchased these speakers was for the mid-range timbre.  Nothing i have previously heard gave a more life-like sound to instruments and voices.  That quality is clearly apparent in my room now.

 

I will write some more on the other differences a bit later.

Further thoughts...

 

I’ll try to avoid using hyperbole when describing the Rockports.  What I think is useful is to give comparisons in performance, alluding to their sound relative to similar speakers.  In all my comparisons I used my Mola Mola Kaluga amplifiers with my Shunyata Sigma PCs, that I deem essential to extracting the best sound from these amps.  However, I could not audition most of the new contenders in my own room, so room differences were an uncontrolled variable.

 

Music: I used a set list of streamed music for listening comparisons. I can share what I use if there is interest.  I don’t use a turntable as I don’t own any vinyl.

 

PMC MB2se vs Rockport Cygnus:  Having lived with the big PMCs for over 7 years, this was an easy comparison..  In the bass the PMCs dig very deep, but the attack and decay of the lowest octave is slow and loose in comparison to the Rockports.  The rear ported Rockports should theoretically suffer with chuffing, but compared to the PMCs, the bass sound clean and deep.  In the mids the PMCs are comparatively drier sounding, revealing less of richness in strings and vocals.  The PMC crossover may be partly to blame, but the Cygnus are clearly offering greater resolution and naturalness. In the higher frequencies, the soft dome PMCs sound just as airy and extended as the Rockports.  There is more delicacy in Cygnus, offering a slightly smoother, softer, rounded treble, which is in turn more dimensional in height and depth.  The PMCs do very well in this area, but the Cygnus presentation can go quite a bit louder without getting harsh.

 

Magico S5 v2 vs Rockport Cygnus: First up, a disclaimer.  I did also listen to the Magico M2 with mPods, which was within my budget ( just), but did not fulfil my deep bass requirements.  In other facets, the M2 was a better competitor for the Cygnus.  Magico S5 v2 bass is... awesome.  Deeper than anything else in this comparison, whilst maintaining speed and articulation.  If this was about deep bass alone, the S5s would be in my room now instead of the Rockies.  In the mids, the S5s offer nice detail that is (again) drier than what the Cygnus offer.  The S5s offer speed and detail in the mids, but to my ears the Cygnus allowed more natural attack and decay of notes.  Interestingly both the Cygnus and the S5s utilise beryllium tweeters, but they sound very different.  The S5s sound more extended and very airy, which I would normally jump at.  In comparison the Cygnus sound smoother and more composed.  Again, played very loud, the Cygnus hold their composure better.  The soundstage on the S5s was nice and wide and tall, but a bit less deep - the M2s offered noticeably better depth, for the record.

 

Wilson Alexia vs Rockport Cygnus: These are 2 really great speakers.  I suspect some of the differences I heard were room dependent and amplifier dependent, and in spite of this, there were more similarities than differences.  Bass was no difference in my opinion.  Likewise the mids were very close.  There was real sense of absolute neutrality with Wilson’s which is highly appealing.  The Cygnus, in comparison offer something with a bit of warmth.  I personally found that this warmth mated better with my Mola Mola amps.  The treble in the Alexia’s can be dialled in according to taste to some degree.  In the setup I heard, the treble was not as extended or airy as the Cygnus, but did match the Cygnus for imaging and delicacy.  One thing that stood out in the treble was the Cygnus offering more density and smoothness, the Alexia again offering something I would refer to as more neutral.

 

I’ll just re-iterate, these are just my own thoughts, with my music and my preferences.

Congrats on the speaker choice.  Many great speakers out there for us to compare and finally choose the right one that suits our listening preferences.  Nice size room too.

A small get-together at my place today.

 

@frednork, @Assisi and Paul paid a visit. 

 

Paul shared his absolutely priceless experiences from his live music travels...

 

There was wine, cheese, and some good fun.

 

@Assisi brought some new toys to try out... the ENO ethernet "filter" and a similar device from Waversa.

 

@frednork brought his testing gear over and he built a few DSP filters for me to try later.

 

@TerryOrequested photos, so here they are:

 

A wonderful afternoon listening to a superb system.  The wine and food was excellent.  The Rockport speakers and the sound stage are amazing.  Much talking during the afternoon.  We solved the problems of the world. 

 

 

 

Paul has heard, met and listened live at some time to probably most of the serious rock and other musicians and bands from the absolute top echelon elite to the lesser known but still important over the past 20+ years.  The experiences and his knowledge are fascinating.  He has collected vinyl since he was in school in Ireland since the 70s.  With John’s setup, Paul thought that he was listening to a live performance of some of his favourites.

 

 

 

The Ethernet filters are work in progress.  I left the ENO with John for some more serious evaluation.  I took the the Waversa home as I didn’t want to be parted from it.  I had only had it for less than a week.  The Waversa is the EXT-1 Reference which is very new.  There is no mention of it anywhere on the internet at this time.  It has not yet been officially announced and released.  Stock will not arrive in the US until later this week.  Luckily through serendipity, there was one in Australia that I have acquired.

 

Thanks John

 

John

Edited November 14, 20214 yr by Assisi
words

Many thanks @Stereophilus for the invitation to your home.  I have not seen such a beautiful room and setup previously and something definitely to aspire to.  The system sounded so effortless and unbelievably smooth and did everything it should.  It was such a treat!.

 

The afternoon flew by and for some of the afternoon the system was ignored (I did feel a bit guilty about that) as the relaxed and candid chats going on were too compelling!   

 

A very fun afternoon!!

 

 

Yes, this afternoon reminded me of everything we have been sorely missing with lockdowns in Victoria.  It also reminded me of why I love this hobby.

 

It was a pleasure to play host to 3 very learned guests.  I have to thank them all for making the journey to visit.

 

Mark with his knowledge and expertise in DSP and room correction offered me a fascinating insight into my setup.  I am still playing around with the 3 different convolution filters he left on my system.  Each one is slightly different, but so far, Mark, number 3 is my favourite.  Although, I have to say, I slightly prefer the sound without DSP on early listening.  There was some variability with the measurements that may account for my preference.

 

John was in great form today, and did generously leave the ENO Ethernet filter with me to continue trialling.  It clearly does something (to me anyway), and from what I hear, it is very similar to the AIM Shieldio cables  effect in that imaging focus seems tighter and more distinct.  I need to listen more to this.  We listened to the Waversa EXT-1 reference as well.  I did not get a good chance to compare this, but again, my impression is that it did make some difference.  I don’t want to comment too much on this without a proper listen.

 

And Paul… Wow.  This guy has lived a life! His knowledge of music and performers is nigh on encyclopaedic, and he has been to more concerts around the world than I knew had ever been played.  What’s more, he’s been collecting rare vinyl since he was born (practically) and getting it signed at all the gigs he attends (which is a lot!). I almost felt guilty playing streamed music for this guy! But he was very polite and allowed me to proceed despite my lack of an analog front end.

 

I learned so much in such a short space of time and feel very privileged to be part of a broader audiophile community that is so diverse.

 

On 22/11/2020 at 9:37 AM, Stereophilus said:

Further thoughts...

 

I’ll try to avoid using hyperbole when describing the Rockports.  What I think is useful is to give comparisons in performance, alluding to their sound relative to similar speakers.  In all my comparisons I used my Mola Mola Kaluga amplifiers with my Shunyata Sigma PCs, that I deem essential to extracting the best sound from these amps.  However, I could not audition most of the new contenders in my own room, so room differences were an uncontrolled variable.

 

Music: I used a set list of streamed music for listening comparisons. I can share what I use if there is interest.  I don’t use a turntable as I don’t own any vinyl.

 

PMC MB2se vs Rockport Cygnus:  Having lived with the big PMCs for over 7 years, this was an easy comparison..  In the bass the PMCs dig very deep, but the attack and decay of the lowest octave is slow and loose in comparison to the Rockports.  The rear ported Rockports should theoretically suffer with chuffing, but compared to the PMCs, the bass sound clean and deep.  In the mids the PMCs are comparatively drier sounding, revealing less of richness in strings and vocals.  The PMC crossover may be partly to blame, but the Cygnus are clearly offering greater resolution and naturalness. In the higher frequencies, the soft dome PMCs sound just as airy and extended as the Rockports.  There is more delicacy in Cygnus, offering a slightly smoother, softer, rounded treble, which is in turn more dimensional in height and depth.  The PMCs do very well in this area, but the Cygnus presentation can go quite a bit louder without getting harsh.

 

Magico S5 v2 vs Rockport Cygnus: First up, a disclaimer.  I did also listen to the Magico M2 with mPods, which was within my budget ( just), but did not fulfil my deep bass requirements.  In other facets, the M2 was a better competitor for the Cygnus.  Magico S5 v2 bass is... awesome.  Deeper than anything else in this comparison, whilst maintaining speed and articulation.  If this was about deep bass alone, the S5s would be in my room now instead of the Rockies.  In the mids, the S5s offer nice detail that is (again) drier than what the Cygnus offer.  The S5s offer speed and detail in the mids, but to my ears the Cygnus allowed more natural attack and decay of notes.  Interestingly both the Cygnus and the S5s utilise beryllium tweeters, but they sound very different.  The S5s sound more extended and very airy, which I would normally jump at.  In comparison the Cygnus sound smoother and more composed.  Again, played very loud, the Cygnus hold their composure better.  The soundstage on the S5s was nice and wide and tall, but a bit less deep - the M2s offered noticeably better depth, for the record.

 

Wilson Alexia vs Rockport Cygnus: These are 2 really great speakers.  I suspect some of the differences I heard were room dependent and amplifier dependent, and in spite of this, there were more similarities than differences.  Bass was no difference in my opinion.  Likewise the mids were very close.  There was real sense of absolute neutrality with Wilson’s which is highly appealing.  The Cygnus, in comparison offer something with a bit of warmth.  I personally found that this warmth mated better with my Mola Mola amps.  The treble in the Alexia’s can be dialled in according to taste to some degree.  In the setup I heard, the treble was not as extended or airy as the Cygnus, but did match the Cygnus for imaging and delicacy.  One thing that stood out in the treble was the Cygnus offering more density and smoothness, the Alexia again offering something I would refer to as more neutral.

 

I’ll just re-iterate, these are just my own thoughts, with my music and my preferences.

Hi,

Noting your long experience with the PMC mb2se and it is tri-wired compatible, during the time  did you try out various speaker cable/jumper combinations on the 3 sets of binding posts?

1 hour ago, cyberkank said:

Hi,

Noting your long experience with the PMC mb2se and it is tri-wired compatible, during the time  did you try out various speaker cable/jumper combinations on the 3 sets of binding posts?

I did try bi-wiring, without much improvement, but the best results I got were achieved when I replaced the brass terminal connector with pure silver Aurealis jumper cables.  That’s not to say I tried lots of different things, because I didn’t… but the Aurealis jumpers were a clear upgrade and also quite reasonably priced.

A recent update to my system:

 

As some of you may know I have been trying out new mono power amplifiers for the Rockports over the last 12 months or so.  Nothing wrong with the Mola Mola Kalugas, in fact they bested most of the newer power amplifiers I heard.  My desire to pursue an upgrade was therefore really only being driven at a slow pace.  I initially tried out Audionet Max amplifiers which gave some idea of what the brand could offer, without (overall) surpassing what the Kalugas were already giving me.  But when the Heisenberg’s visited I knew they were special… clean minimalist design aside, they offered a level of naturalness, clarity, transparency and control I’ve not heard with the Rockports previously.  These are serious end-game mono amplifiers that gave me a new reference and a not insubstantial savings goal.

 

I subsequently spent several months trying to match or better what I had heard from the Heisenbergs with various monobloc designs from Swiss, American, Japanese and British designers to no avail.  Perhaps there was some degree of synergy between the Rockports and the Heisenbergs, but it became quite clear to me that the Heisenbergs were the only legitimate upgrade path for what I wanted.  This journey was destined to continue for a while longer until I recently became aware of a rare opportunity to purchase a pair of Heisenberg’s second hand.  Needless to say I have jumped at the opportunity and have now got them installed.  
 

I am very happy with the results and can highly recommend the combination of Audionet Heisenberg with Rockport Cygnus.

 

 

Edited May 8, 20223 yr by Stereophilus
Spelling

Just a slight size difference in boxes.

6 minutes ago, PKay said:

Just a slight size difference in boxes.

Indeed, although impressively, despite their size and weight (50kg each I think) the Heisenbergs run quite cool owing to excellent ventilation in the design.

 

WOW!

I am heading there, I am sure.

The Humboldt is amazing, I can't seem to find its upper limits, but the Heisenbergs are arguably the best available power amps.

Do you care to wax lyrical about them? The combo with Makua may be special- I have heard that the Stern is (whilst excellent) not as goods as the Heisenbergs.

PS if you see another second-hand pair, let me know

Edited May 8, 20223 yr by ICUToo

2 hours ago, ICUToo said:

The Humboldt is amazing, I can't seem to find its upper limits, but the Heisenbergs are arguably the best available power amps.

Yes, Humboldt is cut from the same mould as the Heisenbergs and shares much in common with them.  No doubt very similar sound.

2 hours ago, ICUToo said:

Do you care to wax lyrical about them? The combo with Makua may be special- I have heard that the Stern is (whilst excellent) not as goods as the Heisenbergs.

If you have the Humboldt then you already know.  I made a choice to avoid valve power amps intentionally (generally speaking I find valve amps are more fault prone, deliver less current, and make more heat) despite some benefits they may have.  The Heisenbergs to my ears offer the most relaxed and natural sound from my speakers, and have more deep bass than even the class D Kalugas.  

2 hours ago, ICUToo said:

PS if you see another second-hand pair, let me know

😏

Now  that's some serious amplification. A trip out there is looking more desirable by the minute. Gratz on the upgrade. Their XLR impedance seems quite low, what's the output impedance like upstream to drive them? I know the Molas are purported to be very low impedance.

Edited May 9, 20223 yr by Ittaku

20 hours ago, Stereophilus said:

I am very happy with the results and can highly recommend the combination of Audionet Heisenberg with Rockport Cygnus.

 

That is some seriously good gear!  Congrats on achieving such a wonderful combo.

8 hours ago, Ittaku said:

Their XLR impedance seems quite low, what's the output impedance like upstream to drive them? I know the Molas are purported to be very low impedance.

You picked up on that as well.  It was probably my main concern pre-audition.  Heisenbergs are a single ended design which has a balanced input for those who need it.  7k ohms input impedance is quite low in SS power amplifiers.  The Mola Mola Makua is only balanced output with an excellent output impedance of 44 ohms. So the ratio is 160 and the Makua easily drives the Heisenbergs, but I'd probably look at finding a way to drive their SE inputs if possible, just to try it out on principle.

 

Simple Jaycar adapters (balanced to SE) seem to raise the noise floor.  Maybe I should see if Geoff at Aurealis can make me a Balanced to SE cable?

3 minutes ago, Stereophilus said:

You picked up on that as well.  It was probably my main concern pre-audition.  Heisenbergs are a single ended design which has a balanced input for those who need it.  7k ohms input impedance is quite low in SS power amplifiers.  The Mola Mola Makua is only balanced output with an excellent output impedance of 44 ohms. So the ratio is 160 and the Makua easily drives the Heisenbergs, but I'd probably look at finding a way to drive their SE inputs if possible, just to try it out on principle.

 

Simple Jaycar adapters (balanced to SE) seem to raise the noise floor.  Maybe I should see if Geoff at Aurealis can make me a Balanced to SE cable?

Nah I'd say keep it. That's a huge and ample ratio and it can only sound worse if you convert from its native output format IMO. It's actually more ratio than I'm dealing with because of the three different outputs the preamp has to drive.

25 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Nah I'd say keep it. That's a huge and ample ratio and it can only sound worse if you convert from its native output format IMO. It's actually more ratio than I'm dealing with because of the three different outputs the preamp has to drive.

Ok, good to know.

 

I wonder how the Heisenberg implements it’s balanced input to cause the input impedance of 7k ohms to be so much lower than the SE input impedance of 50k ohms?

1 hour ago, Stereophilus said:

Ok, good to know.

 

I wonder how the Heisenberg implements it’s balanced input to cause the input impedance of 7k ohms to be so much lower than the SE input impedance of 50k ohms?

No idea, I'm no expert in amp designs, but it's not unique. I think the magtechs are even more extreme in their impedance difference if I recall correctly.

Considering the matching pre is higher than the makua, probably not a biggie

Output impedance:

24 Ω real (Cinch line) 48 Ω real (XLR)

20 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

No idea, I'm no expert in amp designs, but it's not unique. I think the magtechs are even more extreme in their impedance difference if I recall correctly.

I’ve asked Roger Sanders this question in the past. Happy to post his reply but don’t want to take @Stereophilus thread off on a tangent. 

1 hour ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

I’ve asked Roger Sanders this question in the past. Happy to post his reply but don’t want to take @Stereophilus thread off on a tangent. 

Nah, all good, I posed the question in this thread, so I’d value the answer posted here.

My question 

Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 2:25 PM

Subject: Magtech Input impedance

 

Hi Roger

 

I was just looking at the input impedance specs for the magtech on your website.

It states that unbalanced is 100k but balanced is only 1k. is this correct (the balanced seems quite low)

 

regards

Trevor

 

His reply:

 

HI Trevor,

 

The Magtech input impedance specification is correct.  Note that a lot of professional equipment has a 600 ohm input impedance, so there is nothing unusual about us using a 1K input impedance.  All transistor equipment can drive 600 ohms, so this is never a problem.   

 

Note that the lower the impedance, the lower the noise.  That is why professional equipment tends to use very low impedances.  

 

Well-designed tube preamps have cathode follower output buffers that had output impedances that are low enough to drive a 1K load.  For those tube preamps that have a higher output impedance, all the owner need to do is use the Magtech's unbalanced, 100K input as this will be compatible with any tube preamp.   In fact, most solid state amplifiers have an input impedance of 10K - 20K, which makes them incompatible with some high impedance tube preamps.  But the Magtech's 100K input impedance will be compatible with all tube preamps.  

 

Great listening,

-Roger

 

18 hours ago, Stereophilus said:

Simple Jaycar adapters (balanced to SE) seem to raise the noise floor.  Maybe I should see if Geoff at Aurealis can make me a Balanced to SE cable?

 

As a general rule I wouldn't go from balanced to unbalanced if the power amp had a balanced input.  I haven't found any transformers/converters that would do the job as well as a well implemented conversion in the power amp. I would expect that the implementation in the Audionet is of the highest order  and I can't imagine it could be replicated as well at the preamp output.  Besides, you would lose some benefit of noise cancellation between the devices.

 

Going from SE preamp to balanced power amp however is a different story with options such as the Ypsilon BC-1