I'm cheating here ... this thread title is a knock off from a thread on another audio forum, over 10 years ago(!) - I'll leave it as an exercise for anyone interested to track it down ... 😄.

 

The theme is the same now as back then, because nothing's changed - well, the gear's changed; but the process hasn't.

 

I decided to kick this off, because the the origins of audio quality thread has been closed down - this is a space for me to respond to the last comments there, and add further thoughts ... ta dah.

 

Going to be a busy day, so I'll leave it as just this for the moment ...

Edited August 16, 20232 yr by fas42

🍿

@fas42 if you are starting a thread on Stereonet please post your thread on Stereonet rather than directing people to comment on a thread from a different forum 

@ENIGMA stated,

 

Quote

If only you experienced Joz's system, it does more than knock your socks off and can cause one to pertarade.

 

Did a bit of checking, and found the thread, and then video of his rig in operation; the latter I have seen before - yes, this is throwing the full bells and whistles at it, to get SPLs - which, obviously works 🙂. As a side note, it's interesting how many Aussie loudspeaker makers have done their 'statement' model using this style of cabinet - have bumped into a number of them; and at the time of buying the kit for my original digital rig, the 'grandfather' of them was in the demo room ... yes, the big Duntechs! How did they sound ?? Hmmm, okay - it didn't bowl me over ...

 

Being active makes a sizeable difference - but size in itself is nothing ... you only have to go to a local pub, with PA speakers the size of bookshelf units serving the visiting band, to know that earshredding volumes are possible from a small volume cabinet. Yes, to get clarity, accuracy, and decently low distortion low bass is whole different exercise - I visited the home of the Pymble audio shop chappy decades ago, can't recall his name, and heard what the classic Goldmund, ARC, Infinity combo could do; reference vinyl sound - but his CD player lost a lot of detail.

 

I'm happy with getting the most from small size at the moment; if wanting to scale in SPLs, then more ambitious bass drivers would be needed, if the very last ounce of the lowest bass was desired - something for down the track, perhaps, 🙂

 

 

Edited August 16, 20232 yr by fas42

Hi Fas42,

 

Nothing you can google will ever appreciate what its like actually seeing and hearing this system (or any other system) in person as i have with Joz's system.

 

SPL's is not what its about but it has the capacity to do so in a controlled, refined and quality way.  But its not about SPL at all if you were to look at the fundamentals around why Joz and i have physically large speakers.

 

I have a one of a kind horn system that is as tall as Joz's speakers - yes size does matter when it comes to sound reproduction compared to bookshelf speakers but its not the end all or be all.

 

Quality matters. And  physics is physics - a large driver will move more air than a small one - i use a large horn with respect to a tiny driver. 

 

You can't look at an image and assume what the designer has done, let alone know how it sounds.

 

And i have in contrast a pair of small concrete sphere speakers (look up sophera speakers) - they fill my room too with fantastic bass but are very small,

 

Quality!

 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, ENIGMA said:

Hi Fas42,

 

Nothing you can google will ever appreciate what its like actually seeing and hearing this system (or any other system) in person as i have with Joz's system.

 

Yes, to experience the immersiveness of 'effortless', high level, sound is necessary, to understand what's possible.

 

13 minutes ago, ENIGMA said:

 

SPL's is not what its about but it has the capacity to do so in a controlled, refined and quality way.  But its not about SPL at all if you were to look at the fundamentals around why Joz and i have physically large speakers.

 

Controlled, refined, quality is essential. Physically large speakers win, because they are usually always very heavy. With quite inert panels. I achieve this with small speakers, like my Edifiers, by mass loading - effectively making them feel like they are many, many times larger, if you lightly push on the side of them.

 

13 minutes ago, ENIGMA said:

 

I have a one of a kind horn system that is as tall as Joz's speakers - yes size does matter when it comes to sound reproduction compared to bookshelf speakers but its not the end all or be all.

 

Quality matters. And  physics is physics - a large driver will move more air than a small one - i use a large horn with respect to a tiny driver. 

 

Only in the deep bass does a lot of air have to be moved; everywhere else just a reasonably linear driver will do the job.

 

13 minutes ago, ENIGMA said:

 

You can't look at an image and assume what the designer has done, let alone know how it sounds.

 

And i have in contrast a pair of small concrete sphere speakers (look up sophera speakers) - they fill my room too with fantastic bass but are very small,

 

Quality!

 

Only just heard of Sophera speakers, from you. And yes, that's the idea - I agree 100% with the concept here ...

And, I just realised - you posted this in the showcase your system & build thread.

 

 

Edited August 17, 20232 yr by ENIGMA

2 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Only just heard of Sophera speakers, from you. And yes, that's the idea - I agree 100% with the concept here ...

 

Yes, you'll like them i think noting the scale you are appealing to. And, no crossover.

 

Now compare that with large horn system n the same room and its interesting.  Can't be any further from each other but on one occasion one person for a moment didn't know which speakers they were listening to.

 

There is a difference obviously on a larger scale and the spheres have a large soundstage which is why for a moment it got them thinking.

 

 

19 hours ago, ENIGMA said:

 

Yes, you'll like them i think noting the scale you are appealing to. And, no crossover.

 

Now compare that with large horn system n the same room and its interesting.  Can't be any further from each other but on one occasion one person for a moment didn't know which speakers they were listening to.

 

There is a difference obviously on a larger scale and the spheres have a large soundstage which is why for a moment it got them thinking.

 

 

 

The bit, "one person for a moment didn't know which speakers they were listening to", is right on the money - if a system is accurate, then what you hear should be the same as that heard on another accurate system, irrespective of the technologies used, and the look of them - they are both a 'window onto the captured musical event'.

 

Which is how I've worked with the various combos of gear over the years - how close is the latest rig in recreating the best instance I ever heard of some album, with always the possibility of bettering that one moment? So, the current DVD player and actives are in some areas in front of my first competent setup, 3 decades ago; but in other aspects still haven't achieved the peak of what they did.

 

Cheers, Frank

@fas42 you posted this thread in the “ Showcase your system” sub-forum. We’re yet to see any of that. 

Instead you are dragging quotes over from other threads that have already been closed - both here and on other audio forums. 

Let’s see some showcasing of your system please 
 

The beginning:

 

Quote

And, some news!! A new toy is on its way ... the Behringer active monitors I got some years ago turned out to need too much fiddling, tweaking to be a good candidate for a value for money, tarting up exercise - and, just came across something, literally today, that is a more visually acceptable, and capable active speaker, meaning digital in, 🙂 ... cross my fingers that this can deliver the goods, at a low effort cost.

 

Quote

 

And, they've just arrived - first impressions, on unboxing, impressive - for the money, 😉! Very meaty, looks good ... now to see if it works, etc, 🙂. ... And they do ... again, impressive - from dead cold, first disk tried, they did a very nice job with Beethoven Violin Sonatas, with Perlman and Ashkenazy - the same one as on my YouTube channel ... good tonality, can't pick anything obviously wrong - a solid tick!

 

Can anyone guess the brand - and, price?

 

 

Quote

 

Nice try, 😉 ... Edifier S2000 Pros; in US dollars, 260 ...,

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Not the stands though, they're extra. Obviously a copy of the style of a well regarded brand; in the flesh, they look and feel as impressive as the photo implies, pass the rap test easily - way more weighty than my original B&Ws, not a single thing gives the impression that they're a cheapie.

 

Hooked up, they deliver. Absolutely nothing done to optimise, just plugged in to test if they work - fed via optical, which, fool me 😜, I have never used before,and didn't trigger on the plastic caps - from an Aldi Blu-ray player. Listened all the way through on the first 2 CDs, the second was https://www.allmusic.com/album/no-1-blues-album-mw0001037012. All the guts, drive and balls of the bass solid tracks on this came over beautifully - Big Sound, easy peasy.

 

Perfect? Of course not!! More refinement, better treble, greater clarity and soundstage - but a solid foundation; easily livable with, straight out of the delivery box.

 

 

11 minutes ago, fas42 said:

from an Aldi Blu-ray player.

 

Quote

This is a nicely done presentation of Edifiers speakers which are a clone visually of what I use; different model number, and some upgrades, but you get a sense of the polish of these units - the company does a massive range of these sort of speakers.

 

 

Zero tweaking, just thrown on the floor, no obvious defects ... a good starting point ...

Edited August 17, 20232 yr by fas42

Full marks for confidence with your choice of thread title ('Search for truth' etc). 

Others might even have considered an entry under 'Humble rigs' for a $500 hifi system like this one🙂

 

57 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

 

The story with this,

 

Quote

 

Day 2 of running the new beasts ...first, some technical minuses: regularly get a noise blatt! at the start and end of playback, something not muting at this point, possibly the Blu-ray player - no worse than a vinyl cartridge coming down a bit fast, it doesn't bother me; playing at very, very low level, with ear right against the speakers - this is using digital gain control, somewhere - there are some digital artifacts coming and going, depending on what is happening in the signal - will need to investigate more; and, the system got into a strange state yesterday, where it just pumped out white noise: I wasn't there at the time, but I suspect the Blu-ray player, Bev was playing with one of the huge rack of remotes that everyone has, and the disc had paused while playing - possibly it "saw" a strange command, and misbehaved as a result of that.

 

Very pleased so far with its native ability - doing very well in the "there is no such thing as a bad recording!" sense - classical comes across very well, what's missing is absolute sweetness of massed strings, and rich, massed choir and orchestra sections in the track are not clear enough ... yet, 😁.

 

 

and,

 

Quote

 

A touch more tweaking of cables, and improving the locking of the speakers to a solid base, and I will have to repeat, I'm very, very impressed with these digital in speakers - all the grunt in the world to present an intense orchestral workout, at comparable to live listening levels, with zero indications of any audible issues ... so far, I have felt no need to dive inside and see what could be done there.

 

Biggest annoyance is that the Blue-ray player, as a cheapy and with a bit of age on it, is fussy with recognising CDs - OK with DVDs, but too many music discs are spat out, for no obvious reason - will have a go at cleaning the lens, etc.

 

So, these speaker are fussy about power drawn in the same circuit - they are only inches away from the sides of a large flat screen TV, and its operating very much disturbs the SQ; in fact, switching on and off the screen causes the speakers to mute for a number of seconds, even though there is no connection! Plus, dressing of cables is vital; not paying attention to this means 'digital harshness' is very obvious - and completely undermines the potential that's there.

 

 

and ...

 

Quote

 

The Blu-ray beast is giving me real problems now ... not new, but hasn't been used that much - the day before it was doing particularly well, then yesterday it didn't like nearly every CD presented to it! Since video discs are still fine, this implies that the diode in the laser used for CD pickup is playing up - I took the lid off yesterday, the insides were spotless; gave the lens a clean just in case, but this made zero difference ... hmmm. Looking around at what people do, one can up the intensity of the diode, but unless done very, very carefully, you can completely kill it ...

 

I hate to change horses in the middle of a trip, but I might have to bring some player around here back to life - while trying a few ideas on making the BDP more reliable.

 

 

and finally ...

 

Quote

 

Right, quick fix, brought in the basic Samsung DVD unit, which the Blu-ray pushed out of the way some years ago - same setup, using optical out. First impressions, sounding good! Which was echoed this morning; this disc,

 

Quote

 

only took a couple of minutes from a dead cold start to show up the sweet, plaintive tones of the solo violin, nice depth to the sound straightaway.

 

An immediate takeaway is that the DVD player is doing a better job than the Blu-ray ... why? Well, a number of reasons are possible: the CD laser in the latter is not doing too well, perhaps on its last legs, so a lot of error correction is going on, impacting the waveform quality of the optical out; or, the Blu-ray also had a HDMI cable linking it to the telly, there was possibly some degradation because that was plugged in, perhaps would be better if it was unplugged; or, the fact that Blu-ray circuitry was in the picture altered things; or, the power supply in the DVD component has less impact, via the mains circuit, on the power supplies, etc, of the speakers; or, perhaps the implementation of the optical is simply just better on the Samsung ... 🙂.

 

Whatever, this is the best rig capable of delivering highly acceptable SQ within minutes of switching on from overnight shutdown I've come across - for that alone it gets a big tick.

 

 

Edited August 17, 20232 yr by fas42

5 minutes ago, tripitaka said:

Full marks for confidence with your choice of thread title ('Search for truth' etc). 

Others might even have considered an entry under 'Humble rigs' for a $500 hifi system like this one🙂

 

 

I've heard too many $500,000 rigs sounding like complete sh!te to be the slightest bit worried about its "humbleness" ...

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

 

I've heard too many $500,000 rigs sounding like complete sh!te

Oh aye!

 

How many $500K systems have you actually auditioned?

3 minutes ago, fas42 said:

the slightest bit worried about its "humbleness"

In this particular instance humbleness would be a classic euphemism and your attendant implication that you have anything even in the same galaxy as a  $5K system  ( Let alone $500K ) is frankly lacking in credibility on any level.

 

26 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Zero tweaking, just thrown on the floor, no obvious defects ... a good starting point ...

 

Sure ,why not? It jibes with the rest of your reasoning.

 

I guess I could just throw my speakers on the floor. Why didn't I think of that?🤦‍♂️

Possibly the most pointless thread I’ve wasted 2 mins on.

2 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Possibly the most pointless thread I’ve wasted 2 mins on.

Get with the Kool Kids mate.  Fly and be free!

 

Throw your speakers on the floor and buy an Aldi Blu Ray

SQ is in the ears of the beholder.

My system is to some very expensive and yet to others quite cheap.

I like it, as does my wife, most of it is DIY kit gear and yes, It does sound good.

 

Edited August 17, 20232 yr by Batty

27 minutes ago, rantan said:

Oh aye!

 

How many $500K systems have you actually auditioned?

 

More than enough to make the point ... I was a member of an audio club for a few years, and so heard what the general standard, in home, of a few were ... a 'favourite' 🙃 was a vinyl rig, using a Benz cartridge - the treble was ripping off layers of skin, of my eardrums ...

 

27 minutes ago, rantan said:

In this particular instance humbleness would be a classic euphemism and your attendant implication that you have anything even in the same galaxy as a  $5K system  ( Let alone $500K ) is frankly lacking in credibility on any level.

 

Previous rig used a NAD integrated and CD player duo, so in the $5K category - "2nd hand" ... and the SQ was a mess, when I first got it. Had to do major surgery to make it bearable - cheap and nasty parts used everywhere, was got rid of by the previous owner because it was diabolically unreliable; spent half its life in the repair shop. A friend up to road uses Naim, and has had so many issues ... the Edifiers are a breath of fresh air, in comparison.

 

So, "street cred" means mighty little to me ...

 

27 minutes ago, rantan said:

I guess I could just throw my speakers on the floor. Why didn't I think of that?🤦‍♂️

 

I was referring to the use in the video, right?

Well you've gone to all the trouble of starting a thread to showcase your system so you may as well give us a pic of it, as currently set up.

It is customary

2 hours ago, tripitaka said:

Well you've gone to all the trouble of starting a thread to showcase your system so you may as well give us a pic of it, as currently set up.

It is customary

 

There ya go ... carefully selected from my vast collection of 1 photo(s) of this machine,

 

 

Which says what? That,

 

1:  I have zero interest in taking pics ...

2:  Gear just gets plunked down where it's convenient - it has to fend for itself; tidiness is the last thing on the agenda

3:  Most should be able to pick the age of this shot, from what's on the screen

4:  So, what's with the papers?!!  ... That, folks, is mass loading - started using that with B&W bookshelves 3 decades ago - because it works. One day, will turn this into something more intelligent ... 😜

 

Points for working out the model of speakers they're sitting on; the latter formed part of rigs a few iteration ago.

 

The DVD player is just visible, bottom shelf on right; the 'dud' Blu-ray is bottom, under the Talking Head. All the key electronics is in the back of the right speaker, off photo.

Mass-loading does intuitively make some sense to me for bookshelves at least (especially if the cabinet isnt especially well braced), though I've never tried it, so good to hear feedback on that👍

 

My wife would execute me on the spot if I piled up newspapers in our lounge, but that's unrelated.

It may well be the right time to hit the sanity saving ignore setting.