New System 20K

[billy170468]

Hey guys.

I have a dead system that needs updating. I have roughly 20K to spend.

CD will probably be Musical Fidelity

Amp will probably also be from same stable.

Sub will either be JL Audio or REL.

Speakers will be from Triangle.

System will need to be able to not only play CDś but also either stream music via bluetooth or via USB connection.

 

Your help in this situation would be great

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

If more info required please let me know

 

 

[Irek]

Hi, 

at this price point almost every system sounds good. There is almost brand new Focal Kanta No2 on Gumtree for $8500. For saved money you can get a great amp. 

[captain starlight]

Something doesn’t gel with me here.  Paying 20k for a stereo and then streaming music via Bluetooth.  Is that a case of excessive cost for a limiting standard?  If I were paying 20k for a stereo, then I would want the best form of connection - ie cable.

 

i do realise that OP wants CD and USB connections as well.   But to me, 20k to listen to Bluetooth is the same as a $300k Lamborghini and only driving 60 km/h around town.

 

Maybe I have it all wrong and Bluetooth is great.

[Bunno77]

Sounds like you have it all pretty much sorted. 

Maybe try to find a CD player you like the sound of with digital inputs usb/spdif so a streamer the likes of Auralic, Bluesound , Sotm etc can be used without the need for another separate DAC

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

@billy170468 how did you come at deciding on the amp and speakers?

 

agree with previous posts forget Bluetooth for audio and invest in a decent streamer and dac or CD player with digital inputs

 

if it’s just for 2channel I’d recommend 2 subs over 1 so you have a stereo pair

 

that said if I was spending that sort of coin I would ensure the fronts go deep enough that a sub wouldn’t necessarily be required, integrating subs isn’t the easiest thing for music.

[was_a]

Gidday Andy,

 

You're in a great situation with $20K to spend. I wouldn't rush into any purchase.

 

Being in Bateman's Bay you're in the vicinity of Legend Speakers guru and forum member Rod Crawford.  https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/profile/108824-legend/  I would definitely pop up to Nowra and audition his active model Tikandi BE, and the passive Kama.

 

You could also discuss your listening room - the most important factor in determining sound quality.

 

Why Musical Fidelity? Why Bluetooth? (Bluetooth receivers can be added to anything, so that's easy).

 

Personally, if I was starting from scratch I would buy Australian. Our brands are equal to any international brands, and offer much better value. That includes the Gieseler Fein II DAC. I would get in touch with Clay Gieseler and see what else is in the works. 

 

The Legend Tikandi (with DEQX room correction and remote-controlled preamp) coupled with a Gieseler Fein II would be a formidable system. Just add a good CD transport and you're set, probably under budget with factory-direct pricing. An ethernet connection for high-quality streaming would then also be possible. 

 

In my opinion, this would give you vastly better sound quality than a CD player with digital inputs, not to mention the speaker combo you're considering.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by was_a

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

@SGR Audio  would be another I’d look at if starting over, Australian made active speakers that take away the need for matching amps to speakers which is half the battle done!

[n0bleINtP]

Don't skimp on amplification.  Too many of my friends have +$10k speakers connected to a <$2k integrated. Thank you JB HifI  

Maybe they read the power handling number on the back of the speaker?  Bigger Amp often sounds better with everything else equal.

And its just my view/IMHO etc.  Others differ.
In the past I would match the spend on amp and speakers.  A much lesser amount going on sources.

edit: turntable changes things a bit - they need some love as well ...

Edited June 12, 2019 by n0bleINtP

[Snoopy8]

1 hour ago, was_a said:

You could also discuss your listening room - the most important factor in determining sound quality.

Agree. The room and positioning of speakers have a major influence on SQ.

14 hours ago, billy170468 said:

System will need to be able to not only play CDś but also either stream music via bluetooth or via USB connection.

 You can get a good CD player with USB input and feed it with a streamer.    Alternately,  a three box solution with a CD transport and streamer feeding a DAC.  Bluetooth is convenient but there is a drop in sound quality.  There are all-in-one boxes which do CD, sreaming and bluetooth but they tend to be on the lower end.

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

32 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Agree. The room and positioning of speakers have a major influence on SQ.

 You can get a good CD player with USB input and feed it with a streamer.    Alternately,  a three box solution with a CD transport and streamer feeding a DAC.  Bluetooth is convenient but there is a drop in sound quality.  There are all-in-one boxes which do CD, sreaming and bluetooth but they tend to be on the lower end.

Naim seem to be leading the charge at the higher end all in ones too, can use as a preamp into actives also.

 

https://audiosolutions.net.au/product/naim-uniti-star-all-in-one-cd-streaming-amplifier/

Edited June 12, 2019 by Hi-Fi Whipped

[Silent Screamer]

Take it from someone who has spent well in excess of $20k... Pick your choices wisely. $20k might sound like a lot of money, but it doesn't go as far as you think once you start buying quality components. Think, think, and think some more.

[Project718]

3 hours ago, n0bleINtP said:

Don't skimp on amplification.  Too many of my friends have +$10k speakers connected to a <$2k integrated. Thank you JB HifI  

Maybe they read the power handling number on the back of the speaker?  Bigger Amp often sounds better with everything else equal.

And its just my view/IMHO etc.  Others differ.
In the past I would match the spend on amp and speakers.  A much lesser amount going on sources.

edit: turntable changes things a bit - they need some love as well ...

I agree with this. Ive heard some cheap speakers eg. $600 a pair sound unbelievable on decent power. 

And I've heard the opposite too, great speakers sound horrible on crappy amplification. 

Focus on good amplification and build from there 

[Antran]

55 minutes ago, Silent Screamer said:

Take it from someone who has spent well in excess of $20k... Pick your choices wisely. $20k might sound like a lot of money, but it doesn't go as far as you think once you start buying quality components. Think, think, and think some more.

agree...$20k is a lot ,,but won't get you far in the hi end stuff... Eg..a good second hand speaker would cost you between $8k and $10k... I reckon you have a look into P.A system not hi-end

[Silent Screamer]

3 minutes ago, Antran said:

agree...$20k is a lot ,,but won't get you far in the hi end stuff... Eg..a good second hand speaker would cost you between $8k and $10k... I reckon you have a look into P.A system not hi-end

Or you take that $8k-$10k you would spend on those over priced second hand passive speakers and turn that money into active DIY speakers that run circles around them.

I sold my Sonus Faber Cremonas to my brother in law (who was more interested in the way they looked, then sounded) for $7k and put that money (and a lot more) into an active system. Have no regrets.

[Bunno77]

3 hours ago, n0bleINtP said:

Don't skimp on amplification.  Too many of my friends have +$10k speakers connected to a <$2k integrated. Thank you JB HifI  
 

 

26 minutes ago, Project718 said:

I agree with this. Ive heard some cheap speakers eg. $600 a pair sound unbelievable on decent power. 

And I've heard the opposite too, great speakers sound horrible on crappy amplification. 

Focus on good amplification and build from there 

Yep. Many, many, many speakers run at a fraction of their potential. 

 

Doesn't necessarily mean spend more but make sure you get good amplification. 

 

Like above many times I have been blown away by cheap speakers on good electronics. A fantastic speaker sounds crud average amps and many don't have the luxury to swap in and out many components to realise just how much they are missing. 

[Silent Screamer]

1 minute ago, Bunno77 said:

 

Yep. Many, many, many speakers run at a fraction of their potential. 

 

Doesn't necessarily mean spend more but make sure you get good amplification. 

 

Like above many times I have been blown away by cheap speakers on good electronics. A fantastic speaker sounds crud average amps and many don't have the luxury to swap in and out many components to realise just how much they are missing. 

You could probably liken this to the Stig driving a Hyundai, and your 90 year old grand mother driving a Ferrari. Most speaker drivers are better than people give them credit for, and sometimes all you get with some expensive drvers is a bigger bill. A good amp will show your cheap speakers potential, a poor amp won't do justice to the best speakers in the world.

 

Shoot for a middle ground on both.

[billy170468]

This is the quote from LWA for the system he suggests

 

https://imgur.com/a/zojlGoe

 

Can I do better?

[n0bleINtP]

@billy170468  Ok to embed the image?  (will remove if not...)

it all actually looks pretty good - I would spend less on a couple of things - but it is your system  
 

Edited June 12, 2019 by n0bleINtP

[billy170468]

I would spend less on a couple of things - but it is your system  

 

Ok what would you change?

[n0bleINtP]

I would have a different option on the CD - it is nearly 1/4 of the budget. So for me, a cheaper player (as transport) - into an better/cheaper/external DAC. Then that DAC into the Amp.

But that would be a fiddly thing, with different brands, cosmetics, remotes and what have you. Fine for me. But others want neat.

Your quoted setup is neater, integrates with the other MF in the system. Could be a value for you.
I am just unsure of the performance of that CD/digital source for its price. It is an older unit? Assume it streams network: spotify / tidal ?

For me I would spend less on the speaker cabling - but that is me. And not a debate worth starting here. (ie cables)

Seriously it all looks really good
Muscle in that Amp is noted in many reviews. Also found a review that indicates that it really opens up if you give it a good digital source.

don't change your plans on this - just my quick 2c  
good luck with it all 

Edited June 12, 2019 by n0bleINtP

[n0bleINtP]

and ... maybe I underestimated the CD player

it got a DAC upgrade a couple of years ago?
has a tube stage ?

might be more special than I realize ... others would have better info

[billy170468]

Hey all,

 

Just letting you know that this quote/purchase is NOT set in stone.

 

And, I am not only going to LWA.. I have 2 other shops I am going to.

 

Keep your suggestions coming.

 

But I am off to bed

 

Cheers

 

 

Andy

Edited June 12, 2019 by billy170468

[Kaynin]

Just my 2 cents, and without having read any replies -

 

I wouldn’t buy a stubbie for 2 channel set-up, I’d look for floor standers that dig deep.  Also, cables are important but at $2,200???  Gee whizz, I’d drop the subbie cable, re-assess the cables to speaker and I/c only for $1000 total spend and re-divert the extra $4000 purely to upgrading the speakers.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Kaynin

[Krispy Audio]

I would second the suggestion of considering putting the sub money back into the speakers or elsewhere. Those speakers go down to the 35Hz (probably lower in-room response) which is pretty decent to be honest. 

 

Do do you need a rack for this?

[was_a]

So you'd have two DACs! The M6s CD player has one, and the M6Si amp has another!

 

Plus one beefy subwoofer by JL Audio that needs to be integrated with a pair of Triangle floorstanders. This is fine for home-theatre but not for hi-fi.

 

For $20K this is not great value. It's just a retail package tailored to the budget you provided, comprising brands that are stocked by that shop and some fancy wires thrown in for good measure! Also keep in mind that most listening rooms have an uneven frequency response, so buying expensive speakers without addressing this is a huge waste.

 

I'd suggest that you read through some of the advice received on this thread, and do more research and some auditioning before you spend your dough (which may be burning a hole in your pocket? We've all been there!). There are far better options and you should make yourself aware of these. 

 

NB: The British hi-fi press is the most influential in the world, and they hype up Musical Fidelity, Cyrus, Naim, Linn, KEF, Roksan etc like there's no tomorrow! Internet reviews and forum opinions follow suit. Here, on the other side of the world, we pay through the nose for these brands in the mistaken belief they are superior to all else.

 

Similarly, French-made Triangle are also well-marketed. But they're not any better than Australian speakers! 

 

Legend

Orpheus

Osborn

Lenehan

VAF

 

Personally, like I said before, the Legend Tikandi active speakers (including DEQX room correction / remote-controlled preamp) with a Gieseler Fein II DAC and a CD transport would be my choice. This would work in any half-decent listening environment, and allow streaming from ethernet, bluetooth etc as well.

 

If you're reticent about the CD transport-DAC route, you could buy the M6s CD player instead and utilise its digital inputs. I wouldn't myself, having listening to the M6s and similar designs at this price-point.

 

Ultimately it's your call. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by was_a