1 hour ago, digoxin said:

Having said that in my smallish room (4x5m) the ARC Ref150 does a great job. Now that it is getting warmer I am using class D March 422 which I am sure goes all the way down to 2 ohm and has plenty of current. 

 

I am under strict instructions by my audiologist to not exceed 85db regularly(30-40db beyond 2K hearing impairment) so I think either amps are great.

 

Be interested to try out what you have done at some stage biamping with the class d handling the lows and tubes for the highs. Just need to figure out the voltage gains for each amp and hope they match.

The Ref150 I read has a gain of 24dB (balanced input) whilst the 422 is probably more the common gain setting of 26.5 which my p451s have, so it's likely a bit hot for the ARC by default.

2 hours ago, digoxin said:

My SF Amati Futura would also be a candidate for this HOF.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sonus-faber-amati-futura-loudspeaker

 

 Speaker is a fairly difficult load for the partnering amplifier to drive, with a magnitude dropping to 3 ohms and below in the lower midrange, and a combination of 4.6 ohms and –43° electrical phase angle at 51Hz. There is also a dip to 3.75 ohms at 5kHz, though the phase angle is close to 0° at this frequency.

 

Having said that in my smallish room (4x5m) the ARC Ref150 does a great job. Now that it is getting warmer I am using class D March 422 which I am sure goes all the way down to 2 ohm and has plenty of current. 

 

I am under strict instructions by my audiologist to not exceed 85db regularly(30-40db beyond 2K hearing impairment) so I think either amps are great.

 

Be interested to try out what you have done at some stage biamping with the class d handling the lows and tubes for the highs. Just need to figure out the voltage gains for each amp and hope they match.

 

My main challenge is the room modes and constraints there. Getting room treatment installed next week so hopefully I hear some improvement . 

 

 

 

Treatment will make a massive difference I suspect

17 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

The Ref150 I read has a gain of 24dB (balanced input) whilst the 422 is probably more the common gain setting of 26.5 which my p451s have, so it's likely a bit hot for the ARC by default.

Thanks.You are right.  24dB is the official spec.

 

I wrote to ARC and their reply was

 

Summary: The only piece of data on that available is that the amplifier has 24db of gain into 8 ohms when using balanced inputs. We do not have the data available for the other taps.

Thank you,

Greg Christensen
Audio Research Customer Service

 

However the Stereophile article also gives voltage gains for the 4 and 16 ohm tap which measures  21.3 and 26.5 respectively.

https://www.sarte-audio.com/sites/default/files/reviews/ref150-stereophile1_july_2012.pdf

 

The March amp can be set to 20.5 or 26.5dB

 

https://www.marchaudio.com/product/p422-stereo-power-amplifier/?v=6cc98ba2045f

 

Not sure where the 16ohm tap would work well with the speaker though. 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, digoxin said:

Thanks.You are right.  24dB is the official spec.

 

I wrote to ARC and their reply was

 

Summary: The only piece of data on that available is that the amplifier has 24db of gain into 8 ohms when using balanced inputs. We do not have the data available for the other taps.

Thank you,

Greg Christensen
Audio Research Customer Service

 

However the Stereophile article also gives voltage gains for the 4 and 16 ohm tap which measures  21.3 and 26.5 respectively.

https://www.sarte-audio.com/sites/default/files/reviews/ref150-stereophile1_july_2012.pdf

 

The March amp can be set to 20.5 or 26.5dB

 

https://www.marchaudio.com/product/p422-stereo-power-amplifier/?v=6cc98ba2045f

 

Not sure where the 16ohm tap would work well with the speaker though.

You can safely run off the lower impedance tap at a compromise to power output, especially since you don't play very loud; it may even give you a flatter response with your speakers. However, the March is configured at the manufacturing stage, and last I recall there was no adjusting afterwards.

What a gorgeous system. I have loved MBL's since I heard a couple of systems in Singapore and Malaysia many years ago. I was aware that Audio Connection sold them (I indeed saw an MBL in Audio Connection but did not get a chance to hear it). Where did you get yours from? 

9 minutes ago, Amfibius said:

What a gorgeous system. I have loved MBL's since I heard a couple of systems in Singapore and Malaysia many years ago. I was aware that Audio Connection sold them (I indeed saw an MBL in Audio Connection but did not get a chance to hear it). Where did you get yours from? 

Thanks. Bought them second hand locally.

On 04/07/2022 at 1:41 PM, Ittaku said:

Hi Desmond.

 

You may be disappointed to hear that I find everything from a raspberry pi to the most expensive Taiko server feeding my DAC sounded identical to me. Or maybe, you'll find the opposite reassurance as I did. I use a roon core on a linux Ubuntu LTS release. There are a lot of changes I don't hear that other people seem to hear so maybe I'm the wrong person to ask - this has always been the case even before I developed a hearing problem.

Hello Con,

Two weeks ago I converted the Roon Core OS on Linux Ubuntu installed on my  NUC11PAHi5 to Roon ROCK.  The NUC11 is now compatible for Roon ROCK OS installation.

I must say that i am really surprised that Roon ROCK sounds much better than Roon Core - streaming from Qobuz.

Low bass is deeper; imaging/vocals is more solid and dense; sound is more dynamic. Everything seems to sound louder and more solid at the same preamp volume level. Could this apparent improvement in “sound quality” be due to a higher USB digital output from the ROCK software, thus making the sound louder and more dynamic? I have experienced that using the Roon server software with Squeezebox player software on a dedicated Streamer sounds less loud compared to using Roon server and player softwares.

Try to convert the Roon Core OS on your NUC11 to Roon ROCK and judge for yourself. You may be presently surprised.

 

Edited December 9, 20223 yr by Easy Glider

No, there is no such thing as a "higher output" from USB, though there may be less CPU consumers on your PC leading to less noise to transmit along the USB or ground plane. I actually run USB to fibre optic conversion so there is nothing to gain here.

I hope we aren't going to have "which operating system sounds best" threads develop  on SNA.  I run a low-latency Ubuntu kernel on my desktop, just because that suits recording software I occasionally use, but my PC isn't my main music player either.   I run different linux versions on everything, from rPis, laptops, and desktops and have listened to music using them.  Never had any reason to suspect that playing back via USB to a DAC, sounds any different, no matter which computer I am using.

4 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

No, there is no such thing as a "higher output" from USB, though there may be less CPU consumers on your PC leading to less noise to transmit along the USB or ground plane. I actually run USB to fibre optic conversion so there is nothing to gain here.

I also run the Pro USB to fibre optic to my MSB Reference DAC's Pro ISL input. If the USB output can't be higher for Roon ROCK, then maybe ROCK is indeed better because it is a dedicated OS for ROCK alone on the NUC.

No harm trying and nothing to lose. 

Just now, Easy Glider said:

I also run the Pro USB to fibre optic to my MSB Reference DAC's Pro ISL input. If the USB output can't be higher for Roon ROCK, then maybe ROCK is indeed better because it is a dedicated OS for ROCK alone on the NUC.

No harm trying and nothing to lose. 

Yeah.. nah. I hate to say it, but there really isn't a reason it should sound different then. Bear in mind I'm partially deaf and 99% of the changes people talk about on this forum are inaudible to me, and without a meaningful mechanism for it sounding better, it's not something I'm really interested in exploring.

9 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

I hope we aren't going to have "which operating system sounds best" threads develop  on SNA.  I run a low-latency Ubuntu kernel on my desktop, just because that suits recording software I occasionally use, but my PC isn't my main music player either.   I run different linux versions on everything, from rPis, laptops, and desktops and have listened to music using them.  Never had any reason to suspect that playing back via USB to a DAC, sounds any different, no matter which computer I am using.

 

Different streamers/servers in the market today do sound quite different due to how the Roon Server and Player softwares are implemented in their machines. This sound difference is because of using different operating systems or the technology difference in their machines? Using Squeezebox player software (instead of the Roon Player, RAAT) with Roon server software will also sound different - this sound difference is documented by many audiophiles in many Forums. So different OS or player softwares for Roon streaming may be different sounding, for better or for worst. 

1 minute ago, Easy Glider said:

 

Different streamers/servers in the market today do sound quite different due to how the Roon Server and Player softwares are implemented in their machines. This sound difference is because of using different operating systems or the technology difference in their machines? Using Squeezebox player software (instead of the Roon Player, RAAT) with Roon server software will also sound different - this sound difference is documented by many audiophiles in many Forums. So different OS or player softwares for Roon streaming may be different sounding, for better or for worst. 

Not to me they don't, so... thanks for the suggestion, but no.

Lack of posts for a while on this thread, but I hope you are still enjoying the music @Ittaku 

 

Anyway, no system upgrades to report is generally a good sign👍

8 minutes ago, tripitaka said:

Lack of posts for a while on this thread, but I hope you are still enjoying the music @Ittaku 

 

Anyway, no system upgrades to report is generally a good sign👍

Still listen for hours a day, and am very happy with the current steady state. I simply can't find anything to change that will be a universal improvement.

Thanks for posting the binaural video recording, it gives at least somewhat of an impression of the soundstage. A wonderfully composed listening situation, a calming room when no music is playing is so important.

You posted in an earlier post that you play at 110db....is that possible because the distance to the speakers protects ears? (I've found that in my small room and at 2.5m distance from speakers mids and highs become borderline painful around 90d - probably a bit of a beginner's question.)

On 12/03/2023 at 6:47 PM, Steff said:

Thanks for posting the binaural video recording, it gives at least somewhat of an impression of the soundstage. A wonderfully composed listening situation, a calming room when no music is playing is so important.

You posted in an earlier post that you play at 110db....is that possible because the distance to the speakers protects ears? (I've found that in my small room and at 2.5m distance from speakers mids and highs become borderline painful around 90d - probably a bit of a beginner's question.)

 

You really need to get yourself invited to Con's next gtg, Steff.  

 

On 12/03/2023 at 6:47 PM, Steff said:

Thanks for posting the binaural video recording, it gives at least somewhat of an impression of the soundstage. A wonderfully composed listening situation, a calming room when no music is playing is so important.

You posted in an earlier post that you play at 110db....is that possible because the distance to the speakers protects ears? (I've found that in my small room and at 2.5m distance from speakers mids and highs become borderline painful around 90d - probably a bit of a beginner's question.)

Whoa, I did draft a reply to this but I guess I never pressed submit. I virtually never listen at 110dB; I just want the system to be capable of 110dB to recreate symphonic scale which only rarely gets that loud. Most of the time I listen between 60 and 70, and only crank it up for get togethers or when something distracts me enough from work that I have to listen to the finale/crescendo/good part or whatever.

Certainly Handel's Bourrée from the Water Music suite would be a candidate for loud cranking when the ensemble joins all back in at around 01:30 (the Tafelmusik version is the only one I would credit with sufficient dynamism).

Thanks for having us over today, Con. 

 

I have heard two other MBL systems, including a 101 Extreme. While I DO love MBL, I always thought that the 101's were the sweet spot in the MBL range, because the 101 Extremes are a bit too much. It was early in that owner's MBL journey, and the room had not been treated yet. It went very loud very cleanly, but there was a bit too much echo for that system to be enjoyable at the time (it is probably much better now). I have only had the chance to hear one other MBL 101 system, and that was powered by a few hundred thousand $$ worth of massive MBL amplifiers. This time it was played at a more realistic volume in a well treated room. It really made an impression. MBL sound is so relaxing, and I wonder whether it is because you are freed from having to sit in one position to enjoy music. So I have been impatiently looking forward to today and I was not disappointed. 

 

This is THE best listening room I have ever seen! And I have seen some pretty interesting listening rooms. Very well treated, no flutter echo, nothing. Just the sound of a bunch of guys eating cheese and talking when they should be listening 🤫 and the music. MBL's disappear into the room. From the listening position, there are no speakers. Just an enormous soundstage that seems bigger than the room. The tonality, precision, detail, were outstanding. And so it should be, they have been tuned to a target curve which I will very shortly be copying. As you would expect with omnis, the sound was enjoyable anywhere in the room, but it gets even better in the hot seat. 

 

It was also interesting to meet a fellow DSP user who is actually knowledgeable about what he is doing. Couldn't say the same about myself when I first started going down the DSP path. 

 

I have wanted an MBL since I heard my first one, but I have always been put off by the amount of money required. I feel very lucky to have heard this system, surely one of the best in Australia. There are cheaper omnis around, ones that I can actually afford. Now I am starting to wonder what they sound like. 

8 hours ago, Keith_W said:

Just the sound of a bunch of guys eating cheese and talking when they should be listening 🤫 

LOL. Standard get together stuff 😁 

BTW, have you seen this? 

 

 

 

No wonder they are so expensive! 

Pleasant surprise: When I bought my Ref 6SE preamp, I was the recipient of the cheaper plasticky remote control. I saw Audio Research post about their lovely new aluminium remote control and was envious. Well it turns out they've sent out free replacements to anyone who purchased theirs with the plastic remote control.

Edited April 10, 20232 yr by Ittaku

Music keeps soothing the soul.

2 hours ago, Ittaku said:

Music keeps soothing the soul.

Whenever possible, I always have music on whether be at home, on the road or even at a hotel while travelling with portable speakers. Right now, I have background music playing from my phone to blutooth speakers in the hotel room. Can't live without a music. I tell my wife that I am addicted to the music. 😅