Cambridge Audio 'Edge' hi-end components.

[Guest Muon N']

Companies move assembly and or production OS often for one large reason, and that is to survive in the market place.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Muon N'

[Tweaky]

I'm pretty sure the worry about reliability of Cambridge gear is twofold.

Firstly that it is now made in China, and secondly that pretty much the only place you can buy Cambridge Audio equipment is from Richter Sounds in the UK, which sort of makes it like a 'Store Brand' equivalent to something  like a Bing Lee or JB HiFi is Australia.

 

I suppose there is a bit of buyers snobbery going on regarding the retailer in the UK, but at least you can get it at a lot of places.

 

I've read posts at other forums about questionable reliability past warranty period, from what I've read it's usually displays or source switching controls on the Pre Amps, or Pre Amp sections of integrated amps that have been the main culprits.

 

TBH, after reading a spate of them, it did deter me from considering Cambridge gear.

 

If the situation has changed any over the last 18 months I don't know, I sort of doubt it to be honest.

 

I'm pretty sure the problems of getting a reliable QC of European based HiFi that is made in China is the reason that a lot have stopped doing so, I know Primare stopped for that reason.

[crisis]

1 hour ago, Tweaky said:

I'm pretty sure the problems of getting a reliable QC of European based HiFi that is made in China is the reason that a lot have stopped doing so, I know Primare stopped for that reason.

So Primare do not manufacture the new range in China?

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, Tweaky said:

 

I'm pretty sure the worry about reliability of Cambridge gear is twofold.

Firstly that it is now made in China,

 

Cambridge gear has been made in China fir a long while. Not just now. Whet has irked is a flag being placed on it when has little to do with where made.

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, Tweaky said:

 

I'm pretty sure the problems of getting a reliable QC of European based HiFi that is made in China is the reason that a lot have stopped doing so, I know Primare stopped for that reason.

QC and more importantly QA is a major problem in China.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

Not just the flag, but the "since 1968" is to my mind just a touch dubious... this is effectively the third version of the company. The original mid range pretty good audio company, the 1980-94 "innovative" era with Stan Curtis from the original version doing some great work, then the post 1994 largely budget audio company under Audio Partnerships - which to my mind is effectively a different company, just with the same name, even though they have still produced some excellent gear.

 

The phrase there is "designed and engineered in the UK". Yes, it's made in China. It's likely that the most reliable product (across everything, not just audio) that you've bought this century is either made in China, or built with a lot of material and components made in China. Probably the least reliable one as well.

 

Arcam (another UK company from Cambridge) is currently getting some of its products made in the US for less than they could make the equivalent in China, or so I read. Now they are part of Samsung. What does that mean for Arcam quality overall? Has it got better or worse for those changes?

 

I believe there is much more to quality than the country the factory is in. For what it's worth, for reliability the worst product I've owned was a Sansui made in Japan amp (sounded OK, though) and the best for longevity my Consonance CD player.

[stevoz]

20 hours ago, Cafad said:

OK, I seem to have started something here.  All I said was that I was disappointed that the new Edge gear was made in China.  I was, and remain, disappointed that a company that trades on its "British Sound" and its "British History" and that also uses a union jack as part of its company symbol, is having its special anniversary gear made in China.

 

There was a furor earlier this year when Harley Davidson started looking at moving manufacturing out of the US.  A company that would have you believe it bleeds red, white and blue moving production to somewhere else.  That sounded very disappointing to more people than just me.  In my opinion this is a similar situation.

 

Nothing to do with the quality of manufacturing, perceived or otherwise.  

 

I felt similarly when Accusound moved speaker production offshore, although in that case it came with a corresponding reduction in parts and sound quality.  The Theta range was not a worthy successor to the Delta range, not at all.

 

This global manufacturing marketplace has its down side.

 

I do get your point but, Accusound example aside, auto and audio are a bit different I think. I am sure you are like me and don't look at the new Commodore as a 'real' Commodore anymore but in the case of an audio product, Cambridge Audio is 'Great British Sound' because it is researched, designed and tested in Britain.

 

Where it's made actually makes no difference....do you believe a CA unit made in China, QC'd by Cambridge Audio and using exactly the same components as one made in Britain would sound any different to the British built unit? It sort of can't....

 

Being designed and R & D'd in Britain is what gives it 'Great British Sound' and IMO, they aren't out of line to still claim it.....

[betty boop]

Great post egg cup

 

ps the Aussie commodore is greatly impacted by local design. Infact Holden locally is basically a design house a global one.

 

even back in the day working at one of the majors we could look at one to one drawings steal a door off one car, mirror off another and so on and so on.

 

we have world cars these days. It’s why I laugh at people’s reliability claims based on country. Most ridiculous thing ever heard !

 

its the core design, it’s the components, materials, it’s how put together how tested qc’d all matters. If talking automobiles. We have two Honda civics in the family one made in Japan last before the flood and the one made in Thailand after the flood. Same car ? Yeah sorta.. you can pick them apart

 

all the car makers are in China... why do you think we get none of their cars made in China ....

 

and theres more, an Aussie speaker company will only get cabinets made there, the electronics and final fit off they will do here.

 

the worlds largest dairy company will not have any dealings with Chinese companies or have any sort of manufacture there. They also ban Chinese stainless steel from any processing vessels ... many companies have had to make hard decisions like this to protect themselves.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

22 minutes ago, stevoz said:

Great British Sound

What the hell is the Great British Sound in amplification?

 

One of my last experiences of British amps (I'm British, as some of you will have picked up) was a demo of Quad, Arcam and Naim integrateds a few years ago. They sounded different from each other, more different than you might expect. There is a "British school" of thin walled BBC influenced speakers that do have similarities, but there's no such thing as a British "amplifier sound" and hasn't been for some time. Going back to before I got involved in hifi, there was a time when British companies were world leading in amplification, but that passed.

 

So what was my conclusion? I bought a Moon i-1. And as it happens, that choice was reflected in independent measurements that were mostly published later (quick break for a smug grin, then continues).

 

32 minutes ago, stevoz said:

Where it's made actually makes no difference....do you believe a CA unit made in China, QC'd by Cambridge Audio and using exactly the same components as one made in Britain would sound any different to the British built unit? It sort of can't....

As I understand it, where similar models have been moved in terms of production from the UK to China, the sound hasn't changed. In the case of Quad, anecdotally reliability went down for Chinese assembled products, while for other parts of IAG (Wharfedale being the main example) reliability went up. It would be interesting to see actual figures though.

 

There's more to it than just the country. IAG own their own plant, while other companies have products assembled by Chinese partners and that's where quality reportedly becomes more variable.

 

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

4 hours ago, Muon N' said:

Companies move assembly and or production OS often for one large reason, and that is to survive in the market place.

... increased profit.

 

Few companies were making losses when they moved, overall.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Eggcup The Daft

[Guest Muon N']

28 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

... increased profit.

 

Few companies were making losses when they moved, overall.

I'm not privy to the inner workings (behind the scenes and accounts) of any of the companies you might be thinking of, so I'll not make assumptions about things I know nothing of.

 

I posted what is likely as far as market places are concerned.

 

If you are privy to those things about those companies, that's good for you.

[blakey72]

If you listen to this guy talk about the streamer at 2.15-2.25 he say's 'assembled in the U.K'. What, does that mean? Everything's made in U.K on this unit? What about the other components? Or maybe he's just talking about the volume control?

 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by blakey72

[blakey72]

Yeah maybe that's it. Well going for a listen tomorrow

 

Hmmm the Edge W doesn't appear to be able to be bridged. Wonder why they had two units under the pre....

Edited December 4, 2018 by blakey72

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

23 hours ago, Muon N' said:

I'm not privy to the inner workings (behind the scenes and accounts) of any of the companies you might be thinking of, so I'll not make assumptions about things I know nothing of.

 

I posted what is likely as far as market places are concerned.

 

If you are privy to those things about those companies, that's good for you.

The companies I am referring to are limited companies that published or registered their accounts.

 

It's all on the record. Just take any of the large companies that moved production to China, and check their published or registered accounts for the previous year. Few made a loss in the years before they first had products produced in China. Generally for the big companies you'll find their results in the news in the "reporting season".

 

Apart from anything else, at the time they required both money to invest, and a Chinese industry partner or supplier (I believe that the local partner rule was relaxed recently).

 

On the other hand, you are going to "not make assumptions" but at the same time you posted "what is likely". Interesting juxtaposition.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

On 03/12/2018 at 10:42 PM, Muon N' said:

I'm not privy to the inner workings (behind the scenes and accounts) of any of the companies you might be thinking of, so I'll not make assumptions about things I know nothing of.

 

I posted what is likely as far as market places are concerned.

 

If you are privy to those things about those companies, that's good for you.

The companies I am referring to are limited companies that published or registered their accounts.

 

It's all on the record. Just take any of the large companies that moved production to China, and check their published or registered accounts for the previous year. Few made a loss in the years before they first had products produced in China. Generally for the big companies you'll find their results in the news in the "reporting season".

 

Apart from anything else, at the time they required both money to invest, and a Chinese industry partner or supplier (I believe that the local partner rule was relaxed recently).

 

On the other hand, you are going to "not make assumptions" but at the same time you posted "what is likely". Interesting juxtaposition.

[betty boop]

4 hours ago, blakey72 said:

If you listen to this guy talk about the streamer at 2.15-2.25 he say's 'assembled in the U.K'. What, does that mean? Everything's made in U.K on this unit? What about the other components? Or maybe he's just talking about the volume control?

not one brittish flag to be seen....

 

some lovely looking gear. and hats off to cambridge it looks beautifully engineered... inside and out..

 

its not particularly cheap gear... but looks to get you moneys worth

 

that combined knob is a ton of engineering even on its own... scary really.... while he talked of simplicity of look and use ... it does introduce a ton of complexity in design   ups and downs with every approach...

 

I too am curious why the two power amps ... are they able to be used as mono blocks ? or are they bi-amping as you can wiht B&Ws... some confidence to demo with 800 series B&Ws as they could be quite revealing... especially of any edginess :D of anything upstream ! 

[blakey72]

3 minutes ago, betty boop said:

not one brattish flag to be seen....

 

some lovely looking gear. and hats off to cambridge it looks beautifully engineered... inside and out..

 

its not particularly cheap gear... but looks to get you moneys worth

 

that combined knob is a ton of engineering even on its own... scary really.... while he talked of simplicity of look and use ... it does introduce a ton of complexity in design   ups and downs with every approach...

 

I too am curious why the two power amps ... are they able to be used as mono blocks ? or are they bi-amping as you can wiht B&Ws... some confidence to demo with 800 series B&Ws as they could be quite revealing... especially of any edginess :D of anything upstream ! 

They can't be used as mono blocks so somehow bi-amping. How do you get 2 channels per power amp out of one pre out?

Edited December 4, 2018 by blakey72

[betty boop]

6 minutes ago, blakey72 said:

They can't be used as mono blocks so somehow bi-amping. How do you get 2 channels per power amp out of one pre out?

can you daisy chain the powers ... with most uk amps eg cyrus for mf this was always possible. 

 

so you just go pre out to one power. pre out to next. then use either vertical or horizontal bi amping. 

 

http://av2day.com/2014/05/bi-amping-vertical-vs-horizontal/

 

yes the power amp has daisy chain out...

 

[Guest Muon N']

4 hours ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

The companies I am referring to are limited companies that published or registered their accounts.

 

It's all on the record. Just take any of the large companies that moved production to China, and check their published or registered accounts for the previous year. Few made a loss in the years before they first had products produced in China. Generally for the big companies you'll find their results in the news in the "reporting season".

 

Apart from anything else, at the time they required both money to invest, and a Chinese industry partner or supplier (I believe that the local partner rule was relaxed recently).

 

On the other hand, you are going to "not make assumptions" but at the same time you posted "what is likely". Interesting juxtaposition.

And of course you knew everything behind the scenes, and are aware of projected future sales in the market given every aspect that is not in those records.

 

It appears that you are attempting to apply a simplistic and static view of business, where a business is more complex and dynamic.

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Muon N'
Clarity

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

13 hours ago, Muon N' said:

And of course you knew everything behind the scenes, and are aware of projected future sales in the market given every aspect that is not in those records.

 

It appears that you are attempting to apply a simplistic and static view of business, where a business is more complex and dynamic.

 

You can say that, but I'm not basing my view, cynical as it may be, on "likely", but on actual data available to me.

 

[Bunno77]

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/cambridge-audio-edge-nq

Sounds a little disappointing. Just what you'd expect for the money.

[Guest Muon N']

5 hours ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

You can say that, but I'm not basing my view, cynical as it may be, on "likely", but on actual data available to me.

 

I think your data set is far too little, but lets leave it at that as we are not going to agree :)

[blakey72]

19 hours ago, betty boop said:

can you daisy chain the powers ... with most uk amps eg cyrus for mf this was always possible. 

 

so you just go pre out to one power. pre out to next. then use either vertical or horizontal bi amping. 

 

http://av2day.com/2014/05/bi-amping-vertical-vs-horizontal/

 

yes the power amp has daisy chain out...

 

Thanks for letting me know that mate. I hadn't realized that could be done  

[blakey72]

And some bad news. I couldn't get in to listen to the Edge integrated. Had to rush home for family crisis  I've got to go back down Monday so I'm going to try then.

[michaelw]

stereophile just reviewed the integrated amp and liked it, saying it was worth the $5k us ask.