Melbourne In't Hi Fi show

[sir sanders zingmore]

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?24249-Melbourne-s-Int-l-Hi-Fi-show

[metal beat]

Yes it seems Big Dog, and I quote seasoned Audiophile, music lover and tech guru is spreading his positivity and expertise to the outer reaches of the world. 

 

  One would think in such a pasting he would get all the names correct.   I would love to hear the WAF room 

 

  

Edited November 6, 2017 by metal beat

[Wimbo]

2 hours ago, Elnido said:

Thx for the review.I was intending to fly down from Sydney for the show but left my booking run too late and the airfares became silly.

Appears I didn't miss much.I remember attending a hifi show at The Hilton Hotel near Sydney airport many decades ago.Back then 

I was very impressed by Duntech Black Princes(too bad they were the size of a wardrobe).

I remember Jamo putting on a demo in a very large room.Because of that rooms acoustics all bass was missing in action.

The exhibitors are stuck with the room and its acoustic problems.

Thats when Ceto had his Golmund Reference running into Audio Research Pre/powers and as well as the Mark Levinson Monos driving the Infinity Betas. No grunt in the mains and lights on everywhere. Didnt sound very good unfortunately.

[allthumbs]

If somebody can't hear past a cable, how can someone hear past a room?

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes maties, agreed with some of the points/feedback. Now more than ever, I have realized the ROOM plays a huge factor! At the tender age of 44, I’m still learning!

 

I may have missed a few things or incorrectly stated something, that’s because for those of you who didn’t notice the timing of my post- past 4am this morning, and I’m still sleepy… lucky I got the day off. So sorry if I have missed or stated something to the world incorrectly.

I am also very transparent, I don’t sugar coat anything anymore, therefore I will tell like it is!

 

I have been a member on WBF for many years, and I am no expert at all. It’s just that when I did have the CJ dealership along with other brands such as, ARC, VTL & Manley, Maggies, Infinity & Paradigm to name a few, back in my home country, people were losing interest in high end audio. They would rather spend that kind of money on fancy sports cars… sadly we had to shut down, plus family and all migrated to Aussie land for a better life! Best country I have lived in to date! When I hopped onto WBF, and when I had the Quads, I was extremely disappointed to learn of its flaws. Went through disaster after disaster. Luckily there was a very nice chap named Kostas, who helped me to venture back into the world of Martin Logan’s, and so I embarked on the Ethos.

 

I was looking really forward to this year’s Melbourne Hi Fi show because I wanted to see if there was a transducer that could outclass the Ethos for that kind of spend, sadly there wasn’t a single thing available. Not even the Halcro Stats. I would have loved to see Connie demo his Audio Analysis ribbons in that large lounge area, rather than Halcro. I guess those big boys spent quite a bit to acquire that space.

 

BTW, someone commented about the sweet spot on stats- so what? When I “sit down and listen to music” I don’t really start doing back flips, somersaults and roll over the floor, I rather listen and relax into the music, allowing the natural soundstage to flow, and it is superb! So really what’s the big deal about this sweet spot? For those with speakers that have a sweet spot, good! It won’t allow you to shake your head violently… and listen at the same time.

 

On a more positive note- there were some systems that were sounding alright. Yes, the Huglich setup was pretty good, nothing too over-bearing there as long as you were standing way back and listening, not near field. The other fairly large room next to the LP’s on sale, where there were JBL’s and NAD systems and a range of others, this was very nice and clean. No boomey stuff or muffled sound, very clear and pleasant to listen to. I think any combination from here, would get you a nice setup for average spend without going homeless.

 

On another comment / question about whether Martin Logan hybrids have solved the bass driver to panel integration- yes definitely! Go and listen to the new ML hybrid systems at Class A Audio (Kevin) will give you a good demo. Or if you really want one demo not to forget, send me a PM and I can arrange one at home for you. At the moment we live in a shoe box therefore this won't be the full potential of the Ethos but you will feel every single minute detail, including fast bass with slam and heft! 

Although I still prefer a dedicated transport/dac combination compared to the streaming device that Kevin uses, his rooms are adequate for good demos. Sometime I feel he has over-damped the rooms though, and there is far too much gear in any one room! Anyway, you will get a good sense of how far these new ML hybrids have been engineered.

 

I also ventured back into pre-power combination, and now have the Conrad Johnson Classic 60SE power amp matched with the PV15 pre (modified). Well, all I can say is that this duo takes the Ethos to another level altogether. The only upgrade in performance from this would be the Renaissance 15A, which retails for around 45 grand. Not a bad start to high-end stats! I do miss the midrange magic of my previous CAV45 with those EL34's, that midrange was something very special only found on EL34's. With the KT120's the sound is fuller and has far more weight, midrange is very open and smooth and has a superb blend with natural highs. The bass is the biggest factor of improvement, where it takes off to another level on the ML panels. Top to mid bass is outstanding and the seamless integration to lower bass is just marvelous. It is not as super fast as the CLX's though but very natural sounding and enjoyable for endless hours. I will have another late 4am session today as well, since I don't start work tomorrow till 4pm. life is good in Melbourne...

  

Yes, the room at Avant Garde was not too great/ balanced to begin with but after I visited Cameron for the third and final time, he also noticed this and corrected it accordingly. During the latter half of the Sun arvo, it was much better. Hence, if you were to bring this home, it would sound even better. If I’m correct Whatmore (Trev) has a similar model to the Uno’s, and he’s using tube amps. Perhaps Trev could shed more light on the Uno’s attributes. Once thing I noticed is that you can actually place the Uno’s close to the back wall, without having disastrous boom affects, unlike the previous AG models. The Uno’s have come a long way since and AG have done a marvelous job with the Uno’s engineering in this regard.

 

The ideal demos are where they sound really good at the dealer’s place/demo rooms, and then when you set up at home, they sound spectacular! That’s when you realize the money well spent, not the other way round. The Sennheiser headphones and others Beyer something from Germany were also great musical devices, I only got a chance to listen to the German ones. Very well made and constructed all round. For those with dedicated Head Phone amps, would find these superb value!

 

Well that’s about it for now, I do sincerely hope for the next show, at least Bill from McLeans would have some wonderful maggies on demo, and Connie gets his act together with AA ribbons. Would also certainly be nice to see Audio Active demo the latest range of the ML Masterpiece class, rather than the Paradigm Persona, which I think was way overpriced. I have had the older Paradigm Studio 100’s, not much of a difference dating back 16 years…

 

Cheers to all and have a good one, enjoy the music and look after your gear! 

RJ

[Tony ray]

Yo Big Dog you can post a post a post. The room thing has always bothered me as I took the missus and she said if the system is that good it should sound good in any room.  So what is a suitable room to do a HiFi show in?

[joz]

Wow ! certainly no pleasing everyone.

 

 

 

[rantan]

Just now, joz said:

Wow ! certainly no pleasing everyone.

 

 

 

 

Pleasing everyone is impossible.

[joz]

Just now, rantan said:

 

Pleasing everyone is impossible.

 

Yes many of know that

[swervyn]

8 hours ago, Cardiiiii said:

I really enjoyed the show, it was nice to experience stuff that you wouldn't normally get to, like the Hulgich speakers and Holton amps which were the two stand outs in my humble opinion which were actually affordable. Also, @Keith_W, any idea which model that projector was? It was very very impressive for it's size.

This one?

[Cardiiiii]

4 minutes ago, swervyn said:

This one?

 

I think that's the one, thanks! 

[LogicprObe]

7 hours ago, Satanica said:

Presumably, this is consistent with what they think about the vast majority of their customers rooms.

 

That's right!

Everything would be perfect if we didn't have rooms!

[allthumbs]

Am I right to assume that the show is not primarily aimed at audio enthusiasts, but a forum for manufacturers to meet with dealers with the commercial priority of selling to the trade and the dealers to advertise their brand to the public.

 

I can't find a list of exhibitors, were Pioneer, Yamaha or Denon represented? In all trade shows sometimes the dominant market players in the market can attract bigger crowds especially if they are promoting new gear and smaller independents the minnows can profit from the exposure initially brought to the exhibition by the whales.

 

 

 

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

1 hour ago, Tony ray said:

Yo Big Dog you can post a post a post. The room thing has always bothered me as I took the missus and she said if the system is that good it should sound good in any room.  So what is a suitable room to do a HiFi show in?

Some rooms really are appalling - tiles, big glass windows and doors, hard floors and so on. It should be possible to treat a hotel room with curtains - floors are usually carpeted - and choose suitable speakers to get a half decent sound if not a great one. But no system will sound good in "any room". Go set your stuff up in the bathroom, QED.

[LogicprObe]

2 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

Some rooms really are appalling - tiles, big glass windows and doors, hard floors and so on. It should be possible to treat a hotel room with curtains - floors are usually carpeted - and choose suitable speakers to get a half decent sound if not a great one. But no system will sound good in "any room". Go set your stuff up in the bathroom, QED.

 

My singing always sounds much better in there.................

[in2deep]

Hi guys, just my two cents on the show;

 

Highlights

 

1. Girls at the ticket booth - super welcoming

2. Klipsch La Scalas with the Marantz amp setup.  I also wondered how they would sound driven by a valve amp

3. Melody amps with the JBL Everests 

 

Lowlights

 

1. Getting a demonstration of the JBL's in that large room with the NAD amps along the side wall when a large man turns the volume right down to answer his mobile phone

2. Wish JBL had more of there speaker range there that I could hear

3. Some of the rooms were so smelly that I had to leave

 

Also common feeling I got walking around the show was that there was too much attitude and not very welcoming

 

Disappointing show - would I go back probably not.

[Jventer]

1 hour ago, in2deep said:

 

3. Some of the rooms were so smelly that I had to leave

 

Also common feeling I got walking around the show was that there was too much attitude and not very welcoming

 

Disappointing show - would I go back probably not.

Sorry that you feel that way.

It could be that the venue's aircon system is not used to that many people in the venue - that would be a valid issue and something @marc can take into consideration.

Nobody can help if others' body odours are too much - maybe wear a mask? Maybe it is something you have an issue with and others dont?

Regarding attitude - I have experienced it sometimes and I have not experienced it sometimes.

My view is that when people do display it  - I will ignore them. 

But I dont punish others for the sins of some.

Why dont you give and forgive and try to pick the good out of everything?

(I am not blaming or condascending - just trying to focus on the positive.)

 

 

 

[audiofeline]

Re: Attitude. I did hear one exhibitor say something which was slightly insensitive to one visitor's musical taste.  To be generous to the exhibitor, I thought it was probably was an attempt at humour which didn't work, and that on a Sunday arvo after three exhausting days of dealing with all sorts of polite and impolite people he was probably tired and not thinking clearly.  Having worked at exhibitions before I know they take a lot of energy out of you. 

 

Re: rooms.  The physics of audio means that HiFi is always an interaction with room dimensions and room construction materials.  HiFi is designed and made for domestic contexts, which are different to hotel rooms.  I noted that some exhibitors had acoustic panels or positioned speakers on the diagonal to try to manage room acoustics, others did not.  Some systems coped better with these limitations better than others.  Despite this, I think it was possible to get a sense of the quality of the different equipment being demonstrated.  I did not feel I heard any of the equipment to it's full potential in the hotel rooms, and I did not expect it was possible.  I walked out feeling that some equipment was to my taste, some I didn't like, and others I wasn't sure of.  And from the comments posted, I feel that most other visitors were able to do the same. 

[Satanica]

17 minutes ago, audiofeline said:

 HiFi is designed and made for domestic contexts, which are different to hotel rooms.

I'm thinking this is mostly a fallacy. For starters what do you think designers do to facilitate typical domestic listening rooms over hotel rooms, can you give me an example? Most of us end users seem to have domestic rooms that are far less than ideal.

[joz]

The funny thing was I heard more rude show attendants than distributors, one in particular who made it loud and clear about what he didn't want to hear.

i wonder if his ears were burning as others in the room were making comments about him when they left ?

[audiofeline]

2 minutes ago, Satanica said:

I'm thinking this is mostly a fallacy. For starters what do you think designers do to facilitate typical domestic listening rooms over hotel rooms, can you give me an example? Most of us end users seem to have domestic rooms that are far less than ideal.

Firstly, I acknowledge that domestic rooms vary greatly as acoustic environments - in size and furnishings.   At the show a number of exhibitors spoke about the construction of the hotel room - concrete floor and ceilings (and walls?), and some had extensive glass on a wall.  This construction is less likely to absorb sound and to reflect it (esp. bass), and the small size of the room may have been more likely to create difficult low-frequency standing waves (emphasizing or cancelling certain low frequency sounds). 

 

Domestic rooms generally have plaster walls and ceilings that will absorb some sound, and have some sound-absorbency (eg. curtains, carpet, couches, paintings, etc).  Domestic rooms for high-end equipment are usually larger than the hotel rooms, so some speakers may sound better when sitting further away than the closeness of many of the demos at the show.  So I would think that hifi speaker designers would tend to have this context in mind, rather than designing for a concrete box.  Just as cinema speakers are designed for an extremely large spaces, and other speakers are designed for outdoor use. 

 

I'm by no means an expert in this area, and I'm sure there are some here who do have more expertise.  But that's what I've been able to pick up over the years. 

[Addicted to music]

2 hours ago, in2deep said:

Hi guys, just my two cents on the show;

 

Highlights

 

1. Girls at the ticket booth - super welcoming

2. Klipsch La Scalas with the Marantz amp setup.  I also wondered how they would sound driven by a valve amp

3. Melody amps with the JBL Everests 

 

Lowlights

 

1. Getting a demonstration of the JBL's in that large room with the NAD amps along the side wall when a large man turns the volume right down to answer 

3. Some of the rooms were so smelly that I had to leave

 

Also common feeling I got walking around the show was that there was too much attitude and not very welcoming

 

Disappointing show - would I go back probably not.

I'm sorry but I disagree absolutely disagree with your comment that I highlighted at the show.  Everyone I bumped into were super plesesant... All the exhibitors who I came in contacted with were absolute nice to have a discussion with.   Anytime I asked to be accomodated the exhibitors where nice enough to ablige.  Thanks to the Beyerdynamic prep who was nice enough to allow me to connect to my iPhone so I can hear the Amiron.  These guys were moving discounted headphone stands by the carton load.  The Sennheiser rep knew exactly what I wanted to hear and was superaccomidating and helpful.   The Devialet guy in the home theatre demo was so informative that I just hanged around like a bad smell and forgot the time!   And this Is all on a Sunday!  Give credit where credit is due becuase these people have moved heaven on earth to be there,  some I understand had technical issues and couldnt demo certain equipment.   If one room is busy you move to the next, no good hanging around when there's a room pack full of people that it's a safety issue!  Return when you see it less busy and the exhibitor will have a better chance to speak with you!   And believe it or not, I was only there a few hours.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

dear fellow members, I write this note to everyone with my sincere apologies.

I was just talking with whatmore ( Trev) and according to him, my opening statements ref to the show were quite damaging and offensive and has made many upset. Therefore, I just wanted to say sorry for upsetting anyone, that was certainly not my intention...

I am a very passionate person when it comes to audio and I'm overly passionate towards stats & ribbons. hence perhaps the reason why I went slightly off the rails, sorry for that.

sometimes I do tend to go off like this, even the good wife has commented on my high end manners.... I need to work on that.

on a lighter side of things, being a Melbournian and having lived here for nearly 15 years, the show was well organized. parking & accessibility are very crucial to such venues and free parking on Sun certainly helps. Most of the rooms were obviously not ideal... but the gear on display were outstanding indeed. I was very disappointed though with the Halcro set up being a panel lover I was expecting more since they also had the ideal space for stats.

rooms being smelly or congested is obviously because of the rooms! if this was based in a large convention center then things would  be more airy. apart from that, I feel sorry for the exhibitors after all they're the ones who spend the entire 3 days in bloody congested environments, it's a wonder that none of them fainted, let alone put up with us public...

 

Overall, I think there was a lot of effort and energy put into this show, and I should be proud to have a show like this in our very own backyard! so well done to the organization committee and all exhibitors. I certainly learned a lot from that Sun and especially the time spent with Cameron at AG and Mac & SF speakers. again I'm terribly sorry if I have offended or upset anyone here and caused unnecessary drama, I will be more considerate the next time I post something. Thanks Trev for pointing that out, I do appreciate your honest feedback.

cheers to all and a big woof!

RJ

[Kaynin]

1 hour ago, Big Dog RJ said:

dear fellow members, I write this note to everyone with my sincere apologies.

I was just talking with whatmore ( Trev) and according to him, my opening statements ref to the show were quite damaging and offensive and has made many upset. Therefore, I just wanted to say sorry for upsetting anyone, that was certainly not my intention...

I am a very passionate person when it comes to audio and I'm overly passionate towards stats & ribbons. hence perhaps the reason why I went slightly off the rails, sorry for that.

sometimes I do tend to go off like this, even the good wife has commented on my high end manners.... I need to work on that.

on a lighter side of things, being a Melbournian and having lived here for nearly 15 years, the show was well organized. parking & accessibility are very crucial to such venues and free parking on Sun certainly helps. Most of the rooms were obviously not ideal... but the gear on display were outstanding indeed. I was very disappointed though with the Halcro set up being a panel lover I was expecting more since they also had the ideal space for stats.

rooms being smelly or congested is obviously because of the rooms! if this was based in a large convention center then things would  be more airy. apart from that, I feel sorry for the exhibitors after all they're the ones who spend the entire 3 days in bloody congested environments, it's a wonder that none of them fainted, let alone put up with us public...

 

Overall, I think there was a lot of effort and energy put into this show, and I should be proud to have a show like this in our very own backyard! so well done to the organization committee and all exhibitors. I certainly learned a lot from that Sun and especially the time spent with Cameron at AG and Mac & SF speakers. again I'm terribly sorry if I have offended or upset anyone here and caused unnecessary drama, I will be more considerate the next time I post something. Thanks Trev for pointing that out, I do appreciate your honest feedback.

cheers to all and a big woof!

RJ

 

 

RJ, it takes a bigger man to come back and say what you just have.  I applaud you for that.  I also applaud you for remaining in the thread and continuing to contribute - all too often people who post honest comments that ruffle a few feathers just leave and we never hear from them again.

 

I knew you started this thread in an honest and forthright manner, which no doubt is your personal manner, and you're entitled to do that.  Thank-you for contributing.  Your post above puts you and this thread into a new light, so hopefully some meaningful discussion can continue. 

[in2deep]

5 hours ago, in2deep said:

Hi guys, just my two cents on the show;

 

Highlights

 

1. Girls at the ticket booth - super welcoming

2. Klipsch La Scalas with the Marantz amp setup.  I also wondered how they would sound driven by a valve amp

3. Melody amps with the JBL Everests 

 

Lowlights

 

1. Getting a demonstration of the JBL's in that large room with the NAD amps along the side wall when a large man turns the volume right down to answer his mobile phone

2. Wish JBL had more of there speaker range there that I could hear

3. Some of the rooms were so smelly that I had to leave

 

Also common feeling I got walking around the show was that there was too much attitude and not very welcoming

 

Disappointing show - would I go back probably not.

The above comments are just my experience. 

If I was the organiser id like to know what the punters thought about it. 

Take the information to improve or leave it.