Al.M Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 12 hours ago, Michael Hope said: Wouldn't happen, the Chinese have never made anything original in their lives apart from Peking duck. Not true thousands of years ago they invented gun powder, paper, porcelain etc while Europeans were in the dark ages. There’s a reason why there are 1.3 billion of them, head start on the rest of the world, though they got off track the last few hundred years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I’ve bitten the bullet again a few weeks ago and ordered another knock off product preamp that I’m hoping will do as well as my last purchase of a Goldmund amp. hope to receive it around early Dec and may report back if moderator doesn’t pull trigger by then 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael Hope Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Al.M said: I’ve bitten the bullet again a few weeks ago and ordered another knock off product preamp that I’m hoping will do as well as my last purchase of a Goldmund amp. hope to receive it around early Dec and may report back if moderator doesn’t pull trigger by then Why would they pull the post????? And do you want to share your purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Michael Hope said: Why would they pull the post????? And do you want to share your purchase? Because there’s a big red moderator warning notice at the bottom of page I’ll keep the new purchase in suspense until then, assuming it arrives in one piece and is what I thought I ordered etc. Back in them truly communist Iron curtain days in 1988 I was backpacking around and found myself in Moscow and boarded the trans Siberian train in winter bound for Beijing. After 9 days in Russia with not much but really good vodka to consume I had the most amazing Peking duck, never had anything like it since. If you haven’t already visited China please do so, very interesting and they are just human like any others around he world and a lot of negativity about them should soon dissolve. Edited November 20, 2017 by Al.M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael Hope Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 The big red warning has gone. I totally envy you going on those travels. They sure have changed their country in a very short amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) Tried to look for hifi shops in Shanghai and Chengdu, came a across a few with lookalike mega speakers and gear but didn’t go the right places. Need to do better job of finding out next time. Joined several tours and mixed it with the locals, they are very sweet people really tried to help us despite the language barrier and our clumsiness, they were really honoured to have western foreigners as guests among them, would always look out for us, share and pay for our meals and tried to stop me using the ladies toilets because I couldnt figure out the signs. In a nice way they are very proud of their ancient culture that is now back on track and liked to let foreigners see it in a positive way. My biggest wish for China is that their regained economic success somehow results in political and human rights improvements than the current underlying scary potential situation. They have had a very rough time in the last few hundred years with their own Emperors loosing the plot, European and Japanese colonialism taking over their country selling opium back to their population, only to then have communism further ravage the place and now finally a brighter future. The futuristic Shanghai airport to city magnetic levitation train ride is amazing - 20km in 8min at 300kph for $8, in time for Peking duck Shanghai variation meal time Edited November 20, 2017 by Al.M 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolster Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 15 hours ago, Noum said: I can't see it, Wolster, but out of compliance, I'll avoid new members and especially Michael if that is how I'm being viewed. Makes no difference to me. 15 hours ago, Michael Hope said: I can't see it either @Noum. You didn't bait me and what you said was perfectly reasonable to say. Seems like you can't have an opinion either. This is just my opinion now but some very good information has come out of this to deter anyone who wants to buy a knock off. I'm a big boy now I wear big boy pants. No one has been disrespectful, launched any personal attacks, made any sort of insults or been offended that I can see. If I/we have point it out. Whats the problem????? Parliament question time is worse than this. @Noum @Michael Hope OK. I obviously misread the situation. My apologies. Carry on. This is a good thread 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) No worries, @wolster , I was all posted out and need a breather anyway Being vocal and opinionated like i am can be quit exhausting Edit: Meh...I don't really have anything I can add to this thread that wouldn't be me just repeating myself, and I do that too much as is. So I'll watch, I like to watch Edited November 21, 2017 by Muon N' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael Hope Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 @wolster All good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 @Addicted to music I agree with what your saying re: the economics of having stuff manufactured in China but it's still up to the western company seeking cheap manufacturing to ensure QC is up to 'their' standards.....if they care, that is. I still maintain Apple needs a bullet for allowing cheap components to be put in their products, ie; for not paying enough attention to quality output and paying too much attention to avoiding tax and the same can happen with audio manufacturing if the company has the same attitude as Apple. It's all about ethics and the two are intrinsically linked. It's why I own no Apple products. I don't like the way they do business...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aasza Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, stevoz said: It's why I own no Apple products. I don't like the way they do business...... I find it hilarious that Apple and Samsung are always taking each other to court over patents and arguing over who designed what tech first considering.... THE GALAXY AND iPHONE ARE MADE SIDE BY SIDE IN THE SAME FACTORY IN CHINA.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 @aasza "THE GALAXY AND iPHONE ARE MADE SIDE BY SIDE IN THE SAME FACTORY IN CHINA"...The price one pays for putting profit before quality and seeking out cheap labour.....in the land of IP theft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aasza Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, stevoz said: @aasza "THE GALAXY AND iPHONE ARE MADE SIDE BY SIDE IN THE SAME FACTORY IN CHINA"...The price one pays for putting profit before quality and seeking out cheap labour.....in the land of IP theft. And the manufacturer (Foxconn) in China recently sacked 60,000 workers and replaced them with robots... http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376966 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSmith Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Noum said: I like to watch Not listen? JSmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 2 hours ago, JSmith said: Not listen? JSmith To text? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swervyn Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I really think this discussion lends itself to a new thread "knockoffs I bought that perform incredibly well" In all honesty, everything is a knockoff from the original concept. Every single DAC is a knockoff from the first DAC ever created. Every single turntable is a knockoff from the first turntable created. There may have been lots of tweaks along the way but essentially they all do the same thing on different levels. The problem I see is that audiophiles who have spent mega thousands on their brand name setup would be mortified to think that the same (or near) result could of been achieved by spending many thousands less on a clone. Jo Bloggs spent $19500 on a brand name amp and is proud as punch, invites all the neighbours over to see his pride and joy. Jo is now in the "audiophile club". Barry Bloggs (no relation) next door liked the look of it and paid $1500 for a clone from China that "looked" the same. As it turns out, it sounds pretty darn good too. Barry invited the neighbours over too, and they were really impressed with the sound his system has. Barry actually doesn't give a stuff about the "audiophile club", he is just happy with his cheapo amp that does the job and sounds pretty darn good. Jo however, is mortified, he just spent $19500 on an amp that sounds pretty much the same as Barry's $1500 one. Jo now looks like a total ****. Barry can buy 13 of his amps to Jo's 1. And this is why audiophiles hate cheapy clones. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSmith Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 10 minutes ago, swervyn said: And this is why audiophiles hate cheapy clones. I don't think that is the only reason... but fair call in a limited way. If beauty is in the eye of the beholder maybe component performance sometimes is too... JSmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swervyn Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, JSmith said: I don't think that is the only reason... but fair call in a limited way. If beauty is in the eye of the beholder maybe component performance sometimes is too... JSmith Quite right, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, maybe sometimes $$$ does not add up to the difference in performance though and blinds the beholder? Just briefly, and not audio based, I will add further to this: In 2004 I needed to buy a panel saw for work. Had not long had a bigger workshop and prior to this I was getting my materials cut up elsewhere, so all the double handling etc etc.had to end. So, I could either look at a European saw, basic model, around about $50-60k Or, I could consider a Chinese copy, around $7700 Problem was, Chinese copies were newish, there was nowhere to go and look at one (in TAS) to see the quality, so it was buy at your own peril, unseen, with only verbal guarantee it would be ok (from seller who had never seen one either) Wifezilla said "no way", we cannot afford either Problem was, I could not afford to not have one FFWD 13 years, I am still running the same panel saw, wifezilla has gone, I am still $40+K better off (apart from wifezilla, but that is a different story) and my saw still runs true, and does the same job a $50-$60K Altendorf does. Did I want an Altendorf? Hell yes! Would it of made me more money or done a better job? No, it would not have. 13 years and I have spent zero dollars on replacing anything on my Chinese copy machine. It gets the same maintenance I give to all my gear, ie: when things dont work properly I fix them. Actually quite proud of my purchased sight unseen Chinese knock off Edit: Mine was, and still is the first Chinese copy panelsaw in the state Edited November 21, 2017 by swervyn 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukynas Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 36 minutes ago, swervyn said: I really think this discussion lends itself to a new thread "knockoffs I bought that perform incredibly well" In all honesty, everything is a knockoff from the original concept. Every single DAC is a knockoff from the first DAC ever created. Every single turntable is a knockoff from the first turntable created. There may have been lots of tweaks along the way but essentially they all do the same thing on different levels. The problem I see is that audiophiles who have spent mega thousands on their brand name setup would be mortified to think that the same (or near) result could of been achieved by spending many thousands less on a clone. Jo Bloggs spent $19500 on a brand name amp and is proud as punch, invites all the neighbours over to see his pride and joy. Jo is now in the "audiophile club". Barry Bloggs (no relation) next door liked the look of it and paid $1500 for a clone from China that "looked" the same. As it turns out, it sounds pretty darn good too. Barry invited the neighbours over too, and they were really impressed with the sound his system has. Barry actually doesn't give a stuff about the "audiophile club", he is just happy with his cheapo amp that does the job and sounds pretty darn good. Jo however, is mortified, he just spent $19500 on an amp that sounds pretty much the same as Barry's $1500 one. Jo now looks like a total ****. Barry can buy 13 of his amps to Jo's 1. And this is why audiophiles hate cheapy clones. than we could add another level, diyaudio with pretty much same effect, clones for fraction of the cost, question is, do you wanna be proud of how much you paid or what you got? if Jo and Barry wouldn't know how much the other one paid than both might be happy, unfortunately in reality both would like to show off their new amps for different reasons so it's more likely they never be part of the same club I have no issue with diyaudio as I own several of those or Chinese cloned products with their own design but I would never buy Chinese copy ala Krell or Accuphase with original badge on it sold for few hundreds for 2 simple reasons, being afraid to get it through the customs and afraid to get what you pay for and in this case you might just get box full of useless parts... Chinese have no issue with buying their own domestic electronics but they will never buy copies, those are for us overseas, look at T-mall or Taobao, you can find high quality products for reasonable prices, more than ever before we can see hi-fi companies coming from China, Cayin, Shangling just to name few... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swervyn Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, kukynas said: than we could add another level, diyaudio with pretty much same effect, clones for fraction of the cost, question is, do you wanna be proud of how much you paid or what you got? if Jo and Barry wouldn't know how much the other one paid than both might be happy, unfortunately in reality both would like to show off their new amps for different reasons so it's more likely they never be part of the same club I have no issue with diyaudio as I own several of those or Chinese cloned products with their own design but I would never buy Chinese copy ala Krell or Accuphase with original badge on it sold for few hundreds for 2 simple reasons, being afraid to get it through the customs and afraid to get what you pay for and in this case you might just get box full of useless parts... Chinese have no issue with buying their own domestic electronics but they will never buy copies, those are for us overseas, look at T-mall or Taobao, you can find high quality products for reasonable prices, more than ever before we can see hi-fi companies coming from China, Cayin, Shangling just to name few... unfortunately in reality Jo is being a knob head and Barry doesnt really care. I do not agree with products being badged with the same name btw, am happy with Accuaphase or Krelle tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael Hope Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 2 hours ago, swervyn said: unfortunately in reality Jo is being a knob head and Barry doesnt really care. I do not agree with products being badged with the same name btw, am happy with Accuaphase or Krelle tho Burmster, Qaud, Yamama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, aasza said: And the manufacturer (Foxconn) in China recently sacked 60,000 workers and replaced them with robots... http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376966 I did not know that! Wow, even the Chinese peasant is now replacable.....we're doomed. Do businesses not realise they are killing off their own consumers by creating a future majority underclass or do they see a future in catering for the minority super rich only......'Elysium' here we come! Edited November 21, 2017 by stevoz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 8 hours ago, aasza said: And the manufacturer (Foxconn) in China recently sacked 60,000 workers and replaced them with robots... http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376966 So the workers have been cloned... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael Hope Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Chinese unemployment at 5%. Hmmmm 1.4billion @ 5% = LOTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael Hope Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 14.30 WE ARE DOOMED Edited November 21, 2017 by Michael Hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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