Htpc For The Sxrd

[MLXXX]

A question about the Xbox HD-DVD drive: does it integrate within Media Center, or are you quitting out of Media Center and just doing it through the desktop? I think the latter. Just wondering if it's easy to set it up such that the wife can just scoll there with the remote or not.

The basic Vista Media Centre software doesn't play HD-DVDs. The best approach is to actually quit media centre, to avoid any potential conflicts. It can still do scheduled recordings in the background. [However, it is possible to set media centre so that it will invoke another player if it senses an HD-DVD.]

As I'm typing this on my HTPC, it is playing an HD-DVD in a separate window. And Vista Media Centre although not active on the desktop, is performing a scheduled recording of an FTA program.

If your wife can quit media centre, all she would need to do is insert an HD-DVD in the Xbox HD-DVD player, and PowerDVD 7.3 if you can get that software will auto-launch. The software for playing HD-DVD/Bluray is only just becoming available.

[AndrewWilliams]

Thanks for that.

I'm using 158.18, so will go hunting for the Betas. Also, it would not surpise if the decoder is the problem. I'm using Vista x64, and getting codecs has proved problematic. Had to install a codec pack to get a 64-bit Divx codec. The pack installed ffdshow for good measure.

Actually it looks like they've made 158 stable as of May 2. Last time I checked it was still beta. Sorry.

[O-3]

I am about to order the following system from AusPCMarket, which I have devised mainly as a result of the advice in the forum, for which I thank everybody.

Before doing so I wonder if anyone has any comments. Positive and negative welcomed.

SilverStone SST-LC17 Black Aluminium-front Desktop case, 2x 5.25, 6x 3.5 internal, front IO, no PSU

Zalman 460W quiet ATX P4 power supply, 20/24pin ATX, 120mm fan, 2x PCI-E video power, 8-pin - due 30/5

Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 Pro LGA775 P4/C2D P965 board, 1066FSB, PCI-x16

Intel Core2 Duo E6600 2.40Ghz (Conroe 1066mhz) Processor, Dual core LGA775 4mb cache, w/Intel Cooler

Corsair Twin2X 2048MB 240-pin DDR2 XMS2-6400 Twin Pack (2x 1024mb

500Gb Samsung 7200rpm SATA300 hard disk, 16mb cache

Gigabyte Geforce 8500GT 256mb DDR3 PCI-E x16 video card, VGA and DVI, s-video/component out, fanless

Pioneer DVR-212D Black OEM SATA DVD-RW, 8x DVD+/-DL, 18x DVD+/-R, 6x DVD-RW, 8x DVD+RW, 40x CD-R w/software

Hauppauge Nova-T-500 MCE Dual-Digital TV Tuner PCI card, OEM, for use with Windows MCE2005 / Vista, half/full height

MS Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit DVD, OEM boxed, for System

According to AusPCMarket the components are compatible and they would build it and test it and deliver for just under $2000, which sounds fair to me.

This looks good Pietro.

Have you looked at the Zalman HD-160??

The advantage with getting this case will be that it comes with an MCE remote and also an IR-trans receiver(these are the best).

Your current case does not include a remote or IR receiver so you will have to buy both of those if you want to use a remote.

I also agree that you need a quieter CPU cooler.

Looking at AusPc, I'd go with a Thermaright Ultra 90 paired with the quietest 90mm fan they stock.(or ask them for the quietest solution, you want something under 20DBA)

With your silent video card,case fans set at 5 volt(tell them to do this) and a quiet CPU cooler, you won't be able to hear your HTPC over the fan of the SXRD.

[drsmith]

A question about the Xbox HD-DVD drive: does it integrate within Media Center, or are you quitting out of Media Center and just doing it through the desktop? I think the latter. Just wondering if it's easy to set it up such that the wife can just scoll there with the remote or not.

The vista media centre will play DVD content from the XBOX drive but I have not yet been able to get it to play high definition material in any form.

[Owen]

All I can say is that I haven't thus far hit upon anything that I can confirm is a failing of this card. However, it seems I am in the remedial section as far as having the expertise to set up all of the software that will affect my picture, so I am probably not the strongest recommendation.

No warmer than ambient room temperature? That's a fair effort. I was pretty pleased that my case temp has never hit 40C, but it seems I'm setting my standards too low....

40 degrees is a VERY high case temperature mate, god knows what everything else is running at. Your hard disk will not appreciate the heat at all, as it’s probably running at around 50-55 degrees.

I just checked my HTPC with E6600, nVidia 8800 and single hard disk, the case temperature is at worst 6 degrees above the surrounding room temp.

If your case dose not have a tube that covers the CPU to supply cool outside air, it will be recycling hot air from around the CPU heat sink and CPU temp will go up significantly and so will CPU fan speed and hence noise. If the CPU is kept cool, the fan never works hard and stays quite.

I am achieving this level of cooling using only the 140mm power supply fan and a single 90mm rear mounted case fan on 7 volts.

If I stress test the CPU by playing two 1080 h.264 HDDVD moves simultaneously using software decoding only (which the system handles just fine), I cant get the CPU fan to run faster then 1400RPM, which is not noisy.

Because so much air is drawn down the CPU vent tube and over the CPU heat sink by the power supply and case fans, I recon I could disable the CPU fan completely and still maintain perfectly acceptable CPU temps.

My server with 9 hard disks and similar ventilation arrangements runs even cooler.

[pietro1503559499]

I used the Silverstone remote for a while before I got my MCE remote and it was more than adequate. The MCE remote has a slightly better tactile feel though and doesn't require any additional software to work so that's the only reason I'm using it.

EDIT: Not sure if the LC17 comes with the remote does it? - I'm using an LC16M

There was no mention of a remote.

[sold]

40 degrees is a VERY high case temperature mate, god knows what everything else is running at.

It's quite possible that's a motherboard temp rather than a true case temperature. e.g. my motherboard temp is showing 27 degrees at the moment, discs are running at 28 and 29 degrees.

[pietro1503559499]

It's quite possible that's a motherboard temp rather than a true case temperature. e.g. my motherboard temp is showing 27 degrees at the moment, discs are running at 28 and 29 degrees.

Do you have to physically measure these or is there an app. that gives you all this info?

[sold]

Do you have to physically measure these or is there an app. that gives you all this info?

You can use an app, http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php is one option.

[pietro1503559499]

You can use an app, http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php is one option.

Thanks. Checking it out.

[merovingian]

Actually it looks like they've made 158 stable as of May 2. Last time I checked it was still beta. Sorry.

No worries.

I've uninstalled the Vista Codec Pack. Must have seen media centre crash at least 5 times now due to an exception from the xvidcore.dll in this pack. Consequently, I don't trust the ffdshow that was included in it, and which had replaced the standard Vista MPEG2 decoder. So maybe it's part of my TV trouble. I'm going to run for a while with just the standard decoder and see how I go.

[merovingian]

If your wife can quit media centre, all she would need to do is insert an HD-DVD in the Xbox HD-DVD player, and PowerDVD 7.3 if you can get that software will auto-launch. The software for playing HD-DVD/Bluray is only just becoming available.

It's not that she's incapable of doing this. It's more the fact that I'm leaving myself open to flak after having spent money to create a machine that doesn't look or act like a PC, but then requiring her to go to the Windows desktop and use a mouse. I've dug a big hole for myself by talking up the all-you-need-is-the-remote-control angle. :-)

[merovingian]

40 degrees is a VERY high case temperature mate, god knows what everything else is running at. Your hard disk will not appreciate the heat at all, as it’s probably running at around 50-55 degrees.

I just checked my HTPC with E6600, nVidia 8800 and single hard disk, the case temperature is at worst 6 degrees above the surrounding room temp.

If your case dose not have a tube that covers the CPU to supply cool outside air, it will be recycling hot air from around the CPU heat sink and CPU temp will go up significantly and so will CPU fan speed and hence noise. If the CPU is kept cool, the fan never works hard and stays quite.

I am achieving this level of cooling using only the 140mm power supply fan and a single 90mm rear mounted case fan on 7 volts.

If I stress test the CPU by playing two 1080 h.264 HDDVD moves simultaneously using software decoding only (which the system handles just fine), I cant get the CPU fan to run faster then 1400RPM, which is not noisy.

Because so much air is drawn down the CPU vent tube and over the CPU heat sink by the power supply and case fans, I recon I could disable the CPU fan completely and still maintain perfectly acceptable CPU temps.

My server with 9 hard disks and similar ventilation arrangements runs even cooler.

I never said I had a case temperature of 40 degrees.

"sold" has correctly deduced that I am talking about the "system" temperature reported by the motherboard. It's currently reporting 38C degrees as I type this, with CPU reporting 32C, and CPU fan at ~700rpm.

My case (OrigenAE X11) does not include anything special for the CPU. It has two 80mm exhaust fans at rear and one 80mm intake fan at the front (in the floor, plus an additional vent in the floor of the case). I haven't checked the hard drive temperature, but the intake fan blows straight onto it. I've re-wired all 3 case fans from 12V to 5V to reduce noise. This had exactly zero impact on the reported temperatures.

I haven't stress-tested the system to determine where the noise and heat maxes out, but will do so soon. After I sort out my codec issues.

[MLXXX]

It's not that she's incapable of doing this. It's more the fact that I'm leaving myself open to flak after having spent money to create a machine that doesn't look or act like a PC, but then requiring her to go to the Windows desktop and use a mouse. I've dug a big hole for myself by talking up the all-you-need-is-the-remote-control angle. :-)

Mmn, then it will be worth the effort to maintain the fiction reality all you need is a remote. I haven't bothered to do what this article suggests, but it seems to provide a solution.

[merovingian]

Mmn, then it will be worth the effort to maintain the fiction reality all you need is a remote. I haven't bothered to do what this article suggests, but it seems to provide a solution.

That seems like a decent interim measure. However, it's probably just a matter of time before we see some good HD-DVD/Blu-ray player add-ins for Media Center, if such things don't already exist.

[Owen]

I never said I had a case temperature of 40 degrees.

"sold" has correctly deduced that I am talking about the "system" temperature reported by the motherboard. It's currently reporting 38C degrees as I type this, with CPU reporting 32C, and CPU fan at ~700rpm.

Sorry my misunderstanding, system temperature as reported by the motherboard is not reliable and cant be used to compare different systems.

I use a Raytek infrared non contact thermometer to measure systems and components directly so I get reliable readings.

The minimum speed my Asus P5B mother board will rum the standard Intel E6600 fan is 1200rpm, and since it makes less noise then the hard drive at that speed I have no incentive to replace it.

The motherboard monitor reports system temp at 33 degrees in a 21 degree room, where as the real case internal temp is 26.

My case (OrigenAE X11) does not include anything special for the CPU. It has two 80mm exhaust fans at rear and one 80mm intake fan at the front (in the floor, plus an additional vent in the floor of the case). I haven't checked the hard drive temperature, but the intake fan blows straight onto it. I've re-wired all 3 case fans from 12V to 5V to reduce noise. This had exactly zero impact on the reported temperatures.

I haven't stress-tested the system to determine where the noise and heat maxes out, but will do so soon. After I sort out my codec issues.

Most fans move very little air on 5 volts, and since you noted no change in temp when you slowed then down, you can probably turn some or all of then off all together.

A good case setup does not need three fans, one (not including the power supply) should be plenty if everything is working well, and in low power systems, no case fan should be needed. The power supply fan should be sufficient if you control air flow by tapping over unnecessary vents to force air to take the path you want it to, which is something I always do.

I don’t recommend running 12 volt fans on 5 volts as many have problems starting reliably. 7 volts is much safer, moves more air and noise is little different.

It also important to cut out the grid that covers the case fan openings if they are just stamped out of the case. The chrome wire covers are fine.

With the grid removed, air flow is much improved and noise reduced.

[bjanssen]

Hi MLXXX, I was wondering what video/audio decoders you were using for Vista Media Centre, or are you using the ones that came with Vista?

Thanks, BJ.

[merovingian]

The motherboard monitor reports system temp at 33 degrees in a 21 degree room, where as the real case internal temp is 26.

I'm a bit obsessed with room temperatures in my house, and consequently I have 5 digital thermometers. So I will get off my lazy backside and use one to make some more accurate measurements of the case temperature.

Most fans move very little air on 5 volts, and since you noted no change in temp when you slowed then down, you can probably turn some or all of then off all together.

I agree. But since I can't hear them at 5V, I figured I might as well leave three going.

I don’t recommend running 12 volt fans on 5 volts as many have problems starting reliably. 7 volts is much safer, moves more air and noise is little different.

Yes, but I don't like sinking current from 3 fans back into the 5V rail of my PSU. Probably it would soldier on fine, but it's not quite above board. My fans have been starting reliably so far, but I agree that it's something I need to watch out for. If I drop back to one fan as you suggest, I would probably go back to 7V.

[pietro1503559499]

I just ordered my HTPC. I took Owen's advice and changed to card to fanless Gigabyte 8600GT. Apart from that it's as stated originally. Now the fun starts!

Thanks again for everyone's advice.

[merovingian]

I just ordered my HTPC. I took Owen's advice and changed to card to fanless Gigabyte 8600GT. Apart from that it's as stated originally. Now the fun starts!

Thanks again for everyone's advice.

We may have collectively let you down here a little bit: the Gigabyte 8600GT does not support HDCP. This may not be an issue anyway since you have no Blu-ray or HD-DVD drive in your spec (I think).

[pietro1503559499]

We may have collectively let you down here a little bit: the Gigabyte 8600GT does not support HDCP. This may not be an issue anyway since you have no Blu-ray or HD-DVD drive in your spec (I think).

I have a separate Tosh HD-E1. And with OZ bandwidth limitations I don't see myself d/l any HD DVD in the near future. (H.264 compressions being a separate issue) Is HDCP only relevant for those 2 technologies?

[drsmith]

So far I have found Vista and the 8600GTS a mixed bag for HTPC use.

While I have been able to achieve GPU acceleration for HD-DVD in Vista and can now play HD-DVD from the xBox HD-DVD player, GPU based H.264 acceleration is still ellusive. Hopefully I will do better in XP once Nvidia release updated drivers.

The Vista media center application has a number of positive features, but I have also encountered the folowing problems;

1) I can only play a limited number of HD formats with it and these do not include HD-DVD or H.264. The HD-DVD XML file solution did not work.

2) Playback of HD free to air content causes Vista to crash, blue screen of death style. This may be reception related as the picture either freezes or partially breaks up prior to Vista crashing.

On a more positive note the Microsoft media centre remote that I purchased a few months ago work with the Vista media centre.

While I am yet to compare live TV between the Sony STB and the Vista media centre, playback of a couple of recorded sport segments (AFL and tennis) are not encouraging.

As it stands I will most likely only use Vista for HD-DVD playback and some other non HD material and XP for playback of everything else.

With the 8600GTS, black is set to 16 on the 0-255 greyscale for all video content on both operating systems. I therefore no longer need to set the brightness to 66 on the SXRD for HD content.

[pietro1503559499]

So far I have found Vista and the 8600GTS a mixed bag for HTPC use.

While I have been able to achieve GPU acceleration for HD-DVD in Vista and can now play HD-DVD from the xBox HD-DVD player, GPU based H.264 acceleration is still ellusive. Hopefully I will do better in XP once Nvidia release updated drivers.

The Vista media center application has a number of positive features, but I have also encountered the folowing problems;

1) I can only play a limited number of HD formats with it and these do not include HD-DVD or H.264. The HD-DVD XML file solution did not work.

2) Playback of HD free to air content causes Vista to crash, blue screen of death style. This may be reception related as the picture either freezes or partially breaks up prior to Vista crashing.

On a more positive note the Microsoft media centre remote that I purchased a few months ago work with the Vista media centre.

While I am yet to compare live TV between the Sony STB and the Vista media centre, playback of a couple of recorded sport segments (AFL and tennis) are not encouraging.

As it stands I will most likely only use Vista for HD-DVD playback and some other non HD material and XP for playback of everything else.

With the 8600GTS, black is set to 16 on the 0-255 greyscale for all video content on both operating systems. I therefore no longer need to set the brightness to 66 on the SXRD for HD content.

This all sounds a bit worrying. However, for the start I will be using the HTPC as my desktop attached to the the Dell 2405, until I am happy with its performance. I have had a TV outlet installed in the office.

I can't understand why you have the problem with H.264 as I get perfect playback on the SXRD using MPC with core AVC and Haali media splitter. This on my laptop with the 7300GS card. Have you tried this combination? Are the H.264 files .mkv? What sort of bitrate are these files? I'm assuming you are talking about HD-DVDs compressed with H.264 to about 10GB. Would this be correct?

I can change any component of my system until they start building it, but I hope it won't be necessary.

[merovingian]

Hey Doc, are you using 32-bit Vista, or 64 like me? The FTA HD troubles are what intrigue me the most, because my experience has not been trouble free. I have suffered two BSODs with this system and, frankly, they shocked me because I'd never see a BSOD in 5 years of using XP (although, admittedly, I never used XP as a HTPC). I was also suffering from fair bit of FTA HD stuttering & freezing, and also a number of errors that required Media Center to close itself, but at least the OS didn't crash (most of these errors were from the XVID codec).

However, since ripping the Vista Codec Pack out, my system has seemed more stable. The only real issue with FTA TV I have now is that I seem to have a pattern of 3 channels reporting "no signal currently available" when I'm recording another channel. Sometimes they improve to the point of giving audio, but just a solid green screen. As soon as the recording stops, live TV is back again on all 5 channels (I've disabled all but the 5 HD channels). I haven't been able to find anyone else with this issue, so I think it's some combination of the Digital Now tuner card (and drivers) on Vista x64. ie. There wouldn't be too many people in the world with this combo.

I haven't tested H.264, so can't offer any info about acceleration on the 8500GT.

Anyway, when my FTA TV does work, either live or playback from a recording, the PQ is good. I think my STB has, at best, a slight edge. However it's very hard to compare, and I still haven't played with any of the PQ settings in the Nvidia control panel.

BTW, the Media Center calibration tools are quite good for tuning your brightness and contrast settings on the SXRD. Using those, 57 is the highest brightness I could go to on my SXRD before the "moving X" became visible.

[MLXXX]

Hi MLXXX, I was wondering what video/audio decoders you were using for Vista Media Centre, or are you using the ones that came with Vista?

Thanks, BJ.

The PC came with a Hauppage twin DTV card installed by the supplier of my HTPC, which was a standard HTPC system with modifications I had requested. I cannot say what the supplier did in relation to drivers for the Hauppage card.

I presume though that essentially the PC when I collected it, came with default Vista Home Premium drivers [32 bit].

For my old Twinhan Visionplus DTV card, I needed to load BDA drivers from the Twinhan site. I recall this didn't work immediately but after I restarted the PC, the PC said it had found updated drivers. I accepted them and the Twinhan card has worked fine ever since.

I needed a registry edit to run three digital tuner devices in the media centre rather than the usual limit of 2.

For my ASUS 8600GT (HDCP compliant) video card I downloaded the latest Vista 32 bit driver from the manufacturer's website.

After that card was installed, I was able to play HD-DVD's fine, using Cyberlink Power DVD 7.2 ultra.

You mention some instability issues with your 64-bit edition of Vista. I have experienced a few BSOD episodes with my 32-bit edition but only when doing strange tests such as trying to play an HD-DVD on software that cannot handle it.

Playback of recorded DTV is smooth 99% of the time. On the whole I would give Vista Media Centre an 8.5 out of 10 rating for stability. It could be a bit better but I find it quite acceptable in ordinary use. One aspect that is a nuisance is the inability to get a mouse cursor away from the vista media centre in full screen mode (in a dual display setup) without reducing the vista application to less than full screen. This is probaby intended as a security feature to prevent casual users of the media centre from getting access to other applications and files on the PC.

The media centre is very slick for navigating through a recorded file. It would be nice if it allowed bookmarks but it doesn't. Also there is no editing of the video. It does offer a resume facility for a partially viewed recording - a feature we are using frequently.

The EPG implementation is ok (we're using IceTV) and very handy.