Audio UPnP server: which parts / prebuilt HTPC in Aus

[was_a]

Hi all,

 

I'm in the process of upgrading my UPnP streaming setup, streaming local files from a library stored on SSD in my computer.

 

Currently using Intel i3 7100 chipset with Gigabyte B250M small-version motherboard, housed in a low-profile fanless Silverstone case, with basic NVIDIA GT-1030 graphics card. I dual-boot between WinServer2019 for audio and Win10 for everyday duties— including HTTP video streaming to smart TV.

 

I want to take the next step up the ladder with an externally powered mobo (linear supply or ifi Elite) and matching CPU. I plan to buy a JCAT Femto network card. I'd upgrade the NVIDIA graphics card too.

 

Looking for build ideas, or where to source pre-built HTPCs. In my (little) mind I favour low-powered chipsets (Xeon E2224 i3, for example) as I believe this lowers the noise-floor, but I'm open to correction! 

 

All suggestions for individual components or builds welcome.

 

If anyone on SNA offers a relevant service please let me know.

 

Many thanks, Ric (Maroubra, Sydney).

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2024 by was_a

[Keith_W]

Hello Ric! It is easy to build a PC, all you need are the parts  The most important part to choose first is the case, because that dictates what other parts will fit in it. For a HTPC, you need to decide if you want to keep it in the same room as the rest of your equipment (which means it needs to be as silent as possible, preferably fanless), or if you want to keep it in another room (in which case, it can be as big / ugly / noisy as you like). Keeping a PC in another room is feasible these days, because you can have wireless HDMI, wireless USB, and of course wi-fi. The only downsides are the additional cost to purchase all the wi-fi adapters and you will have to configure it to WOL (Wake on LAN) or physically walk there to turn it on. 

 

If you want to keep your PC in your living room, I recommend a Streacom case. Many models are fanless and passively cooled. I use a Streacom FC10. These have a few  downsides - they are more expensive, cooling capacity is limited (usually TDP 90-110W depending on model), choice of motherboard is limited (you will have to go for smaller mobos which are known to fit), and the build is a little more complex because you need to route the heat pipes. However, build quality is superb and so are the instructions that come with the case. 

 

I am happy to talk you through your build. Once you have all the parts, the rest is simple. 

Edited February 15, 2024 by Keith_W

[Snoopy8]

It does depend on how much you want to spend, and also how tidy.  Can be fanless, low or high powered CPUs.

 

Cheapest is probably a Pi5, with a Pcie extension cable for the USB card.  Then a NUC with a M.2 to Pcie extension cable.  Both these options allow you to plug in an external LPS. But you will have put up with an external cable and card (enclose with 3D print case?)

 

Then you move up to a normal PC, with upgraded ATX power supplies, external case etc.  And at the top, special builds with internal LPS.

 

Note that in all these cases, you will be responsible for putting together the operating system and music player software.  Not difficult but you must be comfortable doing it, and occasionally trouble shoot.

[was_a]

Thanks a lot Keith and Snoop for your replies. 

 

I have a Silverstone HTPC low-profile case similar in size to Streacom (although I'm open to buying the Streacom, FC10 looks good). I'd install a fanless cooler, some of which, I've discovered, do fit into these DVD-style cases—only just!

 

OS is no problem—I use Windows Server 2019, Audiophile Optimizer, streaming local files on SSD via UPNP, using Audirvana Origin software.

 

My questions are mainly which specific motherboard and CPU to use, how to hook up a LPS, or whether to use an internal LPS option and if so, which mobo / CPU....!

 

Thanks again Keith for the tips so far and offer to assist. I'd appreciate your

advice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2024 by was_a

[Snoopy8]

Did not realise you already have a case and was looking for info on motherboard and CPUs. Not my area.

 

There are  very high end  $$$$$ ATX power supplies, one coming and another available 

https://www.faradpowersupplies.com/super-atx/

https://jcat.eu/product/optimo-s-atx/

 

Coming down to earth

https://hdplex.com/hdplex-500w-gan-aio-atx-power-supply.html

https://hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-250w-gan-aio-atx-psu.html

 

Or get a converter

https://hdplex.com/hdplex-500w-hi-fi-dc-atx-power-supply-12v-48v-wide-range-voltage-input.html

 

My only other comment is using Windows for music.     But I have no wish to start yet another debate. 

 

Best wishes for your build...

[was_a]

Thanks Snoopy - really appreciate the links. Regarding Windows, I'm open to Linux option or whatever you suggest.

[Snoopy8]

8 minutes ago, was_a said:

Thanks Snoopy - really appreciate the links. Regarding Windows, I'm open to Linux option or whatever you suggest.

If you are happy with Windows and have not used Linux, suggest  staying with Windows. 

 

All Linux distributions require knowing some Linux commands, which puts a lot of people off.  Likely,  a Linux setup will require more troubleshooting in the pursuit of better SQ.  

 

I am actively involved with SnakeOil OS

https://www.snakeoil-os.net/

 

[was_a]

The ATX power supplies you linked - as good as LPS? They do have a couple of LPS options as well, I notice.

 

The more I delve into network streaming, the more important low-noise components become, I'm finding, especially power supplies.

 

(I've tried a dozen-plus linear-supplies over the years and many were quite noisy! For certain components, like my streamer and network switch, the ifi Elite is preferable to my ears).

 

 

Edited February 15, 2024 by was_a

[Keith_W]

1 hour ago, was_a said:

Thanks a lot Keith and Snoop for your replies. 

 

I have a Silverstone HTPC low-profile case similar in size to Streacom (although I'm open to buying the Streacom, FC10 looks good). I'd install a fanless cooler, some of which, I've discovered, do fit into these DVD-style cases—only just!

 

OS is no problem—I use Windows Server 2019, Audiophile Optimizer + Fidelizer, streaming local files on SSD via UPNP, using Audirvana Origin software.

 

My questions are mainly which specific motherboard and CPU to use, how to hook up a LPS, or whether to use an internal LPS option and if so, which mobo / CPU....!

 

Thanks again Keith for the tips so far and offer to assist. I'd appreciate your advice.

 

 

 

 

The Streacom has a built-in CPU cooler, so you do not need to buy a third party cooler. 

 

 

This is how it is supplied (all the parts are individually bagged of course). That CPU cooler comes apart and comes in 2-3 parts. The first part is the CPU plate, which you attach to your CPU. It has grooves machined into it to accept the heatpipes. There is an optional second part which is a heatblock riser to accommodate shorter CPU's. I ordered one of these just in case, but I have never used mine. Then you install your motherboard, run the heatpipes into the grooves, and screw down the third part to fasten the heatpipes in place. 

 

In practice it is a little fiddly because those heatpipes have a mind of their own and do not seem to like the idea of being imprisoned by the CPU heat sink and try to escape! But with a bit of persistence you can get it to stay. 

 

Click this link to download a copy of the FC10 assembly manual. If you go to Page 5, you will see that ATX, mATX, and mITX motherboards are supported. However, if you choose a larger motherboard, you will no longer have space inside the case to fit a power supply, and you will need to use an external power supply. 

 

 

Power supplies for HTPC's are a religious debate by itself, similar to cable debates and ethernet switch debates. Some people believe in Linear PSU's, and some think that a SMPS is adequate. However - whatever you choose, your PSU needs to be fanless and be able to supply as much power as your hardware needs. I went with a Streacom SMPS, it is fanless, and installs neatly inside the case. I have demonstrated in my own system that there is no measurable difference at DAC output with an LPSU (which I used to own), so I sold it. The advantage of SMPS is simplicity, convenience, and low cost. An LPSU is expensive, heavy, low output (unless you get a super expensive one!) and to me the benefits are questionable. But I am not going to tell you what to think, you can decide that for yourself

 

The Streacom has a TDP limit of 95W. I am using an Intel i9-9900K which has a TDP of exactly 95W. In normal usage, about 10-15% CPU, my CPU temps are between 60-70C depending on ambient. I have seen it go up to 90C on full load. Newer CPU's offer more processing power for the same TDP, so unless you have heavy processing needs (e.g. HQPlayer, or you require video processing), the Streacom will be adequate. 

 

I would recommend you choose a mITX motherboard with all the features that you need. For me, I needed on-board video, Wi-Fi, and at least 6 USB ports. You may choose to use a graphics card (in which case cooling is more complicated, you either use Streacom's complex graphics cooling solution and be limited by TDP, or you need to accept fans). Virtually all of them have built-in networking. 

Edited February 15, 2024 by Keith_W

[Snoopy8]

2 minutes ago, was_a said:

The ATX power supplies you linked - as good as LPS? They do have a couple of LPS options as well, I notice.

 

(I've tried a dozen-plus linear-supplies over the years and many were quite noisy, actually, and for certain components, like my streamer and network switch, the ifi Elite is preferable to my ears).

No personal experience. 

 

They are obviously not as good as Farad and JCAT but far, far cheaper. 

 

It comes down to what you are prepared to pay to get the SQ you want.  I took a "shortcut" with an Intel NUC which takes a DC input.

[was_a]

Wonderful, chaps, thanks so much for your help. That'll really guide my research.

[Keith_W]

First things first   You need to decide on: 

 

- What programs are you going to run? This will dictate your CPU power needs (and in turn, cooling and case needs) 

- Do you really need to go fanless? As I pointed out earlier, you can place your PC in another room and run wireless HDMI/USB. 

- Budget? 

 

Snoopy's suggestion of a NUC is a good, convenient option and saves you the trouble of assembling a PC yourself. These days NUC's are quite powerful and they are certainly a valid option. The only argument against a NUC is that many parts inside the NUC are proprietary and not easily available, so make sure you choose a NUC from a reputable manufacturer and ask a lot of questions about support. I personally prefer standard components which I can service myself, but this is a matter of preference rather than an absolute necessity. 

[Snoopy8]

For reference of @was_a, I am using a 11th gen i7 processor (and there are even more powerful options) in a fanless rugged case.

 

https://www.asus.com/displays-desktops/nucs/nuc-elements/

This has been complicated by ASUS taking over the NUC business from Intel but hopefully the dust has settled.

 

It is much easier way to put together a music streamer, but with limited expansion and options.   It is possible to build a better PC with carefully selected components, fanless case etc. but I chose to focus my efforts on the software side.

 

For ideas on what an ultimate PC look like, see Taiko and Pink Faun!  

[cazzesman]

Ric believe me when I tell you, building a Music PC can be a very deep rabbit hole.    I was in it once, but I dragged my way back to the sunlight. after I spent abit of money looking for the holy grail.  

 

 

You have to decide on a budget and what is important to your hearing.    The i9 I have, has some great components inside, but I think the two power supplies that drive it and the upgraded Mutec (with the better clock) really iced the cake. 

 

If you really want to go down the burrow, start reading this thread and have your mind blown, re DIY PC builds.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/239/#comment-1270083

 

It can be a mind frig deciding how to attack such a build.   Before you start you need a vision of what you want to achieve.  

 

Regards Cazzesman

Edited February 15, 2024 by cazzesman

[MattyW]

I sourced a MonsterLabo for my HTPC. Completely passively cooled and it has some real grunt too. Can even play some PC games on there