drsmith Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 My attempt at setting up a combined general purpose PC/HTPC have been less than sucessfull in terms of reliable HTPC operation, so I am considering a dedicated HTPC for my SXRD. I do however accept that I am still a relative novice at this kind of stuff so I have not given up. To that end I am interested in the recomendations of successful HTPC builders on the hardware and software that would best suit the Sony SXRD displays. I note that the Nvidia 8800 series of video cars are highly rated by some SXRD owners, so I suppose that is a start. For FTA viewing it would be interesting to know how much of an improvement in picture quality an HTPC can deliver over the Sony HD-STB hooked up to the SXRD.
50mxe20 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 List for Reference Only. Some are getting a bit long in the tooth but all have had substantial contributions: Dream Htpc what would you get How To Get Best Video Quality For A Htpc? An Htpc Success Story For Those Who Are Put Off Getting/building Their Own Htpc.. HTPC Sanity check. Exploding Head V - Enter the HTPC! Exploding Head IV - Return of the HTPC! Choosing an AGP video card for HTPC Poll: HTPC Operating System Enjoy!
pietro1503559499 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 I am also interested in the possibility of having the HTPC set up in an office but with the ability to play SD and HD video files on the SXRD in another room. Possibly with a network video player. Also I don't have the skills to build this beast so recommendations of reliable online suppliers/builders would also be helpful.
pietro1503559499 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 List for Reference Only.Some are getting a bit long in the tooth but all have had substantial contributions: Dream Htpc what would you get How To Get Best Video Quality For A Htpc? An Htpc Success Story For Those Who Are Put Off Getting/building Their Own Htpc.. HTPC Sanity check. Exploding Head V - Enter the HTPC! Exploding Head IV - Return of the HTPC! Choosing an AGP video card for HTPC Poll: HTPC Operating System Enjoy! Thanks for that informative looking list. I guess this thread will duplicate some of this but this will be completely up-to-date and specifically for SXRD users. And presumably nearly everyone starting afresh will be using Vista.
50mxe20 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 List for Reference Only.Some are getting a bit long in the tooth but all have had substantial contributions: Dream Htpc what would you get How To Get Best Video Quality For A Htpc? An Htpc Success Story For Those Who Are Put Off Getting/building Their Own Htpc.. HTPC Sanity check. Exploding Head V - Enter the HTPC! Exploding Head IV - Return of the HTPC! Choosing an AGP video card for HTPC Poll: HTPC Operating System Enjoy! Thanks for that informative looking list. I guess this thread will duplicate some of this but this will be completely up-to-date and specifically for SXRD users. And presumably nearly everyone starting afresh will be using Vista. Hopefully. I've heard some good things about Vista but bad things too. So maybe that's a starting point too. (Certainly you need to be quite careful about what graphics cards are supported).
sold Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 To that end I am interested in the recomendations of successful HTPC builders on the hardware and software that would best suit the Sony SXRD displays. With prices from MSY unless noted: CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz 775-Pin $445 If you aren't doing any video encoding/re-encoding then this is overkill and you really could drop it down to an E4300/E6300 or if you want something cheaper go with an AM2 X2 3600+/4200+/4600+ and also change the mobo. CPU Cooler: Thermalright SI-128 Heatsink $79 (PC Case Gear) Fan for CPU Cooler: Nexus 120 mm Real Silent Case Fan $29 (PC Case Gear) Motherboard: Gigabyte 965P-DS3P $190 RAM: 2 x 1GB Kingston 667MHz DDR2 $169 HDD: Western Digital 500GB SATAII $192 Western Digital 500GB SATAII $192 Add/remove HDD as required. Case: Coolermaster CM Media 281 $159 (PC Case Gear) Can change this to whatever you'd prefer. PSU: Seasonic S12 430W $129 (PC Case Gear) GPU: Gigabyte 7900GS $235 Replace this with your choice of 8800, though the lower models 8600, etc. are due out soon so it's probably worth waiting until then. Soundcard: Bluegears b-Enspirer $169 (Umart) If all the sound you are playing will either be stereo or DD/DTS then you could drop this and use the onboard. Optical Drive: 2 x Pioneer DVR-212D $104 You may not need two drives. TV Tuner: Whatever suits your needs. The hardware side of things really depends on your budget. Software is more complex. It depends on how you want to operate the HTPC, just with a remote or with a keyboard and mouse? Do you want everything integrated in one program or is it okay to have separate ones for watching live TV, playing back recorded TV, music, etc.
50mxe20 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 Motherboard: Gigabyte 965P-DS3P $190RAM: 2 x 1GB Kingston 667MHz DDR2 $169 I'd probably go a different motherboard. Maybe ASUS P5B Deluxe or P5W DH Hi Fi and DDR2 800 6400 RAM (Kingston/Corsair).
Mcrackn Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 How much are 2 X 1gb fast DDR2 sticks these days (corsair)? I haven't really kept up to date with RAM developments for a while.
pietro1503559499 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 I see the ASUS Nvidia 8800 GTS 320MB for about $500 on ebay. Does the actual brand matter much? I would pay this happily if it meant trouble free 1080i and 1080p on the SXRD. Would another $100 or so for the 640MB be total overkill?
pietro1503559499 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 Owen, I'm sure you'll be visiting this thread. I finally took your advice and investigated usenet. I see what you mean about the amount of HD material. Problem is the 40GB monthly limit! Will we ever get unlimited d/l in Australia? I don't think anyone offers them any more do they?
offshore Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 Mac Mini + EyeTV is a very effective and reliable solution. VGA, DVI, HDMI capable, plus has optical audio out. Will output 1920x1080 and above. Plus it comes with a remote and Media display software (Front Row). And there's the whole "it just works" factor.
AndrewWilliams Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 OK, I think I'm qualified to answer in this thread since I've just been through this process and my HTPC is working so well with my SXRD that I almost giggle like a little girl every time I use it. Software There's a lot to choose from and I've tried most of them over the last two years. I believe that the only real solution at this point in time is MCE 2005. Vista Media Center is good but there's just too many driver issues with common hardware for it to be a serious option. I reckon in about 12 months time it will be the number one pick. In any case it offers very little over MCE2005 and is only slightly better looking (some say it's too cluttered) MCE does pretty much everything. Instead of listing what it can do, here's what it can't do... - Can't play HD-DVD/Blu-ray (yet) However there is a 'My Movies' plugin for MCE which is capable of Launching PowerDVD 7.3 Ultra HD etc. - The 'My Music' section is a bit limited. It's good for people who have their audio files nicely organised in album folders, tagged etc but for people with a messy collection it's quite cumbersome. There aren't many options for sorting music. - Struggles with analogue TV (e.g. Foxtel) unless you have a hardware MPEG2 encoder card. Digital Austar/Select TV is possible but very tricky to set up. - Picture in picture (neat trick but pretty useless) - Can't save the TV timeshift buffer - a common problem with many PVRs. MCE requires a software MPEG2 decoder and it's really a no-brainer at the moment. PowerDVD 7 is easily the best in terms of compatibility and probably in terms of quality too. For virtually all other codecs (MPEG4, DivX, XviD, H264, AC3, DTS, MP3 etc) I find that newer versions of FFDShow do a perfect job. The only other software that I use is a program called 'Reclock' Reclock is a DirectShow filter that ensures that the video stays synced to the graphics card avoiding (or at least minimizing) judders which are a common problem with HTPCs and REALLY stick out on giant displays. Here are some 1920x1080 screen shots of my MCE set up. Main Menu TV Guide TV Recording TV Setup My Music My Movies (3rd Party Plugin) My Movies Detail My Movies Cast Info Movie Play Pretty cool, huh? Hardware For H264 and VC-1 based HD content (eg HD-DVD/Blu-ray), a dual core CPU is a must- Athlon 64X2 or Intel Core 2. Otherwise for SD (or MPEG-2 HD) (e.g. DTV) any modern CPU is fine. I'm using a Thermalright heatsink and a Nexus fan for excellent cooling and almost complete silence. (Bit expensive though) Graphics card - I'd recommend an nVidia 8800 or for a smaller budget, ATI x1XXX is much better than the cheaper nVidia cards. RAM 1GB is good. 512MB is adequate (if you're careful). HDD...anything that's big, fast and quiet. Stick with just one drive. Resist the temptation to put your old 40GB clunker in there as it'll create loads of whiney noise for very little benefit. I mounted my WD 320GB in a 5 1/4" drive bay with elastic cord. It's an old trick and the reduction in noise is incredible. TV Tuners. I'm using DigitalNow Quattro S PCI-e. $250 well spent but it's overkill for most people and there are much cheaper options. A Hauppauge PVR card will be needed for analogue (Foxtel) recording. Power Supply - I'm using a 430W Antec high efficiency - very quiet and doesn't put out much heat. For more than 1-2 HDDs I might need more wattage. Mouse - Logitech G7 wireless - overkill unless you're gaming. Windows MCE infra red keyboard + remote control. There are cheaper options such as using the remote that comes with a TV tuner card and mapping keyboard shortcuts for MCE. USB Keyboard with USB extension cord is a cheaper and better option for gaming. Hope that helps someone!
50mxe20 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 How much are 2 X 1gb fast DDR2 sticks these days (corsair)? I haven't really kept up to date with RAM developments for a while.Think I paid $A368.
Owen Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 Owen, I'm sure you'll be visiting this thread. I finally took your advice and investigated usenet. I see what you mean about the amount of HD material. Problem is the 40GB monthly limit! Will we ever get unlimited d/l in Australia? I don't think anyone offers them any more do they? I have an unlimited 512k account that costs only $59 per month, so it was possible to get.
Owen Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 You don’t need a dual core CPU for 1080i or 1080p Mpeg2 content, only AVC or VC1 (Mpeg4) content required massive CPU power. Modern video cards handle Mpeg2 decoding in hardware, so CPU demands are very low, and hopefully when hardware decoding support for AVC and VC1 gets sorted out, fast CPU’s wont be needed for that either. Any current CPU will be fine for of air 1080 Mpeg2 HD recordings. You also don’t need 2Gig of RAM, 1Gig is plenty and even that will never be utilized for video. Having said that, I don’t believe in skimping on components for a HTPC intended for the best possible performance. Nothing worse then spending a significant amount of cash and finding it does not do what you want. The nVidia 8800 is a problem child due to driver issues, but nothing else you can buy will make the sort of difference to picture quality that the 8800 does. The 320Meg version is fine, you don’t need lots of video RAM for non gaming applications. I personally don’t like Media Centre type applications as they are inevitably compromised in functionality and performance. I also see no point in using Vista at this stage, it’s just not a mature platform yet.
AndrewWilliams Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 I personally don't like Media Centre type applications as they are inevitably compromised in functionality and performance. I would argue that functionality is increased by using MCE. Everything is integrated so there's very little that can go wrong. You can launch 3rd party programs very easily from MCE in the rare event that it can't do something and there's plugins for just about anything. In what way is performance compromised with MCE? All DirectShow filters work which means that you can do pretty much anything. If I'm missing out on something then I'd like to know! The only real arguments against MCE are: It's big, bad Microsoft. It's expensive. Um... I also see no point in using Vista at this stage, it’s just not a mature platform yet. Yes, I tried as hard as I could to set it up but I couldn't get anything that could be considered stable. The biggest problem was the nVidia drivers which even nVidia admit are a long way behind their XP drivers in terms of features and stability. Very few of the awesome XPMCE plugins work with Vista either. There's no compelling feature in Vista MCE to make putting up with the problems worthwhile.
ocujos Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 I am also interested in the possibility of having the HTPC set up in an office but with the ability to play SD and HD video files on the SXRD in another room. Possibly with a network video player. Pietro, Forget about network media players. If you plug one into your SXRD screen and play content from your HTPC, you'll loose lots of PQ that a good video card provides. I strongly recommend SilverStone cases as they are a specialist in this market. Having just installed a 500Gb WD SATA2 HDD (in addition to 320Gb WD IDE HDD) I can recommend it for HTPC application as it's almost inaudible (and that's with two HDD's) and it runs very cool! It's also about $35 cheaper than equivalent Seageate HDD. You may also consider 500Gb Samsung SATA2 which is even $10 cheaper than WD and just as quiet (if not quieter).
O-3 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 I've been battling with my HTPC for a while now so I'll add my 2 cents. Andrew....I'm almost up to the giggle stage too, save me a seat. Firstly you need to work out what you want out of your HTPC. Do you need DTV and SAT (Austar or Select only(Foxtel is not do-able with HTPC )) in the one box, or just DTV?? Depending on your answer to the above question will determine how much pain you will go through. I picked the painful way and tried various HTPC software which included a lot of time wasted on Vista MCE. Forget this if you want SAT, you need to many programs running in the background because VMCE does not support DVB-S cards, only DVB-T cards. Why the hell I don't know, Microsoft could really dominate if they supported Satellite PCI cards. After much stuffing around I stumbled upon Media Portal http://www.team-mediaportal.com/ I'm not there yet but very close. ATM I can fire it up, select the EPG which shows all the channel info from Austar and FTA a week in advance, scroll through it with the remote and select what I want it to record at the push of a button. That is pretty much what I was aiming for when I started building a HTPC so all is going good so far. I want to have hundreds of hours viewing and watch it when I want it(and FF the adds too ), not when they want to show it. Must admit, I am starting from scratch with my home theatre and want my HTPC to be the only source to the SXRD, my needs may be different from others. The good and the bad about Media Portal is that it is in development so there are alot of bugs but at the same time it is open source and there are a lot of very smart cookies working on the software, it really is amazing what can happen when ppl work together, there is a new build every day posted on the forums. Bottom Line- DTV/SAT=Media Portal. - DTV only=VMCE. VMCE is the pain free way to set up a DTV only HTPC and it really is slick in both function and looks. Regarding components, thats easy, buy the best you can afford. 1)Going by what Owen and Andrew have experienced the 8800 is definetly the best choice for a Video Card, I'll be upgrading my 7600 in the near future(hope it's worth it boys ) 2)At least 500 gigs of HD space (SATA) 3)2 gigs ram. One gig might be ok but if you get 2 you won't have to worry. 4)As far as I am aware intel have the best value for money CPU's out there ATM with the core 2 duo's. Buy the fastest one you can afford. 5)DVD drive(sata if poss) .....BR/HD-DVD in future? 6)Case. This one is important because most cases come with an IR receiver built into it, and remote. There are good IR receivers and bad, from my research IR-Trans is the best receiver, these are common to the Zalman HTPC cases, not sure which other cases have IR Trans? You can buy separate IR receivers that mount in a 3.5 inch bay though so keep that in mind. VFD displays are a waste of time, I cant see mine from where I sit! I can't see any advantage besides looks in the touch screen cases either. 7)power supply. Something nice and quiet with plenty of guts. 8) CPU cooler. The best and quietest air soultion I have found(tried a few) is the Thermaltake Big Typhoon, it may not fit in some cases though, check the dimensions, these really are great though. 9)DTV card. I use the same as Andrew (quattro-S) but this may be a bit of overkill if you don't stuff around with FTA Sat signals on occasion. There are other dual tuner cards without the SAT out there, Renura from Digital Now is the best to talk to about this. Or just search these(DTV) forums, also http://forums.dvbowners.com/index.php is another good spot. http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/index.php is also another great forum for HTPC stuff. 10) Soundcard. This one I have no experience with, ATM I'm just using the Spidf out on my Mobo. I need more research with this. 11) KB and Mouse. If its a dedicated HTPC only you might get away with only a remote after setting it up properly. I use a Logitech Dinovo Edge KB and a Logitech revolution mouse because I use my HTPC for the net aswell. I use the MCE remote that came with my case for HTPC use(works great). I had MAJOR dramas with reception using my old wireless KB+Mouse. I think maybe the SXRD interfere's with the signal ? Anyway, forget anything that runs @ 2400mhz......get something that is bluetooth to save all the hassles that I went through. Good luck!
O-3 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 My attempt at setting up a combined general purpose PC/HTPC have been less than sucessfull in terms of reliable HTPC operation, so I am considering a dedicated HTPC for my SXRD. I do however accept that I am still a relative novice at this kind of stuff so I have not given up.To that end I am interested in the recomendations of successful HTPC builders on the hardware and software that would best suit the Sony SXRD displays. I note that the Nvidia 8800 series of video cars are highly rated by some SXRD owners, so I suppose that is a start. For FTA viewing it would be interesting to know how much of an improvement in picture quality an HTPC can deliver over the Sony HD-STB hooked up to the SXRD. Doc, This is a tricky one because I'm still experimenting with codecs/settings etc on the HTPC but if I had to, I would say the DTV card is an improvement over the Sony STB. To be honest I am not really impressed with HD FTA on the SXRD anyway, particularly the grain. You have to weigh it up I spose , if using the STB you can use the TV to improve the image (over component), with the HTPC you can use the graphics card/codecs/software etc to improve the image. What were/are the specs of your current HTPC and what problems did you encounter?
O-3 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 I am also interested in the possibility of having the HTPC set up in an office but with the ability to play SD and HD video files on the SXRD in another room. Possibly with a network video player.Also I don't have the skills to build this beast so recommendations of reliable online suppliers/builders would also be helpful. Pietro, Firstly putting the hardware together for your HTPC is so easy, DO NOT think you can't do it. A monkey could do it! There are plenty of sites online that describe (with pics) how to piece it all together. The only thing you need to know is what parts are compatible with what. Regarding the Streaming server, Media Portal definetly does this (as Vista MCE does also I think?) Forget wireless though, network cable is a must. I can't comment on the PQ of the server yet(I haven't tried it), will do in a couple of weeks though.
O-3 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 Regarding Usenet, can one of you guys point me in the right direction? I pretty much use BT only, have never used Usenet. Cheers
sold Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 because VMCE does not support DVB-S cards, only DVB-T cards. Why the hell I don't know, Microsoft could really dominate if they supported Satellite PCI cards. I thought there was software out there that tricked MCE into seeing it as a DVB-T card (though not sure if the same exists for Vista). I don't think anyone offers them any more do they? There are a few truly unlimited plans that still exist such as the TPG's 1.5Mbit business plan. However the reason these still exist is that they are relatively expensive ($150/month for the TPG), not that well known and have a majority of users that don't come close to using the full potentional of their connection. Any mainstream, cheap unlimited plans are destined to fail as they cost more to provide than what they charge. All reputable ISPs have removed their unlimited home ADSL plans as it's not possible to make money on them. For an example of what happens when you base your ISP on unlimted plans (with a large dash of bad management thrown in for good measure) have a look at WildIT.
pietro1503559499 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 Regarding Usenet, can one of you guys point me in the right direction?I pretty much use BT only, have never used Usenet. Cheers Are you with Internode?
drsmith Posted April 6, 2007 Author Posted April 6, 2007 Doc, This is a tricky one because I'm still experimenting with codecs/settings etc on the HTPC but if I had to, I would say the DTV card is an improvement over the Sony STB. To be honest I am not really impressed with HD FTA on the SXRD anyway, particularly the grain. You have to weigh it up I spose , if using the STB you can use the TV to improve the image (over component), with the HTPC you can use the graphics card/codecs/software etc to improve the image. What were/are the specs of your current HTPC and what problems did you encounter? The specs of my PC are listed in my signature. One spec which I have not listed is the Power supply and it's the original 350 watt power supply that came with the case when I first purchased the PC. With all the hardware that's now in it I'm beginning to wonder whether it's sufficient. As a PC it generally works fine, but for HT, system stability is a big problem. I find that the most stable mode for video is to clone the SXRD with the Dell at 1920x1080, but this has the disadvantage of being limited to 60hz. A have not been able to match video quality from FTA with the STB. The tennis earlier in the year was revealing in this regard, in particular the white lines on the court.
IanD1503559705 Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 Regarding Usenet, can one of you guys point me in the right direction?I pretty much use BT only, have never used Usenet. In summary IIRC: Downloadable material is generally posted to the binary newsgroups on usenet. Files are generally split into chunks (often rar) and each chunk split into a number of encoded articles. You need a binary-capable newsreader client (eg Newsbin, Newsleecher, etc) to download the articles, combine them together and decode back to the rar chunks. Unfortunately, articles have a limited retention life depending on who caches them. The more expensive news servers have around 100 days retention for some binaries. As articles disappear from retention, the files they represent lose "completion" and can no longer be decoded back to the original rar chunks. To get around this, most binary news files have associated error recovery "par" files: if you have enough par files, you can repair the rar chunks, even if the articles are incomplete, but it depends on how many articles are missing. Locating the required articles is somewhat difficult, however there are free (eg binsearch.info) and paid (eg newzbin.com) indexing services that can create an nzb file of all the associated articles: the nzb file can then be used by some of the newsreader clients. Internode have a good built-in binary news server if you are with them. Otherwise you need to pay for a commercial news server with binary support (eg Giganews, Newshosting, Easynews). If you only require 20GB of usenet downloads/month, Easynews is good value for USD$10 as it includes a search engine and the ability to download decoded files directly (merged into zip archives if required). Newshosting is about the cheapest unlimited news server, but has some issues IME. Giganews is about the best unlimited with high retention, but is more expensive (USD$25/month).
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