Jakeyb77_Redux Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, Silver Audiophile said: Oh, Jakey boy et al... Kiat rips us Aussies off! Kiat runs an Australia only stellar promo run.. No excuses bro. Complain about the original retail price, complain he is running a special because he can't market enough units?? Do we all agree, Kiat can never win I’ve never said he rips anyone off. I did say they weren’t my thing and that I wish him well. I wish any Australian company well. You however stated that there is one price for some and another price for others. Not something that I would like to be spruiked should it be my business. I think it’s futile to compare as they are two different business models and two different products. I think to debase the old Duntech as you do goes against your previous comments regarding your own Marquis. It also goes against the evidence that many renowned studios used them and still do. I sincerely hope they decide to trade up to the new improved Sovereigns. You can’t debate with a full cup…… the Chinese were onto something when they said that. You Sir, have a full cup when it comes to Kiat and that’s fine. Your comments read like fake reviews left by the owner sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, Andythiing said: I have been lucky to meet kiat in person some years back now and spent a wonderful time touring his manufacturing facility and then a few hours listening session and chatting - and i had no money to spend - just wanted to see the Duntech set up - I dint think I’d even heard Duntech speakers before that visit - I’ve since owned a few pairs of older vintage duntechs - kiat has often provide me with help and guidance on repairs to my vintage duntech gear - and I’ve never spent a cent with him directly - my experience is he has a passion for audio - has years of commitment to the Australian industry with both Orpheus and now Duntech - perhaps @kelossus you could do kiat the courtesy of meeting him in person and understanding his approach before judging him - you do not appear to truly understand who you are talking about Thanks, Andy. I couldn't describe Kiat more accurately. He is a talented Audiophile and engineer. He has zero passion for anything other than making the best Duntech Audio speakers possible with expensive component costs. Marketing and business acumen etc not his strength. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 15 minutes ago, Silver Audiophile said: No, JD ran volumes and low production costs. The best of both Worlds from a business perspective. As Kiat said- a master marketer. Post a picture of the Sovereign crossovers. Lets see how much it costs from a parts perspective and labour (printing PCB). JD definitely did not have low production costs. He paid fair labour for everything and didn't outsource to China. The fact you can buy the Senator Sig for half price tells me all I need to know. It's actually ridiculous you would bring that as some sort of positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, Jakeyb77_Redux said: I think to debase the old Duntech as you do goes against your previous comments regarding your own Marquis. It also goes against the evidence that many renowned studios used them and still do. I sincerely hope they decide to trade up to the new improved Sovereigns. Just on my previous Marquis Verse the Senator. Duntech Marquis sounds good against the generic brand names out there. The Duntech Senator is on a completely different league. I lack the words in English to accurately describe the difference. When I first heard the Senators in the Sydney Duntech listen room, I was an instant convert to Kiat and what he has done with the brand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 5 minutes ago, kelossus said: JD definitely did not have low production costs. He paid fair labour for everything and didn't outsource to China. The fact you can buy the Senator Sig for half price tells me all I need to know. It's actually ridiculous you would bring that as some sort of positive. You keep harping on about China and one part of the speaker- the cabinet. You fail to understand, the Finnish birch in my Senators cost $1200 for 1.2x2.4m board. Not to mention the fine finish. You also fail to realise the manufactruing costs in China have soared x24 fold since the year 2000. China is only still the no 1 manufacturing location because of the sunk USD$45 trillion collectively Western Corps has sunk into China. Did the Sovereign ever use Finnish birch ply? No way The crossover parts on the bookshelf DSM-15 costs more than that Sovereigns crossover. That's everything I need to know as a consumer. Look at all the parts used in Senator. $16.5K. I know Kiat isn't making a killing. Edited March 14 by Silver Audiophile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 13 minutes ago, Andythiing said: I have been lucky to meet kiat in person some years back now and spent a wonderful time touring his manufacturing facility and then a few hours listening session and chatting - and i had no money to spend - just wanted to see the Duntech set up - I dint think I’d even heard Duntech speakers before that visit - I’ve since owned a few pairs of older vintage duntechs - kiat has often provide me with help and guidance on repairs to my vintage duntech gear - and I’ve never spent a cent with him directly - my experience is he has a passion for audio - has years of commitment to the Australian industry with both Orpheus and now Duntech - perhaps @kelossus you could do kiat the courtesy of meeting him in person and understanding his approach before judging him - you do not appear to truly understand who you are talking about I do respect Kiat and he is obviously very talented. I have heard the Senator Sigs and they are a great speaker no doubt. I don't need to meet him to understand his approach, it's clear as day in the speaker itself. All the fluff with the fancy parts is the complete opposite of Dunlavy's approach. You can either get a fantastic, well engineered, properly QA'd speaker for a fraction of the cost, or pay a premium for a significantly smaller speaker with better parts. There is no comparison between the two iterations of the company, none. Besides basic design principles in the speakers themselves the business' have two completely different approaches to serving the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeyb77_Redux Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 @Silver Audiophile I can see Kiat is reading the thread now, at least I know you may be two different people now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, kelossus said: I do respect Kiat and he is obviously very talented. I have heard the Senator Sigs and they are a great speaker no doubt. I don't need to meet him to understand his approach, it's clear as day in the speaker itself. All the fluff with the fancy parts is the complete opposite of Dunlavy's approach. You can either get a fantastic, well engineered, properly QA'd speaker for a fraction of the cost, or pay a premium for a significantly smaller speaker with better parts. There is no comparison between the two iterations of the company, none. Besides basic design principles in the speakers themselves the business' have two completely different approaches to serving the market. Good design is a given. Both are 'good' designed. Ultra high end parts is everything in a first order crossover design. It is worth spending $400 on a single cap in one crossover. Point to point copper rails, no PCB. Mundorf silver solder, Duelund graphite resistors.. uses them on your existing rigs. Discover the difference. Folks in the DIY community swear by them for good reason. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted March 14 Administrator Share Posted March 14 I'd like to ask people to pause and consider, before posting, please. It appears people are debating the person, and the character behind (today's) brand. Can we stick to the brand and its products more closely please, before an owner's thread goes right off the rails. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Marc said: I'd like to ask people to pause and consider, before posting, please. It appears people are debating the person, and the characted behind (today's) brand. Can we stick to the brand and its products more closely please, before an owner's thread goes right off the rails. After my initial posts I did make a conscious effort not to mention names and referred to the company itself. I'll bow out now and save myself any further embarrassment. It's not a good look though when the RRP on a product is 33k yet you can buy direct from the factory for half that. That is a kick in the teeth to the retailers. If Duntech were to openly deal factory direct for 16.5k I'd be out there beating the drum for their product as it is solid. I'm too old to be arguing on forums. I'm getting flashbacks to the Boost Cruising classifieds in my late teens. Edited March 14 by kelossus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 47 minutes ago, kelossus said: After my initial posts I did make a conscious effort not to mention names and referred to the company itself. I'll bow out now and save myself any further embarrassment. It's not a good look though when the RRP on a product is 33k yet you can buy direct from the factory for half that. That is a kick in the teeth to the retailers. If Duntech were to openly deal factory direct for 16.5k I'd be out there beating the drum for their product as it is solid. I have a pathological dislike for retailers and importer. Doubling the price at each step. I'm a factory direct only customer. I think of middle men in the same way as the tax office. Duntech's retail chains mark up is nothing compared to imported foreign brands. They see a quadrupling in prices from landed product to what customers actually finally pay. If I was a manufacturer, I'd only exclusively do factory direct! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted March 14 Administrator Share Posted March 14 9 minutes ago, Silver Audiophile said: They see a quadrupling in prices from landed product to what customers actually finally pay. Misinformation. Fact. Sorry! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted March 14 Administrator Share Posted March 14 1 hour ago, kelossus said: I'm too old to be arguing on forums. I'm getting flashbacks to the Boost Cruising classifieds in my late teens. You too? Did we argue there? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 23 minutes ago, Marc said: Misinformation. Fact. Sorry! Mark up varies wildly between importers. I've spoken to one of the importer (close friend). Not mentioning any brands. AU$75k to AU$275k retail. Nearly, quadrupling in that case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, kelossus said: If Duntech were to openly deal factory direct for 16.5k I'd be out there beating the drum for their product as it is solid. No deep dark conspiracy or secret. Was promoted for weeks on the Duntech Facebook page. My best friend got a pair of Senators Signatures back then. He sold off his Magico A5 for $25.5k and earlier sold his Gryphon Atlantis. Goes without saying, the Senators is orders of magnitude better sounding than both in everyway. Night and day, difference. Edited March 14 by Silver Audiophile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted March 14 Administrator Share Posted March 14 11 hours ago, Silver Audiophile said: Mark up varies wildly between importers. I've spoken to one of the importer (close friend). Not mentioning any brands. AU$75k to AU$275k retail. Nearly, quadrupling in that case. I'm afraid your close friend has fed you misinformation. It's grossly inaccurate, and potentially damaging to an industry. The margins are actually very similar across all the traditional distributor / retailer supply chains in Australia, which is the model we are referring to here. It's nothing like you suggest. There are exceptions, with what I like to call "wholetailers", where they import and sell at Retail with double margin. But even combined, those margins are similar to the importer > retailer model. Please stop spreading mistruths. This has nothing to do with Duntech speakers so I won't say any more in here. Happy to discuss further with you via PM if necessary. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzagruzz Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Had a listen to the Senator Signature today at Kiat’s listening room. A mightily impressive speaker with a lovely detailed presentation. I’ve always loved a two way speaker, more so than a full range speaker which is what I have now. Great imaging and that revelator tweeter renders female vocals beautifully. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 On 14/03/2024 at 10:10 PM, Silver Audiophile said: Mark up varies wildly between importers. I've spoken to one of the importer (close friend). Not mentioning any brands. AU$75k to AU$275k retail. Nearly, quadrupling in that case. Maybe for 'White Van' speakers, but not for any major (or minor) brands. Business is tough and manufacturers (and retailers) simply don't make anywhere near that much markup on speakers or electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frednork Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 these popped up on my FB feed 24w75's in Melbs for someone to keep as spares maybe , https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/932948998507668/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeyb77_Redux Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 13 minutes ago, frednork said: these popped up on my FB feed 24w75's in Melbs for someone to keep as spares maybe , https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/932948998507668/ Yes nearly snapped them up but realised they’re 8ohm versions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frednork Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Shouldve known you'd be all over it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeyb77_Redux Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 9 minutes ago, frednork said: Shouldve known you'd be all over it I have many alerts set. But I’m all good for spares now. I have at least one of each piece now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenner Posted Wednesday at 03:19 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:19 PM (edited) The eagle eyed among members will realise that this is not a standard pair of Duntech Senators. These are in fact a very early testing prototype that were never finished and not intended for sale. However, during a visit to his workshop to purchase some parts for my now ageing PCL25s, I managed to convince Kiat to drag them out and bring them up to spec, which he did over the course of some weeks. You will notice the main differences are the stripes in the timber veneer and the piano black cap. I'm not certain of other differences. Kiat assembled some crossovers for them and being the perfectionist he is, managed to finesse them into the beautiful objects they are now. By my astounding powers of persuasion I managed to hypnotise Kiat into selling them to me for a discount. I then whisked them away in my old Falcon Ute to their current abode in the equally stunning Blue Mountains. At 54 kilos each my housemate and I are currently in traction after breaking our backs getting them into the house ...not really but it feels like it! As you can see, the speakers are located near large windows and French window/door thingies so I need to protect them from the afternoon sun. Kiat suggested (and I agree) I should get some 'speaker condoms' made up to slip on them when not in use. For those interested this pair will be powered by my vintage Luxman L-430 integrated Amp and music will be supplied by an Arcam CD player and other devices yet to be purchased. As for my trusty PCL25s, I hope to give them a new lease on life in the near future, with new external crossovers, new tweeters (if I can find some with the same parameters) and possibly a piano black finish ...or not. Beware the floor spikes!!! As Edited Wednesday at 03:29 PM by Peter Jenner 5 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chemout2 Posted Wednesday at 08:58 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 08:58 PM Gorgeous speakers and well done on your purchase. I'm thrilled with my pair of duntech senators. Definitely a speaker worthy of building a system around 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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