A victimless crime?

[LogicprObe]

check this if unsure

http://www.aria.com.au/pages/faq.htm

 

but lets not go down that rabbit hole, as I mentioend this thread is talkng about illegal down loads

 

I said 'were'............so it was an unfair comparison.

[betty boop]

A few have mentioned not being able to download movies here in Oz.  Codswallop.

 

I've purchased Game of Thrones Season 4, episodes 8,9,10 for $3.49 Aus on itunes.  Also bought Johhny Depp's new movie Transcendance on iTunes.

 

re physical media - a hard drive or solid state drive is as physical as a dvd or bluray, does one need a piece of paper and a plastic box to appreciate a movie, I think not.

 

begs the question why the need to illegally down in that case ? I guess some people dont want to pay the $3.49 on itunes.

[zog]

Anti-Piracy Group Caught Pirating Song For Anti-Piracy Ad... Corruption Scandal Erupts In Response

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111201/17275016947/anti-piracy-group-caught-pirating-song-anti-piracy-ad-corruption-scandal-erupts-response.shtml

French Anti-Piracy Organisation Hadopi Uses Pirated Font In Own Logo

http://fontfeed.com/archives/french-anti-piracy-organisation-uses-pirated-font-in-ownlogo/

[wolster]

Anti-Piracy Group Caught Pirating Song For Anti-Piracy Ad... Corruption Scandal Erupts In Response

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111201/17275016947/anti-piracy-group-caught-pirating-song-anti-piracy-ad-corruption-scandal-erupts-response.shtml

French Anti-Piracy Organisation Hadopi Uses Pirated Font In Own Logo

http://fontfeed.com/archives/french-anti-piracy-organisation-uses-pirated-font-in-ownlogo/

 

Ironic but doesn't change a thing.

[Chopsus Maximus]

check this if unsure

http://www.aria.com.au/pages/faq.htm

but lets not go down that rabbit hole, as I mentioend this thread is talkng about illegal down loads

From the link:

"Under legislation passed in late 2006, you now have the right to make a copy of a legitimately purchased recording that you own (eg, a CD or digital file) for playing on different devices for your private and domestic use. "

Before 2006 anyone who did was a Pirate under the law.

As I said, the law eventually reflects was is happening in society. "Fair Use" law in the USA allows for limited downloading for trail purposes with destruction required if not purchased ... That it their way of dealing with it. Criminalising all those in Australia currently engaging in the behaviour is not a realistic, nor practical solution and will likely cost more to implement than will ever be gained from it ... Unless they can get someone else to pay for it, like tax payers or ISPs.

limiting the discussion to movies, only, serves no real purpose as the law applies universally and I really don't believe the government should be making special provisions for Mel Gibsons mates.

Q. If I own the DVD of a movie and want to watch it on my tablet/iPad, and can't be arsed to rip and encode it , am I a pirate for downloading a file that is already suitable for my purpose?

Edited August 30, 2014 by Chopsus Maximus

[peacewise]

begs the question why the need to illegally down in that case ? I guess some people dont want to pay the $3.49 on itunes.

For me it was simply not knowing that iTunes provided that service.

[LogicprObe]

What sort of quality is it........................and do you own it?

I don't think so.

[rocky500]

To me it seems antipriacy is for the rich to get richer and the poor to miss out on enjoyment.

I know there is a lot in between but some of the figures in the money they make these days is obscene.

If only the greedy captilists would reward the actual artists a bit more than their own pockets.

The whole industry is teaming with sharks.

 

I am pretty sure if you ask the Artists what they think of these Corporations and there contracts and what sort of money they would get extra if there was less pirating would be pretty much zilch. I am sure the companies would find a way to line their own pockets just that bit more. This is where there needs to be a big overhaul and then most probably the prices would be super resonable and pirating would drop considerably.

Its not the pirating hurting artists its more like the bottom line of the corporations.

 

I have downloaded heaps of new music to try out. Some of it I find pretty poor but the stuff I do like and will listen to it more, I normally purchase it.

With out the downloads and a good listen, I think I would not of actually ever purchased it.

Edited August 30, 2014 by rocky500

[wolster]

From the link:

"Under legislation passed in late 2006, you now have the right to make a copy of a legitimately purchased recording that you own (eg, a CD or digital file) for playing on different devices for your private and domestic use. "

Before 2006 anyone who did was a Pirate under the law.

As I said, the law eventually reflects was is happening in society. "Fair Use" law in the USA allows for limited downloading for trail purposes with destruction required if not purchased ... That it their way of dealing with it. Criminalising all those in Australia currently engaging in the behaviour is not a realistic, nor practical solution and will likely cost more to implement than will ever be gained from it ... Unless they can get someone else to pay for it, like tax payers or ISPs.

limiting the discussion to movies only serves no real purpose as the law applies universally and I really don't believe the government should be making special provisions for Mel Gibsons mates.

Q. If I own the DVD of a movie and want to watch it on my tablet/iPad, and can't be arsed to rip and encode it , am I a pirate for downloading a file that is already suitable for my purpose?

 

As you say, the law, as is current, makes unpaid downloading illegal. Simple.

And the answer to your question is 'Yes'.

[Chopsus Maximus]

As you say, the law, as is current, makes unpaid downloading illegal. Simple.

And the answer to your question is 'Yes'.

So it would seem ... However the law is practically unenforceable without the cooperation and resources of both ISPs and Local enforcement.

[TMM]

Why don't authorities concentrate on closing down Torrent sites?

They do. Unfortunately for them it's not very effective because it takes them months and $$$$ in legal costs to get the job done, only for 10 new sites to pop up in the place of the one that they took down.

[LogicprObe]

They can move to another server, in another country pretty quick via redundancy.

[Chopsus Maximus]

The real problem is that something being illegal does not stop people from doing it and it is clear that when it comes to "illegal" downloading (among many other illegal activities) the law alone is not making one iota of difference.

Just reflecting back to the OP, it was mentioned that Piracy was the reason behind the lack of investment in Australian Films ... I would wonder if this too is an exaggeration and posit that the removal of very favourable tax benefits (wasn't it 150% deductibility at one point?) have also contributed to the decline.

[Saxon Hall]

The real problem is that something being illegal does not stop people from doing it and it is clear that when it comes to "illegal" downloading (among many other illegal activities) the law alone is not making one iota of difference.

Just reflecting back to the OP, it was mentioned that Piracy was the reason behind the lack of investment in Australian Films ... I would wonder if this too is an exaggeration and posit that the removal of very favourable tax benefits (wasn't it 150% deductibility at one point?) have also contributed to the decline.

The 150% tax deductibility was during the high point of the "10BA" era. At that time I was a member of the AFI which meant I was able to view Australian movies long before they were released as part of the AFI awards judging process. Some of the movies I had to sit through were so atrocious that a goodly amount of them were never even released. It is my contention that many of these films were never even meant to be released as the only reason they were ever made was purely to claim the tax benefit.

http://www.screenaustralia.gov.au/research/statistics/archtax10ba.aspx

 

[ThirdDrawerDown]

 

online piracy.

 

I abhor the pirates - those people who download or copy stuff for financial gain.

 

I judge people by what they do, not what they say.  Western law regards corporations as persons, with this in mind, let's consider how they treat copyright.

 

Well, wikileaks revealed papers that showed the big players in Hollywood were paying Australian lobbyists to change Australian copyright law in favour of the Hollywood corporates.  This was successful, take a look at the sovereignty Australia has relinquished under its free trade agreements with the USA.

 

So we conclude that copyright is something treasured by Hollywood.

 

Now we turn to one of Australia's most famous copyright cases, the song Down Under and the songwriters' plagiarism of the song Kookaburra.  You will recall that the case became public in 2008 and in October 2011 all the appeals on the case were closed.  The finding was that Men At Work's songwriters had plagiarised Kookaburra and therefore money was owed to Larrakin Music, no ifs buts or maybes. In March 2012 one of Down Under's two songwriters killed himself, as a result of the court case.

 

So that's the context.  Copyright is so important here that a person has died over it.  No doubt you would expect that the person responsible for paying money to the claimants would treat the matter very seriously indeed.

 

The publishing rights for Men At Work's output are owned by Sony.  To the best of my knowledge they have not yet paid Larrikin Music.  (I stand to be corrected).

 

This is notwithstanding that a person has died over this matter, and irrespective of Sony's very public anti-piracy statements. They are still holding onto the money.

 

What does this say about Sony's true regard for the concept of copyright?

 

In these circumstances I find it very hard to be swayed to Sony and their ilk's corporate line that downloading is equivalent to piracy and piracy is killing the music.  Copyright appears to be an issue of corporate convenience.  It's all about using copyright to create a monopoly and to gouge anyone who has a dollar in their pocket.

 

 

 

And if it were true, this 1970's campaign would have it that music was dead by now.

[davewantsmoore]

Why don't authorities concentrate on closing down Torrent sites?

 

Torrent sites make bittorrent convenient.    They are not essential.    Also the technology exists to make websites which cannot be "shut down".

 

Unless the rights holders make a product which cannot be "stolen", then it will be.

[Chopsus Maximus]

Torrent sites make bittorrent convenient.    They are not essential.    Also the technology exists to make websites which cannot be "shut down".

 

Unless the rights holders make a product which cannot be "stolen", then it will be.

And sadly such measures end up frustrating those who pay for it ...

[Mining Man]

OK ... Then there is no discussion here as you won't tolerate any counter opinions.

Opinions on what?

I'm stating a fact based in law. It's not an opinion.

I have no issue with any discussion on the sensibility of the law, in and of itself. But when it's used as a lever to rationalise illegal behaviour and seek community approval, then you can count on my calling of "bullshit". It's cowardly, and wrong.

I don't knowingly speed on a deserted open road, and argue it's okay because everyone does it and it makes sense to me. I run the risk, and pay the penalty if I'm caught.

[Chopsus Maximus]

Opinions on what?

I'm stating a fact based in law. It's not an opinion.

I have no issue with any discussion on the sensibility of the law, in and of itself. But when it's used as a lever to rationalise illegal behaviour and seek community approval, then you can count on my calling of "bullshit". It's cowardly, and wrong.

I don't knowingly speed on a deserted open road, and argue it's okay because everyone does it and it makes sense to me. I run the risk, and pay the penalty if I'm caught.

That's your prerogative MM, but it is not a realistic perspective and does little to fix the problem that the OP started with.

How would you propose to stop copyright theft?

[Gee Emm]

OTOH

People who pirate stuff, make it more expensive for me when I buy legit stuff.

Stop it!!!

[leewood]

Lots of different opinions on the subject here

 

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/telcos-back-internet-piracy-crackdown-20140830-10a8i9.html

[Chopsus Maximus]

OTOH

People who pirate stuff, make it more expensive for me when I buy legit stuff.

Stop it!!!

To be clear, I am not advocating or supporting piracy here at all.

I am pretty sure that retail prices of both movies and music has dropped substantially in the wake of increased piracy, not increased.

[awty]

Our local cinema dropped the ticket prices to about $12 a head for any movie. Since they did that its gone from being a ghost town to being busy all the time.

 

We (wife and kids do, I hardly watch anything ) still rent from the local video store (last one standing) as it works out just as economical as to down load them and no subscription.

 

There might be still pirating going on, but thats mostly for stuff we wouldnt normally be bother seeing or stuff that requires a subscription, which we would simply not have if there were no alternative.

 

Make it affordable and pirating wouldnt be a problem.

Edited August 31, 2014 by awty

[TP1]

Why don't authorities concentrate on closing down Torrent sites?

Because many computer audio blokes would have nothing to listen to.

[ThirdDrawerDown]

 

People who pirate stuff, make it more expensive for me when I buy legit stuff.

 

I assume you mean 'people who download stuff'. 

 

But let me take your comment at face value, and that you are talking about pirates, as follows:

 

Pirated CDs such as Bob Dylan recording studio outakes and so on, all seem to sell at about $40 per disc.  Even in that situation a dilemma arises, as without those pirates, whom I assume regard themselves as entrepreneurs, we would never have had Dylan's Great White Wonder or the Sea of Tunes Beach Boys material or the Beatles alternates and outtakes, all of which (finally, kicking and screaming) resulted in the record companies releasing box sets such as the Beatles Anthology series, the Pet Sounds pack, and the double album of The Basement Tapes and (from the 1990's) the Dylan Bootleg Series, now up to eleven releases and counting.

 

These box sets and rarities all have one thing in common - they are rather expensive.

 

So yes, pirates do lead to expensive music.  But at face value it appears that without the pirates the music would never be released for you to buy in the first place. 

 

Rather than appealing for pirates to stop, maybe you should express your gratitude that their efforts are a key part of the chain of causation that has led to these gems seeing the light of day.