A victimless crime?

[wolster]

On Friday, I heard a very interesting interview with veteran Australian film director, Bruce Beresford on the ABC.

He was discussing the current state of the Australian film industry and expressed his concern that the biggest issue facing the industry is not lack of scripts or talent but lack of financial backing for new movies.

The reason for this is not lack of funds to invest but the increasing problem of online illegal downloading of movies. Companies are just not willing to invest in movies that may not make profits as a results of online piracy.

 

This, of course results in less movies being made and, consequently, less employment for talented actors, directors, editors, cinematographers etc. We have highly talented youngsters graduating from performing art colleges around Australia who will struggle to get work as a result of their 'mates' frequenting torrent sites and downloading any movie or TV show they may want to watch. Hence the title of this thread.

I guess the problem also applies to the music industry to some extent.

 

So what is the answer? Is it better education, serious penalties for online piracy? 

 

What do members think? Any suggestions to solve this problem?

 

 

[zog]

get independently verified numbers first - lots of these claims from the movie/music industry have been found to be based on vastly exaggerated, or just plain wrong numbers when held up to any independent scrutiny.

[Guest Muon]

They also count all the folk that download.... that would never purchase anyway, regardless, and that alone inflates the numbers, big time!

 

The real loses are much much smaller.

[peacewise]

I wonder how much profit is enough.

1000% or more I reckon they make.

Seems that decent movies cover the cost of production in the first week of release... After that it's a gravy train.

Nobody likes losing a gravy train revenue stream.

[LogicprObe]

Yes................'investing' in the yarts has always been a gamble.

I don't think it's any different these days.

[mondie]

I wonder how much profit is enough.

1000% or more I reckon they make.

Seems that decent movies cover the cost of production in the first week of release... After that it's a gravy train.

Nobody likes losing a gravy train revenue stream.

 

Yeah I am sure some do, and on others they loose squillions. Its a high risk/reward industry which leads to conservative movie choices and an industry that is slow to react to rapid changes in its markets..

 

Here's an over reaction from the UK. An incredibly dumb thing to do and the is OTT for the crime but this was obviously a harsh penalty to send a message.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28896675

[Addicted to music]

Walked into the mega JB store in Altona of Miilers Road on Sunday and flicked through the movie section. breakfast at Tifiny was $15. A few month back it was priced as buy 2 for $20 with a 10% discount on it!

Went to Crown to see a movie with better 1/2 @ around $20pp. The SQ was crap and horrible and they call this masterered surround sound. I was better serviced at home with my cheap Yamaha 5.1 that my son bought me for Xmas infront of my Samsung 55 LED!

If the entertainment industry was fair dinkum in combating piracy, they should provide a product this is priced to make piracy worthless that better serviced the clientele when they take the time out. Because not only you are enjoying a night out, you are also dining out!

It goes also with the music industry, provide a HQ music file on a decent media instead of some fragile outdated physical media such as the CD and you make it affordable, and it will make it worthwhile to purchase the genuine article.

Edited August 25, 2014 by pchan

[Catostylus]

Yes................'investing' in the yarts has always been a gamble.

I don't think it's any different these days.

 

Hmmm.  Wouldn't happen to have a really, really bad script handy, would ya?

[henry218]

i believe its a little bit unfair to compare hollywood productions to australian movie productions in terms of their "losses", but on the other hand, it is unfair to expect australian movie industry comes up with economic potential as hollywood's production does.

 

i think something missing in the story, have a look at china, the illegal download numbers is prob at higher ratio than most countries if not the most, as they have the highest population and pretty decent computers number ratio vs household number. But their movie productions is as high as ever, and more and more expensive movies are made there than ever before, in short the industry is growing. 

[sir sanders zingmore]

HBO, Netflix

Provide quality, provide it in a format that people want. They will come.

I think there was a thread related to this a few weeks ago.

[wolster]

i believe its a little bit unfair to compare hollywood productions to australian movie productions in terms of their "losses", but on the other hand, it is unfair to expect australian movie industry comes up with economic potential as hollywood's production does.

 

i think something missing in the story, have a look at china, the illegal download numbers is prob at higher ratio than most countries if not the most, as they have the highest population and pretty decent computers number ratio vs household number. But their movie productions is as high as ever, and more and more expensive movies are made there than ever before, in short the industry is growing. 

 

Interesting re China. Apparently South Korea were one of the first countries to get high speed broadband and there followed a big surge in illegal downloads. They pulled it right back with a massive education programme.

That's what would be good here. People need to know that picking up a movie in JBs and walking out with it without paying is no different than downloading through a torrent server.

[Chopsus Maximus]

IIRC the very first "movie" ever made (man in the moon) was pirated by an American who made a fortune from showing it all across America.

Content creators are required under copyright law to protect their own work, they should not be expecting governments, the community or other businesses to do this for them (for free no less).

Edited August 25, 2014 by Chopsus Maximus

[Gee Emm]

HBO, Netflix

Provide quality, provide it in a format that people want. They will come.

I think there was a thread related to this a few weeks ago.

 

Here

 

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/69078-the-audio-industry-shouldpay-attention-to-what-the-tv-industry-has-been-doing/

[wolster]

IIRC the very first "movie" ever made (man in the moon) was pirated by an American who made a fortune from showing it all across America.

Content creators are required under copyright law to protect their own work, they should not be expecting governments, the community or other businesses to to this for them (for free no less).

 

Not sure of your point. Are you endorsing download theft?

[henry218]

People need to know that picking up a movie in JBs and walking out with it without paying is no different than downloading through a torrent server.

 

i think thats a crime.

 

on the other hand illegal downloads are copyright infringement to it's owner.

 

and to support @@zog opinion, yes the numbers are inflated and the method of product distribution on movies are changing just like @@Sir Sanders Zingmore said, so its unfair to use box office records "slump" to assume that the whole industry is declining.

[henry218]

Not sure of your point. Are you endorsing download theft?

 

illegal downloads are not theft, at least until now that is

[wolster]

illegal downloads are not theft, at least until now that is

 

Not sure there is a difference. It you take something without paying the copyright holders then....

[blybo]

I wonder how much profit is enough.

1000% or more I reckon they make.

Seems that decent movies cover the cost of production in the first week of release... After that it's a gravy train.

Nobody likes losing a gravy train revenue stream.

 

Plenty go straight to video too and never make it to the cinemas. There are (or at least "were") sliding scale deals with the production companies as to how much % of takings is returned to the production companies. First weeks it might be something like 85% of takings go to the production companies, then 50% second week, 25% 3rd week etc and perhaps down to 10% for any weeks beyond week 4. Hence, the longer a movie runs, the more the cinemas make, not the production company.

[Chopsus Maximus]

Not sure of your point. Are you endorsing download theft?

 

I don't see where I "endorsed" theft:

 

IIRC the very first "movie" ever made (man in the moon) was pirated by an American who made a fortune from showing it all across America.

Content creators are required under copyright law to protect their own work, they should not be expecting governments, the community or other businesses to do this for them (for free no less).

 

My point was that copyright holders need to take steps to secure their own property, just as every other individual does ... the current push from the big studios is that it is the Governments responsibility to write a law to make it another businesses responsibility (ISPs) to police and secure their property.

 

Apparently these same conglomerates actually own large proportions of the companies that house and store the pirated material (ie: the Usenet Service Providers) yet they are not making serious attempts to get them to do their policing for them.

 

At the end of the day the Law is in place for them to use and copyright infringement has generally been pursued via civil means ... I really don't think it is reasonable for a Multi-Billion Dollar industry to require government to provide a customised service at the tax payers (and another industry's') expense ... especially considering the current Government's Budget problems.

[sir sanders zingmore]

Here

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/69078-the-audio-industry-shouldpay-attention-to-what-the-tv-industry-has-been-doing/

That's the one. Great article

[blybo]

Walked into the mega JB store in Altona of Miilers Road on Sunday and flicked through the movie section. breakfast at Tifiny was $15. A few month back it was priced as buy 2 for $20 with a 10% discount on it!

Went to Crown to see a movie with better 1/2 @ around $20pp. The SQ was crap and horrible and they call this masterered surround sound. I was better serviced at home with my cheap Yamaha 5.1 that my son bought me for Xmas infront of my Samsung 55 LED!

If the entertainment industry was fair dinkum in combating piracy, they should provide a product this is priced to make piracy worthless that better serviced the clientele when they take the time out. Because not only you are enjoying a night out, you are also dining out!

It goes also with the music industry, provide a HQ music file on a decent media instead of some fragile outdated physical media such as the CD and you make it affordable, and it will make it worthwhile to purchase the genuine article.

 

So JB shouldn't be able to discount 1 week and not the next?

 

Who exactly are you blaming? 90% of the population couldn't care less about sound quality, as long there is heaps of bass and a huge screen they are happy. The general population aren't fussed about HD, 4K Dolby Atmos etc. It seems you are asking the "entertainment industry" to invest heavily in better hardware and software, and then on sell the improved product for less.

 

If the current economic downturn has taught ups anything, it's that high volume/low margin models don't work very well. Yes there will be exceptions, but virtually every major retailer that has gone bust in recent years has followed that model.

 

Why does Joe public seem to think that they should be able to get better and better product for less money? That can only end in the industry eventually imploding. It seems the warning signs are starting to be seen already.

[wolster]

I don't see where I "endorsed" theft:

 

 

My point was that copyright holders need to take steps to secure their own property, just as every other individual does ... the current push from the big studios is that it is the Governments responsibility to write a law to make it another businesses responsibility (ISPs) to police and secure their property.

 

 

 

Seems like blaming a victim of theft for not having a burglar alarm. No thought on the act of the burglar?

[RockandorRoll]

Did anyone see 100 Bloody Acres ? Great Aussie movie, filmed in the Adelaide Hills as well. I recall reading that it was the most downloaded Aussie movie of all time.

 

So I'm thinking that the quality of the movie is good but wheres the distribution? I went to the movies Sat night and paid $23 to see Guardians of the Galaxy. $23 to sit there and listen to snot nosed kids on first dates eating their pop corn and talking ****. with terrible sound, i think they had the rear channels back to front as it sounded terrible.

 

Either way, if i was hesitant to pay $23 to see a major hollywood blockbuster, im not going to pay that to see an Aussie independent.

 

No one buys DVDs anymore and no one rents the movies from Blockbuster.

 

So where can i see 100 Bloody Acres?

 

I caught it on Foxtel as part of my subscription 6-12 months after its release. I'm sure the studio got a huge cut from Foxtel

[henry218]

Not sure there is a difference. It you take something without paying the copyright holders then....

there is in terms of responsibility for the government to step in and act. Copyright infringements is more towards personal nuisance with economic value attached than society violation classified as a crime, so in my view it is a HUGE different.

[blybo]

Did anyone see 100 Bloody Acres ? Great Aussie movie, filmed in the Adelaide Hills as well. I recall reading that it was the most downloaded Aussie movie of all time.

 

So I'm thinking that the quality of the movie is good but wheres the distribution? I went to the movies Sat night and paid $23 to see Guardians of the Galaxy. $23 to sit there and listen to snot nosed kids on first dates eating their pop corn and talking ****. with terrible sound, i think they had the rear channels back to front as it sounded terrible.

 

Either way, if i was hesitant to pay $23 to see a major hollywood blockbuster, im not going to pay that to see an Aussie independent.

 

No one buys DVDs anymore and no one rents the movies from Blockbuster.

 

So where can i see 100 Bloody Acres?

 

I caught it on Foxtel as part of my subscription 6-12 months after its release. I'm sure the studio got a huge cut from Foxtel

 

Not exactly the "most" downloaded. http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/100-bloody-acres-one-of-the-most-illegally-downloaded-films-20131106-2x11q.html . Oh yeah, you left out the word illegally before downloaded. The DVD was released on December 11th last year according to the article.

 

I love the way people blame the distribution model we have for "forcing" them to down load illegally. What a crock. Admittedly I find the delay in stuff becoming available frustrating at times, but I'm not going to break the law and deny the producers of income by using torrents.