Musical Reciever for around $4k

[genkifd]

My old long loved Denon 3808A just died so i need a replacement / upgrade especially in the music department.

 

The reason why i still require a reciever, is for its functions. basically all my devices will be connected directly to this unit (PS4, Oppo 105, Media Centre, etc).

 

My criteriors:

 

1. 4k pass through.

2. XT32

3. Musical hopefully big step above the Denon.

4. Minimum 4 HDMI inputs and 1 output.

5. budget around $4k happy to spend a little more.

6. good FW support.

7. minimum 7.1 channels.

8. Happy to consider a used unit as long as the unit isnt too old. New is good too.

9. 7.1 Analogue inputs.

10. Capable of being used as a preamp.

11. Love to get separates (pre and power amp), but my budget i believe wont allow me.

 

May look in the direction of Anthem 710? Marantz? Denon 4520 (dont believe its out yet), Arcam 750 (no 4k pass through & heard bad FW support), Primare SPA23 (too expensive unless used and no 4k pass through, good this its upgradable to 4k in the future).

 

Thanks in advice for your suggestions.

[blybo]

Why not ~2k on AVR and ~2k on integrated with HT bypass?

Or pre/pro & power. Can the 105 be used as a preamp for other inputs? Not sure regarding a HT bypass function though. If you wanted a dedicated CD player a Audiolab 8200CDQ makes a lot of sense with on board analogue and digital inputs for the dac and preamp with bypass functions. If I was to upgrade my HT systems 2ch capabilities, I'd do it via a CDQ.

A used 4311 + a used Elektra Theatron should be obtainable for 3k. Then you just need a bypass 2ch pre. The 8200CDQ could probably be had for around $1600 so not too much above your budget and best of both worlds.

I wouldn't personally worry about 4k until your next AVR upgrade.

Edited March 17, 2014 by blybo

[oldrose]

OK, experience tells me that a good AVR <> decent HiFi so I agree with blybo that you'd be better off looking for a good Amp with HT bypass and getting one of the cheaper Denons for HT use if you must have surround sound.

Alternatively spend more $$$ on the amp and get a simple HDMI switcher and live with Stereo for Movies.

Better yet but not always practical, have 2 different systems.

[blybo]

Well having said all that I did convince my parents to buy a Arcam AVR360 and Oppo 103 into Whatmough Performance series stand mounts, centre and the little Synergy 3 sub as it matched the Graphite finish of the front stage. They had to go in ceiling effects and only 5.1 but boy oh boy did the combo put out a lovely sound via the analogue outs and it was analogue so no sub.

Unfortunately the Arcams video board was DOA so we are currently awaiting a replacement before I go over and do room set up etc.

[aasza]

The Denon AVR-4520 is available, a store on eBay has them on special for $2885

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DENON-AVR-4520-9-2-CH-NETWORK-3D-1080P-4K-HDMI-HOME-THEATRE-RECEIVER-AVR4520-/170985259217?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

[betty boop]

4520 been available a while.

Good luck re 4k support. The 4k disc format not even been set yet.

Get something now, don't worry about 4k

[genkifd]

Why not ~2k on AVR and ~2k on integrated with HT bypass?

 

no reason why not - just wanted to keep the system simple - 2 on the avr is ok but 2k on the integrated is little on the light side imo as this may not do music much justice especially when i  will eventually upgrade my speakers.

Or pre/pro & power. Can the 105 be used as a preamp for other inputs? Not sure regarding a HT bypass function though. If you wanted a dedicated CD player a Audiolab 8200CDQ makes a lot of sense with on board analogue and digital inputs for the dac and preamp with bypass functions. If I was to upgrade my HT systems 2ch capabilities, I'd do it via a CDQ.

 

The Oppo 105 doesnt have enough hdmi inputs (1 only)

A used 4311 + a used Elektra Theatron should be obtainable for 3k. Then you just need a bypass 2ch pre. The 8200CDQ could probably be had for around $1600 so not too much above your budget and best of both worlds.

I wouldn't personally worry about 4k until your next AVR upgrade.

 

Take that into consideration - that is why Primare SPA23 is looking better. its apparently great for music and pretty good for home theatre.

[genkifd]

OK, experience tells me that a good AVR <> decent HiFi so I agree with blybo that you'd be better off looking for a good Amp with HT bypass and getting one of the cheaper Denons for HT use if you must have surround sound. Alternatively spend more $$$ on the amp and get a simple HDMI switcher and live with Stereo for Movies. Better yet but not always practical, have 2 different systems.

 

Stereo for movies is not an option - as stereo fro movies just sux.

[Kaynin]

http://nadelectronics.com/products/av-receivers/T-787-A/V-Surround-Sound-Receiver

 

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/nad-t-787-av-receiver
 

 

Here's another option and should tick the majority of your list, and be able to pick up brand new for around the $3k mark (I paid $3250 18 months ago).  Two toroidal transformers, one to run the fronts and the other for the remaining channels.  They lean towards a music first principal, so should be a big step up on your Denon.  Stacks of headroom and power, easy to set-up, after market care has been excellent (touch wood).

[blybo]

http://nadelectronics.com/products/av-receivers/T-787-A/V-Surround-Sound-Receiver

 

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/nad-t-787-av-receiver

 

 

Here's another option and should tick the majority of your list, and be able to pick up brand new for around the $3k mark (I paid $3250 18 months ago).  Two toroidal transformers, one to run the fronts and the other for the remaining channels.  They lean towards a music first principal, so should be a big step up on your Denon.  Stacks of headroom and power, easy to set-up, after market care has been excellent (touch wood).

Doesn't have Audessey XT32. I'm sure it's bloody great sounding AVR though.

[Kaynin]

Which is why I mentioned should tick the majority of the list     Does have MultEQ XT though.

[betty boop]

Is 2ch music really a priority or really is this ht focused ?

[genkifd]

Music and HT is 60/40 so both are important but im leaning more towards music.

[betty boop]

To get a receiver that does music and 2ch particularly will cost you and then will sacrifice some aspects of hometheatre eg in processing eq etc. The benefits of something like audyssey are not to be underestimated.

Can go a $2 k 2ch amp with ht bypass and a $2 k avr . Will cover things 2ch wise but will likely rob a bit on ht side. But many good options here can look at.

Otherwise yeah a $4k avr will buy a very decent piece from arcam, Cambridge, rotel , nad, primare etc... won't be the last word in home theatre or 2ch but don't get me wrong am sure in end result something many many people will be most pleased with and something be quite proud off as centre piece

Get out and check out some options. Best way to understand what can get for your money

[genkifd]

yeap thats the plan. Visit some local melbourne audio stores and see what they can offer especially thoses who stock Primare, Arcam and Anthem.

[betty boop]

I wouldn't rule out nad rotel and Cambridge all sold by Melbourne retailers and have a strong reputation of receivers that are quite good with regards music.

There is a sna member with anthem receiver but had lot if troubles with it going back and forth. Check the showcase forum, was a bedroom/computer room setup was using in maybe can get some feedback as an owner of one of anthem receiver

[genkifd]

Happened to be in Prahran today, so i decided to make a  visit to Klapp audio. very helpful guys especially the owner.

 

Well tested the Denon X4000, Marantz 7008, Cambridge Audio 751R and the Arcam 450 with their JBL speaker which i wasnt familiar with.

 

First Denon and Marantz sounded very similar (not suprising) could barely pick them apart. then Arcam - big difference, the sound was much fuller and bigger frequency response range. Then Cambridge - very nice with slightly better detail than the Arcam.

 

But still none of these had the bass punch i was looking for but the Arcam and Cambridge is definite upgrade from the my old denon. 

 

Now i wouldnt mine testing the NAD, Primare, Anthem and rotel. they had the rotel but not their reciever.

 

wow thts not good about the Anthem reciever - not something anyone wants

[betty boop]

The Denon and marantz are cousins. The nad should be one to check out. Surprised Klapp don't do nad ? They did at one stage...

[Primare Knob]

You could also go for second hand seperates. Pay around $1200 for an older pre pro (My Marantz AV8003 for example), and spend the rest or less on a 7 channel power amp. (Theatron for example).

By the time that 4k is on the market you can than upgrade to a 4k pre pro.

I prefer my HT to be seperates, because the specs are continually changing.

[genkifd]

the problem getting the old pre is that when you require to upgrade to the latest pre you pay an arm and leg (example) the current top of the line Marantz pre in in excess of 6k. unless once again your get a old version which you have to wait a few years after its released.

 

looking at Arcam - the 750 actually has Class A amps (pretty surprised). not even the Primare has Class A/B anymore.

[betty boop]

the arcam is class A/B ? I think will find its class G

 

http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/company-tours/arcam-september-18-19-2013/426-arcam-s-surprising-avrs

 

but I wouldnt worry too much in the tech, go by what it sounds.

 

 nad, cambridge, rotel, denon/marantz I understand use class A/B

[betty boop]

You could also go for second hand seperates. Pay around $1200 for an older pre pro (My Marantz AV8003 for example), and spend the rest or less on a 7 channel power amp. (Theatron for example).

By the time that 4k is on the market you can than upgrade to a 4k pre pro.

I prefer my HT to be seperates, because the specs are continually changing.

 

I wouldnt go as far back as the 8003 frankly it was a lot of money for something that used the denon 3310 as basis, keeping in mind the 3310 was a model name shift up so infact a 2 series denon renamed

 

the marantz 7005 was 3 series based too as is the 7701 but in tech wise a bit more later in processing spec dacs etc, the marantz 8801 shares the 4520 for basis but too expensive will be more than the whole budget unfotunately

 

agree with power amp, there isnt an avr out there wiht the kind of prowess of power amp available in a separate chasis power amp like the elektra. 

[Primare Knob]

the problem getting the old pre is that when you require to upgrade to the latest pre you pay an arm and leg (example) the current top of the line Marantz pre in in excess of 6k. unless once again your get a old version which you have to wait a few years after its released.

 

looking at Arcam - the 750 actually has Class A amps (pretty surprised). not even the Primare has Class A/B anymore.

A cheap AVR that has the specs but not the power and using it as a pre amp is also an option.

It is to bad that Primare has gone class D. It is not on par with their class A/B amps. Will have to see which direction they are going with the new 60's series.

[Primare Knob]

I wouldnt go as far back as the 8003 frankly it was a lot of money for something that used the denon 3310 as basis, keeping in mind the 3310 was a model name shift up so infact a 2 series denon renamed

 

the marantz 7005 was 3 series based too as is the 7701 but in tech wise a bit more later in processing spec dacs etc, the marantz 8801 shares the 4520 for basis but too expensive will be more than the whole budget unfotunately

I personally am not too fussy about tech specs. In my opinion there aren't that big of an improvement over a few generations. 24/192 is around for quite a while and the latest big improvent for me are the HD codecs. It's the quality of the parts that matters a lot. But I don't know the differences between the Marantz internals or the Denon's.

[betty boop]

A cheap AVR that has the specs but not the power and using it as a pre amp is also an option.

It is to bad that Primare has gone class D. It is not on par with their class A/B amps. Will have to see which direction they are going with the new 60's series.

 

unfortunately the cheap avrs dont cut it 2ch wise and for music he'll be looking then to partner with a 2ch integrated with htbypass which was the other suggestion been made.

 

imyself I started with a gutsy harman kardon $2k avr I'm talking decades ago, with its brilliant processing I upgraded on the power amp side by adding an elektra. then upgraded nearly ten years later again with a $2k HK receiver and it was quite a step up in processing. then went denon hdmi capable as avr, not a cheap avr per say but still they make for brilliant processors and the power side taken care off by the elektra. eventaully when could afford it replaced the denon processor which have quite happily used for 6 years and its still flagship material so pretty happy