analog Phono Preamp or Turntable upgrade?

[Nins45]

Hi guys,

 

I'm considering changing my analogue front end, and I need some inputs on what will give a better upgrade first? As much as I want to change both, it's not feasible at the moment. 

 

To give a bit of context, my system is composed of the following:

 

Kanta 1

Michi x3s2

Lumin u1 mini (with external psu)

Chord qutest (with external psu)

 

Current TT - Rega P3 and exact cart and external NEO PSU

Current preamp - Ifi zen phono.

 

With this, will upgrading the phono stage first be better off or upgrading to a p6/exact TT or a thorens td1500? both on sale at the moment and 

Or keep the P3 (which still sounds good to be honest, but it doesn't sound as meaty and refined as my digital) and get a better phono pre? 

 

My budget is around 2K to 2.5K for the phono pre.

For TT upgrade, I'm looking at 3K max with cart (considering I need to sell my P3 first), which is why the p6/exact or Thorens TD1500 are in the list. Just not sure how big of an upgrade will it give from my P3.

 

Or the last option is to just use the money for new records. I only have about 100 records as I play more music via streaming, but now plan to spend more on analogue.

 

Thanks and looking forward to your opinions and thoughts.

 

 

 

Edited June 12 by Nins45

[cafe67]

Id look at a new cartridge, I think the new ortofon 2mr range is of a size that doesn’t require shims for a Rega TT, tho there are other choices out there - I had a dynavector 10x5 cart on a p3 and that worked well - depends on your budget ?  

[andyr]

Interesting dilemma.  

 

The Exact has a high output (at ~7mV ... compared to the normal 4-5mV for an MM cart) - which is ideal for the lowish gain (36dB in 'MM' mode) of your iFi Zen phono stage.

 

But there is a problem with the pairing, it seems:

• the Exact specs specify loading as:
  • 47k
  • and 100pF
• yet the iFi offers 100pF capacitance (in MM mode) - which means the total capacitance loading (when you add in the phono cable and arm wiring) will be above 200pF.

 

So you need to find:

1. another higher-than-normal-output MM cart which likes a 200-250pF load
2. or a phono stage which offers:
   • 36-38dB gain
   • and 0pF capacitance loading.

 

Note with #1 - due to the lack of VTA adjustment on the P3's arm which @cafe67mentioned, this cart would need to be the same height as the Exact.

Edited June 12 by andyr

[SONDEKNZ]

Free advice... worth exactly what you pay for it!  So, here's some more... 

 

I’d recommend that you take your time and change one item at a time. Take time to consider the sonic impact of each single change. Sometimes it takes weeks to completely wrap your ears around one simple change.

 

Don't be rushed by sales promos... There will always be another sale, as current models and old stock continues to age rapidly!

 

You have not mentioned what aspect of phono play-back you are seeking to improve. Perhaps you could enlighten us?

 

Based purely upon my intimate knowledge of your phono front end, I suspect that you might be chasing more natural body in the music, greater truth of timbre and fleshy richness in the sound of vocals, cellos, guitar bodies and the like.

 

The pacey REGA deck tends to the lean side of life - well my P3/RB300 did - so I'm guessing this might need to be tempered to better suit your sonic tastes.

 

If this is the case, you might do well to start with changing your Phono Stage first as, to my ears, the iFi never quite delivered in the tonal colour and timbral richness department.

 

I would very strongly suggest that you buy a phono stage that provides the flexibility to upgrade to virtually any cartridge that takes your fancy. This means both MM and MC options with plenty of MC Impedance Loading options. Avoid stepping-stones and go for the doctor!

Who knows? Perhaps a simple phono stage upgrade might bring you into clover and you may not need to make any further changes?

 

As for a turntable upgrade, if you can make the finances stretch, take a closer look at the THOREN TD1600.  It's a great turntable choice and - like the TD1500 - I think it's understated classy finish is a real eye-turner!  But THORENS has made real-world progress with the TD1600 by innovatively stabilizing the sub-chassis twist that plagues the platter-speed consistency on most suspended designs. But just be aware that it is a suspended turntable, so it sounds more like an LP12, than a REGA.

On that basis, you might like to audition a (any) suspended turntable before you take the leap, as they sound quite different to unsuspended designs.

 

Whilst I prefer the suspended sound - when done right - myself, the suspended turntable sound does not please everyone.

 

IMHO, the turntable, tonearm and phono stage are critical components in any phono front-end partnership. Cartridges also play their part, but tend to be much less costly to change. 

 

So, assuming that your (highly regarded) REGA Exact cartridge is not on its last legs, I would suggest leaving a cartridge change to last, as it is a known quantity (to you) and will help you to hear Exactly what each component change is contributing - or taking away! In this way, you can fine-tune any future new cartridge purchase to move your rig even closer to your sound - once everything else has been sorted.

 

Well, in your shoes, that's how I would play it...

Just enjoy the journey and don't let anyone - or anything - rush you! 

Edited June 12 by SONDEKNZ

[Nins45]

Thanks guys. 

 

I will have a look at a new phono stage as I the Exact still has tons of life. I played more digital than vinyl in the last two years and it's only now that I'm keen on expanding and upgrading the analog side.

 

I love the sound of my Lumin/Qutest combo as it is very punchy, fast, meaty and balanced with the michi. Never felt that the Qutest sounded harsh nor thin. 

 

I'll try to look for a phono stage first and whilst I add new records in the collection. 

[cafe latte]

1 hour ago, Nins45 said:

Hi guys,

 

I'm considering changing my analogue front end, and I need some inputs on what will give a better upgrade first? As much as I want to change both, it's not feasible at the moment. 

 

To give a bit of context, my system is composed of the following:

 

Kanta 1

Michi x3s2

Lumin u1 mini (with external psu)

Chord qutest (with external psu)

 

Current TT - Rega P3 and exact cart and external NEO PSU

Current preamp - Ifi zen phono.

 

With this, will upgrading the phono stage first be better off or upgrading to a p6/exact TT or a thorens td1500? both on sale at the moment and 

Or keep the P3 (which still sounds good to be honest, but it doesn't sound as meaty and refined as my digital) and get a better phono pre? 

 

My budget is around 2K to 2.5K for the phono pre.

For TT upgrade, I'm looking at 3K max with cart (considering I need to sell my P3 first), which is why the p6/exact or Thorens TD1500 are in the list. Just not sure how big of an upgrade will it give from my P3.

 

Or the last option is to just use the money for new records. I only have about 100 records as I play more music via streaming, but now plan to spend more on analogue.

 

Thanks and looking forward to your opinions and thoughts.

 

 

 

The first thing to do is upgrade your cartridge with literally anything.

The exact is probably the worst cartridge ever made by anyone.

It's frequency plot is not even close to flat.

I am not a Rega fan full stop for many reasons I won't go into here as not relevant, but just about any cartridge is an upgrade.

Chris

[Steever]

Been there myself with your turntable. 

Kept the table and arm. Changed out the cart and got a new phono stage. I was/am a Rega fan but I never looked back after that. 
Your budget will let you do both, ending up with something very nice. 

Another option is something like an OC9 cart from Audio Technica with a Dynavector P-75 phono stage and spend the rest on records. 

 

Edited June 12 by Steever

[Nins45]

Thanks guys! For now, I more inclined to just buy more records and build a larger collection. Once Inhave a decent size record collection then I’ll reassess my next steps. 
 

appreciate everyone’s insights. But yeah, I might get a new phono down line first before a cart and maybe new TT. 
 

thanks

 

 

[PKay]

This is an excellent cart and on sale. 
 

 

[Batty]

I agree with the recommendation of the Dynavector P75 Phono stage, I have the mk 4 iteration and it suits all my carts well from an old Sansui MM to a Van den Hul DDT-II MC.

[PKay]

There is a Technics TT in the FS by Len Wallis.  At $900 it would be a nice cheap option for you and you could sell the Rega to buy a new cart.

[Tasebass]

Have you tried the Michi phono stage?…

no point in having a good phono and no so good TT front end imo..

may I suggest auditioning a Technics SL1300G or SL1200G ( funds permitting)

partnered with a top flight MM from Audio Technica/ Ortofon/ Nagaoka plugged into the Michi should give you ( specially bass )SQ  improvements over your Rega…

Tase

[Nins45]

15 minutes ago, Tasebass said:

Have you tried the Michi phono stage?…

no point in having a good phono and no so good TT front end imo..

may I suggest auditioning a Technics SL1300G or SL1200G ( funds permitting)

partnered with a top flight MM from Audio Technica/ Ortofon/ Nagaoka plugged into the Michi should give you ( specially bass )SQ  improvements over your Rega…

Tase

Hey mate,

 

Tried the michi phono, i actually prefer the Ifi to be honest. I’ve heard the 1200gr and it does hit hard. But I prefer the Rega sound than technics. I’ve heard a p8 with an Aria Pro and an aria phono and i love the sound so I’m keen on the rega deck if I upgrade. 
 

at the moment, i’m thinking of spending more on the records. 

[Thesav]

With your budget I would advise upgrading your phono and trying a different cart as that would be the cheapest bang for buck upgrade in my opinion. 

 

I tried 4 or 5 different phono stages with my old P3 which all sounded very different. 

 

I would also suggest, as previously mentioned, to get a phono capable of MM and MC as a cart exchange is the easiest upgrade. 

[deluxetwelve]

I’m not a fan of the Exact. For under a grand you could change cartridge and phono stage.

 

I’d start with an Audio Technica VM95ML at $265 - sounds better to me than the Exact did on my RP6. Or go further with the 540ML at around $399.

 

Currently on sale is the Moon 110LP v2 phone stage - $629 down from $900. You can tweak the impedance and capacitance settings and gives some future proofing if you want to change cartridges going forward.

[Pegasus]

What is your budget?

The Technics is in my opinion the best "entry level" to a decent analog front end.

They go great with an Ortofon black mm cartridge.

Then save up for a decent phono stage.

[karengarys]

Maybe trying the phono preamp upgrade from a place that will let you loan it, or a place that offers "free returns".
"free returns" usually doesn't mean free return shipping.  Make sure the return shipping is worth the price of the experiment.  Or buy from a local brick-and-mortar that will offer the full cash refund.

[art of SOUND]

Im in agreement here with most of the advice about replacing the cart and the phono stage. Im not a Rega fan either but the deck you have with the right ancillary upgrades will give you a great return on investment. Im not sure of the reasoning for buying more vinyl now and waiting to upgrade later - if funds are available now I'd be upgrading now and every EXISTING record will sound like an upgrade, right now.

 

[Nins45]

thanks for the advice guys! appreciate it! will be checking in on phono stages.

 

[rantan]

There is nothing wrong with the iFi Zen phono. it is a great phono srage . I have never been a Rega fan and never will be so I agree with the idea of the Thorens previously cited in this thread.

I would ditch the Rega cart and TT and go with a Dynavector DV 20-X2 cart on the Thorens and keep the Zen phono. The Zen phono and the DV work superbly well together ( ask me how I know )

[The Rock Puppy]

4 hours ago, rantan said:

( ask me how I know )

Righto: how do you know?

[muzzagruzz]

Consider the Clearaudio Performance DC Wood - stunning build quality and sound.