11 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

Quantum dither?

Yes, stop dithering @Ittakuand get one😁

7 minutes ago, buddyev said:

You would say that, wouldn’t you.  Sorry, the fact is your system just isn’t revealing enough, Con. 

 

Yeah, he needs a Topping E30, like I've got, right?  😃

 

2 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Yeah, he needs a Topping E30, like I've got, right?  😃

 

He just doesn’t understand progress, Andy. 

You need a DBT on the BDT.

On 01/12/2024 at 9:23 AM, Ittaku said:

 

This marathon is over, and Jaime is indeed THE best Beethoven conductor I've ever heard live. His ninth is now my benchmark for the best concert I've ever been to - yes I know the ninth is money for jam as a piece to impress with, but pulling it off so well where I had to hold back tears (and even my wife next to me had the same reaction) is as good as it gets. It was also recorded so I'm going to have to look into whether it comes out as a release and be interesting to hear the sonics of an MSO recording. I counted at least 34 microphones that I could see so it's definitely going to come down to the quality of mixing. See if it tops the legendary performance of Solti in the 80s or the overall quality/performance balance of my LSO recording on playback.

 

By the way it was posted in another thread, but in case you haven't seen it, ABC are still streaming the Beethoven's 9th I mentioned here on iview.

 

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/mso-beethoven-s-ninth/video/AC2419H001S00

4 hours ago, Ittaku said:

 

By the way it was posted in another thread, but in case you haven't seen it, ABC are still streaming the Beethoven's 9th I mentioned here on iview.

 

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/mso-beethoven-s-ninth/video/AC2419H001S00

Helen and I loved the replay on ABC - we can only imagine how wonderful it must have been live.

The rapport between Jaime Martin and all of the performers was obvious. 

On 14/06/2025 at 12:59 PM, parrasaw said:

Helen and I loved the replay on ABC - we can only imagine how wonderful it must have been live.

The rapport between Jaime Martin and all of the performers was obvious. 

Glad you enjoyed it!

 

I had a critical listen to it on my system today after a few casual listenings, and it is a surprisingly good recording, despite being broadcast over iview in compressed audio form.

 

Apart from the slightly diffuse nature of instrument groups which could be mixing or could be the compressed audio format, the tonality was excellent. Instrument balance was very close to what I heard at the concert (row E), remarkable given the mixing from at least 34 microphones. Soloists were brilliantly recorded and balanced, and felt up front and in position. There was perhaps a hint of compression to the dynamics but it was subtle and detracted very little from the listening experience. There was also absolutely no hint of harshness, glare, or digital fatigue. Only the choir was a little muted compared to how loud they were live, and there was little sense of them being up high and around in the choir seating, but height is always completely subliminal I've found, and stereo recording and playback is unable to ever convey it IMO. That said, even in the lossy aac audio format contained within the mp4 video, it's the best 9th I've heard on my system, surpassing Solti's infamous 1980s recording, and audio quality on par with the best recordings. I so hope they release this on CD for it would be an instant buy. 

 

If you haven't listened to it yet, I highly recommend it. Performance *****, recording ***1/2

Edited June 20, 2025Jun 20 by Ittaku

I have found the first item to add to my system in quite a while, after a review in the latest Stereophile magazine - The PSI AVAA C214; an active basstrap.

 

https://www.psiaudio.swiss/avaa-c214-active-bass-trap/

 

These look very promising for dealing with low frequency absorption, controlling RT60 (room resonances) at low frequencies, and dealing with nodes. I've already got very comprehensive room treatment for the frequencies that can be managed with regular absorption and reflection so these should complement the room treatment well. I've ordered a couple of them from Corsini Acoustic Solutions, but have no idea how long it'll be before I get them, but hopefully soon.

 

Watch this space for updates.

Nice. @CORSINI Acoustic Solutions does great work and he's very knowledgeable.  He's made a huge improvement in my room. 

Okay, installed, calibrated, tinkered, fiddled, measured, listened. I have to squint really hard to hear any difference after all that. Solo piano most noticeable difference but even that is minuscule. My room's probably too large for just two of them - they might be more effective in a smaller room.  I tried moving them around many times to where I thought nodes were strongest in the room, but ended up putting them close to the front corners as recommended as it didn't seem to make much difference, apart from them being overloaded easier the closer they were to my subwoofers.

 

Did lots of measurements to see how high I could set their gain since it says to increase it to the max level one below "instability". Instability was obvious on one of them with a squeaking feedback like sound, but when I measured with roomeqwizard they were both introducing measurable distortion below this. They're meant to have a limit of 115dB in use over a range of 15-160Hz, so I cranked some 16Hz organ music, and had to set them to -12dB to not reach their limit constantly - they still work, they just max out in their effectiveness and the manual recommends putting more units in the room. For the vast majority of music they don't reach the limits except on very loud passages so I figure they're still okay. I couldn't even measure any significant improvement in RT60 on REW. I'm also left wondering if having one subwoofer at the back right corner of my room makes them less effective, as the RT60 went down for the left channel, but seemed to be slightly higher for the right channel (but was probably statistically insignificant.)

 

The phone app was also a pain to get working properly, and there ended up being 2 different apps to use. In typical hifi software fashion they were clunky and unreliable, and when I had an AVAA at the back of the room it kept dropping off wifi, even though there should be truckloads of signal there. The only good part of the apps once I got them working was I could turn them on and off and up and down at will, making measurements and comparisons very easy. Though why I needed 2 apps is beyond me. Typical legacy history showing through.

 

Final settings left +3dB, right +4.5dB.

 

Sound improvement: slightly less stuffiness to bass, low piano notes slight clarity improvement.

Downsides: none once calibrated.

 

Final conclusion: waste of money. These things cost more than an average HiFi, and I'm not about to buy more to see if more of them work.

 

Edited July 10, 2025Jul 10 by Ittaku

@Ittaku I'm sure your system is mind blowing. The room and system looks amazing. 

 

Just a suggestion: Rather than buying more PSI active bass traps, maybe consider investing this money into a quadrant or more of subwoofers & DSP, to even out in room response - this would be much more effective at controlling modes, and energy consistency. 

 

You might also consider removing the spikes on your hifi cabinet, and replacing them with neoprene/rubber isolation. 

Spikes act as couplers, and will increase vibration transfer, both up and down.  

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by Grizaudio

9 minutes ago, Grizaudio said:

@Ittaku I'm sure your system is mind blowing. The room and system looks amazing. 

 

Just a suggestion: Rather than buying more PSI active bass traps, maybe consider investing this money into a quadrant or more of subwoofers & DSP, to even out in room response - this would be much more effective at controlling modes, and energy consistency. 

 

You might also consider removing the spikes on your hifi cabinet, and replacing them with neoprene/rubber isolation. 

Spikes act as couplers, and will increase vibration transfer, both up and down.  

Hey. I have two subwoofers with 6 drivers in them each, totalling 12 drivers, which is capable of reproducing 130dB of bass evenly throughout the room, and 115dB at 16Hz at the listening position, and I use DSP extensively with custom made FIR filters. The bass traps were just looking at the icing on top of the icing.

 

I've played with various isolation and/or suspension options on hifi cabinetry and could hear no difference. Might be the concrete slab, might be the feet under the speakers, might be both.

 

Thanks for the suggestions though.

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by Ittaku

18 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Hey. I have two subwoofers with 6 drivers in them each, totalling 12 drivers, which is capable of reproducing 130dB of bass throughout the room, and 115dB at 16Hz, and I use DSP extensively with custom made FIR filters. The bass traps were just looking at the icing on top of the icing.

 

I've played with various isolation and/or suspension options on hifi cabinetry and could hear no difference.

 

Thanks for the suggestions though.

 

I can certainly see your system is of the highest quality.

Driver qty aside, those subs are only two positions though. More positions will allow improved mode manipulation, spatial energy should be more consistent. 

If its just icing, it sounds like your loving things already.... well done. Beautiful looking room.  

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2025Jul 11 by Grizaudio

Just now, Grizaudio said:

I can certainly see your system is of the highest quality.

 

Driver qty aside, those subs are only two positions though. More positions will allow improved mode manipulation, spatial energy should be more consistent.  

Yes I know you don't believe me and know that I can do better than the 2 subs I have, but I'm actually rather happy with how evenly bass is rendered across a very large area, and of course at the sweet spot.  I don't mean to sound dismissive, but I'm not trying to tackle what are normally issues with bass that I acknowledge are virtually universal.

 

I do see your point, but with the subs I have, I'm already at the limit of power consumption at the wall across multiple circuits, so alas there are some limits. Yes of course I'd be running each of them lower power if I had even more of them, but I'm sure I'd be tripping breakers if I had twice as many. I've already spent $40k on subs, and I'm actually really happy with the sound. It's just because I've run out of things that I have issues specifically with about the sound that I'm trying to fix. Even the RT60 numbers are actually fine, I was just curious what would happen if I got them lower.

17 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Yes I know you don't believe me and know that I can do better than the 2 subs I have, but I'm actually rather happy with how evenly bass is rendered across a very large area, and of course at the sweet spot.  I don't mean to sound dismissive, but I'm not trying to tackle what are normally issues with bass that I acknowledge are virtually universal.

 

I do see your point, but with the subs I have, I'm already at the limit of power consumption at the wall across multiple circuits, so alas there are some limits. Yes of course I'd be running each of them lower power if I had even more of them, but I'm sure I'd be tripping breakers if I had twice as many. I've already spent $40k on subs, and I'm actually really happy with the sound. It's just because I've run out of things that I have issues specifically with about the sound that I'm trying to fix. Even the RT60 numbers are actually fine, I was just curious what would happen if I got them lower.

 

You’re in the perfect position to judge what works, especially since you can measure the results yourself. My suggestions were just ideas to share and hopefully help a little.

 

6 minutes ago, Grizaudio said:

 

You’re in the perfect position to judge what works, especially since you can measure the results yourself. My suggestions were just ideas to share and hopefully help a little.

 

Appreciated, like I said.

Con will you be keeping them in the system or are you able to return them? 

1 minute ago, padde23 said:

Con will you be keeping them in the system or are you able to return them? 

Not sure yet, probably keeping them as dressing/ornament in the room. They're not doing any harm.

16 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Not sure yet, probably keeping them as dressing/ornament in the room. They're not doing any harm.

Also at some stage I might find a use for them in another room somewhere, or if we ever move house and I end up with a much smaller listening room.

@Ittaku If you enjoy exploring the nitty gritty of the technical side..... You might perhaps chat to Keith about VBA, SBA, and DBA...  

 

1 hour ago, Grizaudio said:

@Ittaku If you enjoy exploring the nitty gritty of the technical side..... You might perhaps chat to Keith about VBA, SBA, and DBA...  

Keith and I go way back and have had many a chat 🙂

Well I have been sceptical about these bass absorbers since I heard about them. They don't absorb bass, they cancel bass. It's effectively a subwoofer with a microphone and a very fast feedback loop. And if you are going to cancel, you may as well install a DBA like setup.

 

I recently came up with a newer and better method of designing a VBA. It uses measured impulses to determine the delays and gains instead of the conventional method where you estimate delays/gains with a tape measure and the speed of sound. With your subwoofers on opposite corners of the rooms, I would be curious about implementing a DBA or something I have been dreaming about but never had the chance to implement - a double VBA. The difference is that the rear subwoofer in a DBA is out of phase to the front subwoofer array, but a "double VBA" have both subwoofers in phase but both subwoofers outputting a cancellation wave after a certain delay. It SHOULD give double the volume output of a DBA with hopefully the same decay characteristics.

 

AFAIK nobody in the world has one, and my idea is either genius or it may turn out to be incredibly stupid. It won't cost you anything, not even wine 🙂

There is absolutely no suggestion of the measurable response changing with these in place btw, only the decay changes so they do what they're advertising at least.

I didnt hear any bass problems in my (albeit shortish) listen(s).  Your room is not normal though Con so normal approaches may not apply as well as , well , normal, so  I would take a miniscule noticeable difference as a win  as it werent too shabby before.  Might be time for another listen for me.   I wouldnt mind hearing the aava's miniscule effect.

13 hours ago, frednork said:

I didnt hear any bass problems in my (albeit shortish) listen(s).  Your room is not normal though Con so normal approaches may not apply as well as , well , normal, so  I would take a miniscule noticeable difference as a win  as it werent too shabby before.  Might be time for another listen for me.   I wouldnt mind hearing the aava's miniscule effect.

Thanks. There is an extreme amount of DSP already being applied for bass correction which is hopefully why. You're more than welcome to come over for a better listen.

Edited July 12, 2025Jul 12 by Ittaku