Coronavirus Discussion

[Assisi]

56 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

Because they are self centred, gullible, morons who feel the need to cling to the idea of being persecuted to give themselves some shabby semblance of individuality.

Your statement to me shows a lack of understanding of why some people will not have vaccinations.  I have the flu vaccination.  However I know people who are not at all in any way as you describe who genuinely will not have vaccinations for variety of reasons.  None of them think that by me or you having a vaccination will it will "protect" them.  Their respective position is that they do not want some substances in their bodies.  Some of them have strange and very unpleasant reactions to various pharmaceuticals in their bodies.  Some of them will not even take a tablet for a headache.   I disagree with their position but to me your put down is not valid.

 

If there is a vaccine developed for COVID19  sometime soon I will not be in a hurry to have it until some time has elapsed.  I can understand the development haste.  It needs to be certified safe whatever that might be for me to consider having the vaccine in the short term.  I have a very nasty reaction to some antibiotics.  I know there is a big difference between vaccines and antibiotics but I will be very careful.

 

John

[proftournesol]

43 minutes ago, pwstereo said:

The conspiracy theorists say that vaccines cause autism (that's the most popular idea that I've seen anyway).

No, us lizard people use chemtrails to cause autism, We don't need vaccines to do it anymore. We need to speed up the rollout of 5G towers as a stopgap until when can get the atmosphere saturated with chemtrails again

[muon*]

@Assisi

 

Antibiotics are useless on me as my body was saturated with them at different times too often in the past, but I had a flu shot the other day.

 

Yeah, the are very different things.

[rantan]

1 minute ago, Assisi said:

Your statement to me shows a lack of understanding of why some people will not have vaccinations.  I have the flu vaccination.  However I know people who are not at all in any way as you describe who genuinely will not have vaccinations for variety of reasons.  None of them think that by me or you having a vaccination will it will "protect" them.  Their respective position is that they do not want some substances in their bodies.  Some of them have strange and very unpleasant reactions to various pharmaceuticals in their bodies.  Some of them will not even take a tablet for a headache.   I disagree with their position but to me your put down is not valid

Sorry John but I understand perfectly.

I realise that these people do not think that the sane people will protect them by having vaccinations, but that is not the point.

 

Individual freedom of choice is a highly desirable principle and in most instances this is fine and contributes to a vibrant society. The difference with those who choose not to be vaccinated is that, in exercising their opinion, everybody else is put at at risk.

Just like we now have rules about no smoking areas and where at one time, smokers touted how it was their right to consume whatever they chose, but in doing so, secondary inhalation was a proven risk to others.

 

Diseases like Polio, Whooping cough etc were eliminated from society  for two generations and due to the antics of these mindless  zealots the diseases we once eradicated are now killing people again.

I hope you have never had the tragic misfortune of watching a tiny baby or a toddler suffering from Whooping cough but it is terrible and made more so by the fact that anti vaxxers have made this happen, even if they had no actual intent.

 

By all means allow free choice for most things, but if that free choice directly and adversely effects the health of the other 99% then free choice has no place.

[LHC]

42 minutes ago, mrbuzzardstubble said:

That's easy. You just have to look at the hidden clues behind the numbers.

Covid-19 2019. Spanish flu 1918.

2019 -1918 = 101. There's your answer. Dalmatians.

 

You could say it is a one in a hundred years event, and that should justify applying 100 folds of normal effort to it.

[muon*]

18 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

Elon had that name patented when he was 10.   

 

Not a lot of privacy for the kid,  everyone in every corner of the world will know who the parents are.

Elon said in an interview that his partner came up with the name.

 

Edit: only the A12 part was from himself, and his contribution in his words. A12 is the plane... A-12 = precursor to SR-17 (our favourite aircraft) so not patented, at least not by him.

Edited May 9, 2020 by muon*

[allthumbs]

1 hour ago, mrbuzzardstubble said:

2019 -1918 = 101

 

[LHC]

48 minutes ago, muon* said:

It only becomes real and fact once it happens, regardless of the level of motivation or expectation.

That is a very interesting point. I honestly do not know how this would play out. Covid-19 begun in late 2019, and we are already in May 2020. So is it fair to 'expect' some progress to be made by the end of this year? 

 

What we do know is the enormity of this pandemic. As of now there are over 4 million cases worldwide, over 276,000 deaths, economic costs are several trillion dollars and counting. Those are just the tangibles, and intangibles include the massive disruption to lives, livelihoods, culture and society, prospects and aspirations, education and advancement (outside of health care). Let put aside talk of 'blame' and 'accountability' for a moment; the enormous cost worldwide should translate to an overwhelming pressure to know the true origin. As reported in Science magazine (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/pressure-grows-china-independent-investigation-pandemic-s-origins) this pressure is continuing to grow across the globe.

[proftournesol]

18 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

Individual freedom of choice is a highly desirable principle and in most instances this is fine and contributes to a vibrant society. The difference with those who choose not to be vaccinated is that, in exercising their opinion, everybody else is put at at risk.

There's no such thing as individual freedom of choice without consequences when living in a society. We accept daily restrictions on our freedom of choice: we chose to drive on the left side of the road even though we are 'free' to drive on the right side of the road, for instance. Vaccination is another cost of living in a society, it's unreasonable to say that you want all of the benefits but aren't prepared to share in the costs. Don't get vaccinated if you are immune-compromised etc., otherwise chose to not get vaccinated but live like a hermit. I think that one problem with our present society is that we've become too attached to the US notion of individual freedom.

[Art Vandelay]

41 minutes ago, muon* said:

Yes! lets be as wise as Trump

 

If you have lots of money and a hot young wife, wisdom is irrelevant. 

[rantan]

28 minutes ago, proftournesol said:

There's no such thing as individual freedom of choice without consequences when living in a society. We accept daily restrictions on our freedom of choice: we chose to drive on the left side of the road even though we are 'free' to drive on the right side of the road, for instance. Vaccination is another cost of living in a society, it's unreasonable to say that you want all of the benefits but aren't prepared to share in the costs. Don't get vaccinated if you are immune-compromised etc., otherwise chose to not get vaccinated but live like a hermit. I think that one problem with our present society is that we've become too attached to the US notion of individual freedom.

Exactly. This is what I have been going on about ,not just here, but anytime and place I get a chance.

 

These anti vaxxers show no thought or care about other people they live with, work with and spend time with. Their choices are a direct threat to the vast majority of our society and is the ultimate act of selfishness.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by rantan
typos

[muon*]

47 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

 

If you have lots of money and a hot young wife, wisdom is irrelevant. 

We have different definitions of hot.

 

I have never looked at money as a god that comes before decency and morality, otherwise I may agree.

[rantan]

1 hour ago, Art Vandelay said:

 

If you have lots of money and a hot young wife, wisdom is irrelevant. 

Geez Art.

Coming from you that is surprisingly shallow.

 

Wisdom is essential and ultimately of vastly more significance to the world.

Edited May 9, 2020 by rantan

[Art Vandelay]

1 minute ago, rantan said:

Geez Art.

Coming from you that is both shallow and very surprising.

 

You're forgetting that I watched too much Seinfeld when I was younger. 

 

 

[PositivelyMusicallyGeared]

I am yet to see someone call the whole vaccination thing a Commie plot to undermine our democracy. 

[rantan]

1 minute ago, Art Vandelay said:

 

You're forgetting that I watched too much Seinfeld when I was younger. 

 

 

Indeed.

Hence your user name.

[sir sanders zingmore]

17 minutes ago, rantan said:

Geez Art.

Coming from you that is surprisingly shallow.

really?

[rantan]

Just now, sir sanders zingmore said:

really?

Certainly.

 

Although we sometimes have very different views about things , I would never say that Art's posts as shallow and I respect that.

[ghost4man]

6 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

Well they clearly aren’t pro-life

Nope. Logical fallacy. You're insisting that a person who chooses not to inject something into their bodies is by default not pro life. Tell that to someone who has witnessed vaccine injury and is left alone by the herd. 

[rantan]

6 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

 Tell that to someone who has witnessed vaccine injury 

So, that .001% of people is justification to stop vaccinations for diseases that can kill the other 99.99%.

No way!

Edited May 9, 2020 by rantan

[ghost4man]

1 hour ago, proftournesol said:

There's no such thing as individual freedom of choice without consequences when living in a society. We accept daily restrictions on our freedom of choice: we chose to drive on the left side of the road even though we are 'free' to drive on the right side of the road, for instance. Vaccination is another cost of living in a society, it's unreasonable to say that you want all of the benefits but aren't prepared to share in the costs. Don't get vaccinated if you are immune-compromised etc., otherwise chose to not get vaccinated but live like a hermit. I think that one problem with our present society is that we've become too attached to the US notion of individual freedom.

Let's agree to disagree. As I've said already tell that to someone who has witnessed vaccine injury and further who has been abandoned by the herd. It happens. I've seen it first hand with very close friends. In the end the family are left having to fight to prove what they intuitively know is the truth. You see enough of a person you become familiar with their personality, you know their happy state and not so happy ones and that gets ripped from them overnight, literally. 

[ghost4man]

1 minute ago, rantan said:

So, that .001% of people is justification to stop vaccinations for diseases that can kill the other 99.99%.

No way!

Which is easy to say when it's not on your doorstep. The precautionary principle in medicine hasn't been abandoned yet AFAIK. 

 

You get vaccinated. The other person doesn't. It's inevitable that the non vaccinated person gets blamed. 

 

As I said let's agree to disagree. 

[muon*]

Was it from the vaccine or just false pattern recognition?

 

Only an unbiased professional would know via evidence one way or another.

[rantan]

2 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

You get vaccinated. The other person doesn't.

So I am protecting myself and so is virtually everybody in oursociety. The anti vaxxer chooses to not care what happens to everybody else.

 

What a great attitude.

 

However, I am OK with agreeing to differ because I don't want to go ballistic.

[buddyev]

nice piece on freedom to/from, covid and US history for liberty-loving people everywhere.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/what-freedom-means-trump/611083/