gillmaverick Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ozflyer said: Could be a C658 firmware updates? That might be it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozflyer Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 I remembered mine got an update Saturday morning 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpr_65 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Ozflyer said: I remembered mine got an update Saturday morning There’s a current BlueOS update and a NAD firmware update. Did mine yesterday. Seems to have removed the fixed volume adjustment that used to be in BlueOS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share Posted March 10, 2020 Further revelations on my C658 journey thanks to advice from @Snoopy8 . In my system with full Dirac engaged across all frequencies the highs sounded like they we a little restricted. As a rule I generally like the highs to sparkle and the sound stage to be as large as possible, at least that's what I'm used to before I had the C658. So in an attempt to get the best of my two worlds, I wanted the lower frequencies equalized and my subs integrated but keep the highs untouched. By pulling the "Curtains" back to 200hz in the Dirac software, that's exactly what I got and the difference in sound to me was huge, much more to my liking. Sound stage larger, much more open but still very tight and tidy down low with Dirac putting everything where it should be. Also says a lot for the C658 without any equalizing at all too, this thing sounds big with the right tracks playing! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozflyer Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said: Further revelations on my C658 journey thanks to advice from @Snoopy8 . In my system with full Dirac engaged across all frequencies the highs sounded like they we a little restricted. As a rule I generally like the highs to sparkle and the sound stage to be as large as possible, at least that's what I'm used to before I had the C658. So in an attempt to get the best of my two worlds, I wanted the lower frequencies equalized and my subs integrated but keep the highs untouched. By pulling the "Curtains" back to 200hz in the Dirac software, that's exactly what I got and the difference in sound to me was huge, much more to my liking. Sound stage larger, much more open but still very tight and tidy down low with Dirac putting everything where it should be. Also says a lot for the C658 without any equalizing at all too, this thing sounds big with the right tracks playing! How do you do that? I have the software but kept the stuff default and added only the NAD curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ozflyer said: How do you do that? I have the software but kept the stuff default and added only the NAD curve. when you have the Nad curve in your software bottom right there’s 3 tick boxes, one says curtains, click it and you will see them disappear so you know where they are. Click them back on and slide the right one to the left as far as you want to go and it won’t eq anything outside them. Edited March 10, 2020 by Hi-Fi Whipped 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozflyer Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Love the tweak, works very well in my system. Thanks @Hi-Fi Whipped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyNow Hi-Fi Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Hi Guys I’m glad to see there’s a thread on this great product. I’m really impressed with it here in my showroom. I’m amazed at the feature set and quality. I thought I reach out to let you know if anyone needs help getting one after reading through that I am a fully authorized NAD retailer. I have one on demonstration and am here to help SNA members with my special SNA price- via pm only. kind Regards Geoff Haynes HeyNow Hi-Fi 0395250022 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillmaverick Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) Thought I'll Update........I am over the moon with the NAD.....Been Listening to it for last couple of hours and It has opened up a fair bit after roughly 200 odd hours of listening......Just Listening to Big Love. By Fleetwood Mac and the guitar Riff @ 1.20 mins onwards has never sounded this good.......Cheers Edited March 17, 2020 by gillmaverick 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyNow Hi-Fi Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 hour ago, gillmaverick said: Thought I'll Update........I am over the moon with the NAD.....Been Listening to it for last couple of hours and It has opened up a fair bit after roughly 200 odd hours of listening......Just Listening to Big Love. By Fleetwood Mac and the guitar Riff @ 1.20 mins onwards has never sounded this good.......Cheers Hi Gillmaverick. I’m really happy to hear that you’re enjoying it so much. I love the song big love too- saw Lindsay play it live, it was amazing. Th C658 in my showroom is opening up too, it’s my go to every day. cheers Geoff 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted March 19, 2020 Author Share Posted March 19, 2020 Have noticed a recent update seems to have overcome the volume settings that previously caused distortion if not set correctly. My C658 has stayed set at -20, there is no longer a "Fixed Volume" override on the BluOS app which means the volume can be adjusted on the app but it doesn't do anything unless its set to minimum and it mutes the C658. Better because theres no chance of distortion, but still a little strange that you cant just disable the volume on the app, unless I'm overlooking something. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 So you are not abandoning your own thread? Welcome back! Sorry this is OT but I could not resist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpr_65 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 I'm loving this unit. I've had mine for a few weeks now and it's certainly a step up as far as a DAC goes compared to the Bluesound Node 2 and a PS Audio Stella Gain Cell DAC I had previously, the NAD offers a more open and detailed presentation with no harshness or glare. The addition of DIRAC is a real eye/ear opener. It's quite amazing in my set up. I've taken several measurements now and have settled on 2 filters which I think sound best. The first is the standard DIRAC filter from the 17 point couch measurement and the other is the NAD curve from the same measurements, however I've restricted the filter to below 800hz, similar to the tip from @Hi-FI Whipped above. Both are quite distinct and can be a little track/genre dependent. The soundstage has opened right up and the bass is deep, balanced and punchy. I can actually feel the difference. I cant see myself listening without DIRAC these days. Should the worst happen and I'm stuck at home for a couple of weeks I'll be happy enough to tweak away with DIRAC. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted March 19, 2020 Author Share Posted March 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said: So you are not abandoning your own thread? Welcome back! Sorry this is OT but I could not resist If it were not for this thread and SNA theres a very good chance would have sold the C658! But to tick all the boxes I needed to, even if I sold I would still be doing sub integration and room eq so it would have been jumping out of one fire straight into another! But must admit after some listening last night the recent changes I've made with your help have got me closer to the promised land, still some tweaking required but I must be close! Plus having other things distracting me at the moment has meant I'm not as obsessed about making sure I've made the right decision, the extra time with the C658 has certainly helped the cause. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted March 19, 2020 Author Share Posted March 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, Mpr_65 said: I'm loving this unit. I've had mine for a few weeks now and it's certainly a step up as far as a DAC goes compared to the Bluesound Node 2 and a PS Audio Stella Gain Cell DAC I had previously, the NAD offers a more open and detailed presentation with no harshness or glare. The addition of DIRAC is a real eye/ear opener. It's quite amazing in my set up. I've taken several measurements now and have settled on 2 filters which I think sound best. The first is the standard DIRAC filter from the 17 point couch measurement and the other is the NAD curve from the same measurements, however I've restricted the filter to below 800hz, similar to the tip from @Hi-FI Whipped above. Both are quite distinct and can be a little track/genre dependent. The soundstage has opened right up and the bass is deep, balanced and punchy. I can actually feel the difference. I cant see myself listening without DIRAC these days. Should the worst happen and I'm stuck at home for a couple of weeks I'll be happy enough to tweak away with DIRAC. Thats great news, Dirac is certainly different for everyone and I have had to do more than I ever thought id have to, that said I understand more now too. I cant thank @Snoopy8 enough, the suggestions he made to my curves have been the game changer, he basically helped me off the selling ledge! For me even with the Nad Curve and the curtains pulled back to 200hz I still had a disconnect between the bass and the treble and the bass was a bit messy down low. What we did after that made the biggest difference to the sound, it filled the gap to connect all frequencies (the way I like it) and tightened up the bass a lot. In the next few days I'll share the latest curve I have thats made a difference to me atleast but understand every room and system is so different. My tip is start with the NAD curve and tweak to suit from there but stay away from the high frequencies because they will be the thing that can change the natural sound of the music. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said: I cant thank @Snoopy8 enough, the suggestions he made to my curves have been the game changer, he basically helped me off the selling ledge! You have not seen the bill yet! --- Thought it would be useful if I wrote down the tips here. For many people, it is not necessary to tweak Dirac. Your ears are the best judge. If the system sounds good, save yourself the angst of tweaking. However, if you need/want to tweak, here are some tips. Tweak 1 : play with the upper curtain Sometimes, people may not like what they hear at the higher end. You can use the upper curtain to limit where Dirac stops its magic; you can experiment with different upper limits. Suggest not playing with lower curtain, used when you know you have a problem on a certain range. Tweak 2 : try different target curves Some of you are using the NAD curve, others are trying their own. You can compare the results of different target curves using Profiles. Tweak 3: improving the bass with 2 tweaks You can use a target curve which boosts the bass between 4 to 8 dB, starting around 200 Hz and going down. At about 30 Hz, decay it rapidly (but never abruptly). You can experiment with different values and you can try one or other, or both. Tweak 4: sync the mains and subs curtains and target curves Sync them is my suggestion. Yes, they can be set independently but the impact is difficult to predict. Tweak 5: don’t over tweak It is tempting to continually tweak, because you can! You can get yourself in a knot. Which brings me to… Tweak 6 : go back to base Always go back to standard Dirac. You may yet be surprised how good it is. And wonder why you wasted all the time and effort doing tweaks in the first place! Edited March 20, 2020 by Snoopy8 Grammar,lower curtain 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 30 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said: You have not seen the bill yet! People pay for much less expertise, there is definitely value in getting a system to sound the way it should. I keep saying it but when I do have "the" dedicated room I want to live with for years to come I will be paying someone to set it up correctly. I know more than the layman about this stuff but no where near as much as a specialist and for a mere % of the total investment it would be money very well spent to get 100% ROI out of the gear I own otherwise you are just leaving money on the table. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillmaverick Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 4 hours ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said: Have noticed a recent update seems to have overcome the volume settings that previously caused distortion if not set correctly. My C658 has stayed set at -20, there is no longer a "Fixed Volume" override on the BluOS app which means the volume can be adjusted on the app but it doesn't do anything unless its set to minimum and it mutes the C658. Better because theres no chance of distortion, but still a little strange that you cant just disable the volume on the app, unless I'm overlooking something. Hi Mate , Well Ditto here regarding the Fixed Volume. I too noticed it Yesterday. I'm glad you did not sell the NAD. I reckon It gets better and better as time goes on. Can not wait for the bass management to be made available. Hopefully Can borrow a Umik-1 from someone in Melbourne and see if that makes a further improvement. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, gillmaverick said: Hi Mate , Well Ditto here regarding the Fixed Volume. I too noticed it Yesterday. I'm glad you did not sell the NAD. I reckon It gets better and better as time goes on. Can not wait for the bass management to be made available. Hopefully Can borrow a Umik-1 from someone in Melbourne and see if that makes a further improvement. Cheers Yeh Gill there's no silver bullet in this game but this does as much as you could expect from one box! Funny how I have forgotten about the phase and timing issues I had between my speakers and subs now that made integration so hard before I had the Nad because Dirac has well and truly solved that problem. Agree that between a few tweaks and just time with the player its getting better by the day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpr_65 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, gillmaverick said: Hopefully Can borrow a Umik-1 from someone in Melbourne and see if that makes a further improvement. Cheers Happy to lend you mine. I’ve got some pretty good measurements to work with now. PM me and we’ll sort something out. Cheers. Edited March 20, 2020 by Mpr_65 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillmaverick Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 42 minutes ago, Mpr_65 said: Happy to lend you mine. I’ve got some pretty good measurements to work with now. PM me and we’ll sort something out. Cheers. Thanks Mate , Have PMed You. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted March 21, 2020 Author Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) THE EAGLE HAS LANDED! Although I am pretty speechless right now I needed to get it off my chest while it was still raw with emotion! For about 2 weeks I have been reasonably confident that with help from @Snoopy8 I was on the right track to maximise what the Nad & Dirac could deliver, but in no way was I prepared for what I've heard for the last 2-3 hours. My FS listing proves I had thought I had made a very bad decision, I had purchased a device without hearing it, a device that no matter what I did could never sound the way I wanted it too, and I was quickly planning on retreating back to what I had previously which to the most part I was pretty happy with. Years of buying, selling, upgrading, improving, adding, selling, buying, momentary joy, sadness, regret, frustration and enjoyment have all lead to this moment. I've dreamt about this, that moment when everything just sounds right, I though it was an illusion but strangely I've also thought i'd had it, but today everything changed, and when I listen I just couldn't help but smile and wonder how in hell I pulled it off! I actually said to the boss (even she is impressed) that it's like someone walked into the room and threw magic music dust over everything! Listening to music just went to a completely different level, I was listening hard and I couldn't hear any flaws, I've always heard flaws but this is insanely good I don't even really know what I've done, and I cant believe I haven't added anything new. When sources, amplifiers, subs and speakers finally synergise the result is much bigger than any step or improvement you've heard previously, it's just massive refined sound coming at you! Now I know my system is modest and hell I'm using an AVR to power all this, I also hope like hell I don't listen tomorrow and it doesn't sound as good but time will tell! So whats the thing thats brought this altogether? It's the Nad C658 and Dirac, without question, its that simple. That said the Dirac journey for me has hardly been the overnight success I thought was coming my way but the fact I'm here after 4 weeks of pain is testament to the unit and having some guidance from this forum. So the game changer was adjusting the curves that I had worked on previously. I thought I was close before so I sat down and tweaked what I had without listening, smoothed the bottom end curve like @Snoopy8 recommended in a previous post and then created another curve that was .2db less than the previous so I have two to choose from. I thought the previous one was forcing too much bass so figured less could be more. As soon as I selected this one it just sounded right and surprisingly bigger than anything before it. For me its delivered: - Drum Snap - Deep 3D bass when needed - Sweet mids - Holographic sound stage - Clarity - Space and depth Below is the curve, note that I duplicated the main stereo curve and applied it to the subs too so they have the exact same frequency ranges. I know it wont instantly work for anyone else but if you'd like the curve to import into your software send me a PM with your email address and I'll send it. So if you have this unit and haven't hit the sweet spot yet keep the faith, this has quickly turned from a unit I was getting rid of to a unit that may never leave me! Edited March 21, 2020 by Hi-Fi Whipped 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 My fee just doubled! I have given up all my secrets and can now retire! I am glad you persisted and am delighted to hear that you have achieved what you set up to do. Enjoy... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Good to hear. IS the bold line with dots the actual or target? The Cambridge AVRs are nothing like the mainstream ones so not surprising it sounds great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted March 21, 2020 Author Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Bunno77 said: Good to hear. IS the bold line with dots the actual or target? The Cambridge AVRs are nothing like the mainstream ones so not surprising it sounds great Hi Bunno the bold line and dots is the target, and yeh the CXR is no slouch that's for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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