Uptone Audio EtherREGEN Owners & Discussion Thread

[HumanMedia]

19 minutes ago, Duke40 said:

 

 

Like you I ordered the same Planet Tech SFP's, not sure what fibre cable your using ... I'm using a 3m cable from FS.com (it was the Corning type) without attenuators. Unlike you (Sonore Optical Module -> EtherREGEN), I am connecting via optical EtherREGEN -> EtherREGEN.

 

It does sound a little harsh in the highs with the Planet Tech SFP's (my hearing can be quite sensitive for mid range and treble. Bass, well, Im a bit "challenged", by a few dB, in one of the lower octaves, so try to refrain from commenting on Bass).  That harshness is difficult not to notice once it is heard.

 

Though over the last 48 hours has been getting better.

 

Quote

Just thought I would do a post, as I have noticed you mention some harsh highs using Planet Tech Single Mode SFP's (the same as I installed on Monday night). So I decided to buy some MultiMode SFP's and listen for any difference as a bit of a test vs the Planet Tech Single Mode SFPs ... thought I would try and contribute with some testing (even though my system is extremely modest to other SNA people).

 

 

Really appreciate your post.

 

I do have some news, the sound on the PlanetTechs is changing. For at least 8 days no change. Harsh slightly metallic highs. Now the highs are noticeably different, less harsh, but the midrange is now murky where it wasn't before. I will give them a few days until the sound stabilises and stops changing and report back with more detail.  Please post your impressions when you have >10 days on yours.

 

Also kennyb123 who posted early opinions of the PlanetTechs has reported back with some new SFP darlings - the Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL and FTLF1324P2BTL. These are lower range single-mode (4-10km), lower power (lower noise?). He will provide more feedback soon but says that the Finisar are a little more neutral than the PlanetTech, which he still rates highly.

Edited November 18, 2020 by HumanMedia

[Duke40]

2 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

Please post your impressions when you have >10 days on yours.

will do

 

2 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

Also kennyb123 who posted early opinions of the PlanetTechs has reported back with some new SFP darlings - the Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL and FTLF1324P2BTL. These are lower range single-mode (4-10km), lower power (lower noise?). He will provide more feedback soon but says that the Finisar are a little more neutral than the PlanetTech, which he still rates highly.

That is interesting , was not aware of them (must admit I’m a day or two behind on the AS threads).

[HumanMedia]

@Snoopy8 talks about rabbit holes. Well these SFPs need an entire labyrinthine discussion on their own. As usual most of the empirical investigations are reported first in the massive “Novel way to massively...” thread at AS. 
 

In the back of my mind for the last month was the concept that yes optical separates us from the electromagnetic influences upstream. But the very component that does the conversion, the SFP on the downstream end, is the Achilles heel of the entire system. If that creates noise then it doesn’t matter what the optics prevent from entering the walled garden,  the SFP is already in the walled garden by design and can do whatever that particular model does. And when it comes to laser light, there will be RFI, it’s only a matter of how much and how it is mitigated.

 

Anyway the latest nugget from that thread is from cool_chris who has tried ‘many dozens’ of SFP and his favourite is the Finisar FTLF1321P1BTL-HW.

 

“So 1321 on the pucture is much closer to planetech, but not as mechanical sounding.

Also this one has very good focuse and authority. Not as good as Startech but I think it is a great balance of all 3 in 1 SFP.

 

So what you get in 1321 is about  80% of detail focuse and authotity that Startech has.

90% of what Planetech offers being very well balanced in SQ. 80% of space and delicacy that is in 1324 without being harsh. And it is do cheap that it is no brainer to get. I paid 20 Euro for 1321 SfP so 40 in total for a pair. I have collected few dozens of SFPs to find the one for me”

 

And I found his concluding statement very interesting and congruent to what I have been thinking. “Choice of SFP is one of the biggest SQ changer you can have. It has much bigger effect than most of things we do.”

 

Also from the thread the general burnin time of SFP is two weeks.

 

Alibaba has the above mentioned SFPs....

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by HumanMedia

[BioBrian]

7 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

entire labyrinthine discussion

 

I was looking at Ubiquiti's SFP offerings, and found that confusing enough. (I use their smaller ER-X router - runs off 12 V, but no SFP).

 

What are the implications of 1310 and 850 nm?

 

Would those designed for 300 m make less noise than ones for 10 km?

[HumanMedia]

12 hours ago, BioBrian said:

 

What are the implications of 1310 and 850 nm?

 

Would those designed for 300 m make less noise than ones for 10 km?

I’m new to all of this so if you want real tech knowledge Dbastin has a dedicated optical networking thread. My guess is that longer wavelength 1310 go longer distance???

 

What little I do know is that under 300m are multimode systems with cheaper multi core cabling. For longer distances it’s single mode with a single fiber. However single mode anecdotally sound better than multimode.

 

And yes, longer distances require higher signal strength, more power and are most probably RFI noisier. As it relates to audio applications, I think we are seeing correlation with the SFP people are empirically reporting as better sounding with the signal strength. The PlanetTech are 20km, the first Finisars that people jumped on are 4-10km, the one cool_chris raves about above is only 2km range.

 

So from the single-mode offerings it would appear right now that the lower-strength (shorter distance) sound the best.

 

I don’t have an Alibaba account and was a little confused about ordering (I need to get a quote?).

If any one else has an Alibaba account and is savvy and wants to go halves in 4 of those Finisar FTLF1321P1BTL-HW, PM me.

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by HumanMedia

[Snoopy8]

On 18/11/2020 at 11:09 PM, Duke40 said:

On Monday my JS-2 and two EtherREGENs arrived (JS-2 is powering both), installed on my hifi rack.

Wow! 2xERs plus a JS2.  

 

Thank you for your long post and early impressions. As you said, they are still burning in. Interested in your impressions after about 200 hours, so please post end of next week.

 

Also curious whether you have tested 1 vs 2 ERs, for both audio and video.

 

17 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

@Snoopy8 talks about rabbit holes. 

I shouldn't be laughing but  ...

 

Glad I decided not to climb into the SFP warren. It appears to be equipment specific with many variables.  Have fun!   

[Duke40]

10 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Also curious whether you have tested 1 vs 2 ERs, for both audio and video.

 

Yes, that will be part of my testing shenanigans this weekend and next weekend.

 

Next weekend I should have better impressions as I will have passed the 200 hour mark ... will do a longer post next Sunday week.

 

For testing, I was thinking of five scenarios :

1) ER dedicated to Audio, ER dedicated to Video (both ERs connected to Telstra NBN FTTN Modem). *

2) ER1 --> ER2 (ATV4K connected to ER1, SFPs between the ERs --> ER2 (B side to Naim Muso 2). **

3) ER1 --> ER2 (ATV4K connected to ER2, SFPs between the ERs --> ER2 (B side to Naim Muso 2). ***

4) ER1 --> ER2 connected via BJC CAT6A instead of Optical SFPs.  ****

5) ER1 --> ER2 connected via MMF Multi Mode vs SMF Single Mode Optical SFPs.  *****

 

*       In this scenario both ERs are independent of each other, working more like FMCs than a switch..

**     In this scenario ER1 is really working more like a switch, ER2 like a FMC.

***    In this scenario ER1 is really working like a FMC, ER2 more like a switch.

****  In this scenario I lose the benefits of Optical SFPs, yet it gives me a baseline of benefits/disadvantages of optical networking in comparison to just using ethernet CAT6A between the switchs.

***** FS.com MMF SFPs and OM4 corning cable just arrived this arvo. 

 

Actually, as I write write this now, this will be the limit of my initial testing this weekend and next weekend, as I realise I will be tackling too much (was also hoping to do some SFP rolling, kind of like tube rolling). What I hope to achieve is to narrow it down to just one or two scenarios to focus on and refine.

 

ATM, so far it is really scenario 3 that brought the best improvements for video, for audio I need more time for the new gear to settle in ... and actual time to evaluate the scenarios (only tried scenario 2 and 3 so far). 

 

For perspective, I know for sound I am just using an upmarket soundbar (Naim Muso 2) in my AV rig, so my impressions must be judged with that in mind. Also, 2 ERs powered by JS-2 is simply overkill when just using a soundbar, though I find the Naim Muso 2 quite sensitive and revealing to power/mechanical isolation, so it got me wondering that I could trial and test some network configurations for my longer term goals. 

 

My short term goal is to finalise the foundations (network, power, vibration/resonance control), give my wallet a break and just enjoy the music & movies in 2021.

 

Longer term goal is to go for active speakers, maybe something like the Kii Three  in 2022 (have not heard them yet, they do intrigue me, hope to hear them at the next Sydney hifi show when the world gets back to being more normal). So this year I'm kind of building the highway (network, power, vibration/resonance control), before getting a nice sports car.

 

I will also whip up a network/AV configuration diagram next weekend once things have settled in past the 200 hour mark. Hopefully that can quickly show my findings & impressions, and will help me articulate my thoughts in a more concise manner. Oops, this was a lengthy post, in future they will be more concise.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Duke40
typos

[HumanMedia]

@Duke40

 

My gut feel is that scenario 2 will be the best.

I can see a major flaw that you probably know already but needs to be mentioned just in case you didn’t know. Using both outputs on the JS-2 will kill any isolation between the two items powered. It will effectively tie the ground of the two devices. In fact in Scenario 4 this could also create a ground loop which may not only share the noise on the ground plane but amplify it.

 

There are some very limited cases where using both outputs of a JS-2 (or any power supply) is not too terrible. An example would be using the JS-2 to power an ER and a component on that ERs A-side which is not downstream, like a router or computer. And the downstream is from side B only. Or to power two separate devices only on the A side which have no connection to anything downstream of the B-side. However the more I am learning about upstream devices with clock crystals, even these scenarios are not ideal. Adding ground noise from another components just on the A-side could worsen the timing of data sent to isolated devices downstream from the B-side.

 

The worst situation to avoid is having a single JS-2 powering anything on both sides of the moat, or two daisy chained ERs. This is literally crossing the streams (Ghostbusters reference). The optimal is to avoid using both outputs of a JS-2 at once.

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by HumanMedia

[dbastin]

@Duke40

 

Based on my experience...

 

Firstly, I'm not confident using BJC and Muso 2 is going to enable the realisation of the full benefit of ERs with JS 2.

 

Secondly, you need to decide if video or audio is priority, and give the priority the greatest isolation from everything else.

 

If audio is priority, I suggest this ...

 

Modem/router > ER1 side A

 

ER side A > video devices

 

MOAT - ER1 side B > ER2 - MOAT - ER2 Side B > audio devices 

 

Between ER 1 and 2 keep cable very very short, or get a good audio grade cable.  Messing with fibre here may actually be worse, not detectable with your audio set up.

 

The next best option for audio would be your scenario 2.  Video would benefit less due to less isolation.

 

If you connect both audio and video to the same ER they're likely to degrade each other, moreso if both on Side A.

 

Finally, consider ditching the Telstra router/modem and replace with either Ubiquiti ER X SFP or Mikrotik eg:

 

CRS106-1C-5S

CRS112-8G-4S-IN

CRS305-1G-4S+IN

 

CRS = Cloud Router Switch.  I gather they are built around a switch chip but have ample CPU for simple/basic routing duties for a residence.  I gather for say business or complex routing a router would be better, but then switching is compromised due to usually no switch chip.

 

The ER X SFP is a router with a switch chip so theoretically better.

 

Ideally put the router on LPS, good power cord and power conditioning.  Consequently my router is in my hifi rack.

 

While a better router without WiFi built in is likely to bring benefits, an additional benefit is to then run fibre between router and ER1. 

 

Enjoy experimenting, and try not to reach hasty conclusions - sometimes these changes are not so easy to fully appreciate.

Edited December 9, 2020 by dbastin

[Duke40]

 

4 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

My gut feel is that scenario 2 will be the best

Agree, I also expect scenario 2 will be best.
 

5 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

I can see a major flaw that you probably know already but needs to be mentioned just in case you didn’t know. Using both outputs on the JS-2 will kill any isolation between the two items powered. It will effectively tie the ground of the two devices. In fact in Scenario 4 this could also create a ground loop which may not only share the noise on the ground plane but amplify it.

yes, you are right (somewhere along the way I forgot that, mistakenly thought that the JS-2 had floating grounds from each other if I connected using optical SFPs).

 

in my original plan prior to the EtherREGENs arriving, I was going to actually use my VR Mini Supercapacitor supplies to power the EtherREGENs. They are similar power supplies to your Farad Super3, except they have dual power banks (complete isolation from AC mains. In the manual Vinnie mentions not to worry about using fancy power cords/fuses/power conditions, as while one SuperCapacitor bank is providing power, the other is charging, so AC input and DC output is always isolated from each other).

Only problem is one of the VR MINI is 12V, the other is 19V.  I have been thinking of getting one of these ldovr.com voltage regulators to drop the voltage output from 19V to 12V.

DXP-3A0DSCombo Ultra Low Noise High Power
Dual Stage Regulation Power Supply

https://www.ldovr.com/product-p/dxp-3a0dscombo.htm

If I get one of these for the  I can optimise the power supply for the 2nd EtherREGENs in the chain.

Romaz and Austinpop on AS appear very impressed with these voltage regulators.

 

I’m thinking if I get one of these, I can get an even better result from the EtherREGENs.

 

5 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

There are some very limited cases where using both outputs of a JS-2 (or any power supply) is not too terrible. An example would be using the JS-2 to power an ER and a component on that ERs A-side which is not downstream, like a router or computer. And the downstream is from side B only. Or to power two separate devices only on the A side which have no connection to anything downstream of the B-side. However the more I am learning about upstream devices with clock crystals, even these scenarios are not ideal. Adding ground noise from another components just on the A-side could worsen the timing of data sent to isolated devices downstream from the B-side.

 

The worst situation to avoid is having a single JS-2 powering anything on both sides of the moat, or two daisy chained ERs. This is literally crossing the streams (Ghostbusters reference). The optimal is to avoid using both outputs of a JS-2 at once.

I would then could use the JS-2 to power my Roon Nucleus and Telstra NBN modem/router.

Then the 12V VR mini for the first EtherREGEN.

The 19V VR Mini could use the ldovr voltage regulator to drop the power down to 12V for the 2nd EtherREGEN.

 

 

Will whip up a couple of diagrams later tonight to show some options I have been thinking about, then post them in this thread.

@HumanMedia Thank you for your thoughts, good on you.

 

 

[Duke40]

3 minutes ago, dbastin said:

Firstly, I'm not confident using BJC and Muso 2 is going to enable the realisation of the full benefit of ERs with JS 2.

@dbastin, many thanks for your input.
 

Do you mean that I should get a better Ethernet cable for between the ER and the Muso 2?

Was thinking of getting a Ghent JSSg360 , Designacable Cat6A (floating, with no shields tied) or a Shunyata Venom Ethernet cable.

Or that the Muso 2 will not be resolving enough to show the benefits?

im ok with that  after all it is just a soundbar, and I per cent agree that it may not enable the full realisation of the ER benefits. Just trying to experiment a bit until I get something more audiophile like the Kii Three in my longer term plan.

 

Just trying to clarify if you mean BJC or Muso 2 (or both)?

Personally my own view & thoughts are both are not up to enable the full benefits ... and frankly having a dual ER setup is simply overkill for my humble system, though I would like to experiment a bit and do some optimisation. If I can not achieve benefits of having a dual ER configuration, I’ll just sell one of the ERs.

 

36 minutes ago, dbastin said:

 

Secondly, you need to decide if video or audio is priority, and give the priority the greatest isolation from everything else.

Yes, you are right ... I will have to make a choice between video or audio.

I was trying to have my cake and eat it too, but in the end, I know too think I will have to make a choice which to prioritise.

 

For what AV gear I have, it kind of makes sense to prioritise video ( and darqueknight thread on AS for formal video of ER benefits did inspire me to try some optimisation and experiment). From what I saw the other night, the effect on video was stunning, magnificent (like the best qualities of projectors and OLED combined).

 

Though I will give it a go for optimising audio, curious minds and all that.

 

 

42 minutes ago, dbastin said:

Finally, consider ditching the Telstra router/modem and replace with either Ubiquiti ER X SFP or Mikrotik eg:

Initially I was just going to get one ER and a Mikrotik (like the one jabbr on AS mentioned).

Though I was already getting the JS-2 and ER, the cost delta got smaller (mainly due to shipping)

between 2 ERs .... or ... 1 ER & 1 Mikrotik. So I thought why not go for 2 audiophile switch’s, hence the reason I got 2 ERs.

 

53 minutes ago, dbastin said:

Ideally put the router on LPS, good power cord and power conditioning.  Consequently my router is in my hifi rack.

I actually have a PS Audio Stellar P3 on the way for my AV rack, which is what got me thinking to put the JS-2 & both ERs on the AV rack. As per @HumanMedia earlier comments, I’m defeating the isolation, so I’ll whip up a couple of network diagrams later tonight to visualise some options. I do have some flexibility for locating with the VR Mini’s LPS, they don’t care or seem to respond to good power cords or power conditioning, due to there design.

 

im actually still toying with the idea of still getting a Mikrotik, and maybe using the 19V VR Mini for it (then I would not need the ldovr voltage regulator that I mentioned in my previous post). This would mean I would need another good quality LPS.  Maybe get the new Gieseler Kraftwerk II LPS ? @Snoopy8 did a great review, and this LPS does interest me. If I end up needing another LPS, I may give this one a go.

 

1 hour ago, dbastin said:

Enjoy experimenting, and try not to reach has conclusions - sometimes these changes are so easy to fully appreciate.

 

Will do .

Once again, many thanks for your input, @HumanMedia input, and the likes .

I have a few things to consider,  hopefully I get can get some diagrams made later tonight (or tomorrow), I think it will be easier to work out the best options to trial, and articulate my thoughts.

 

 

[dbastin]

5 hours ago, Duke40 said:

Just trying to clarify if you mean BJC or Muso 2 (or both)?

Both. For that matter, the diferences you hear between your scenarios might seem very small until you upgrade the audio system.

 

For context, I have Antipodes EX which has a very quite direct Ethernet out to my endpoint (Devialet Pro).  I have ER in between these.  ER to Devialet is Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Ref.  From EX to ER was Wireworld Platinum, and I changed to JCAT Signature Gold there was an easily noticeable improvement (in my system) - downstream of MOAT!

 

6 hours ago, Duke40 said:

Mikrotik (like the one jabbr on AS mentioned).

Which one is that? Can you provide a link to that AS thread?

 

6 hours ago, Duke40 said:

VR Mini’s LPS, they don’t care or seem to respond to good power cords or power conditioning, due to there design.

I forgot about those PSUs.  Thanks for reminder.

 

My current aim is to reduce the total number of/cost of power supplies and cords in my Ethernet system which has router plus three isolation devices, so 3 LPSs, 3 power cords.  But they make appreciable difference, so need to strategise.

[Duke40]

2 hours ago, dbastin said:

8 hours ago, Duke40 said:

Mikrotik (like the one jabbr on AS mentioned).

Which one is that? Can you provide a link to that AS thread?

Oops, In my previous post I should have stated the third one you mentioned and listed in your previous post,

not the one that Jabbr mentions (though he mentions it too, a lot).

 

It is the third option you mentioned in your previous post ... MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+IN

 

It is just he mentions this MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+IN (10 Gbe switch) frequently in quite a number of posts on AS, so when you mentioned it too, that's the one that drew my attention of the three you listed.

Jabbr mentions it quite often, so I must have already formed an association with this switch and Jabbr.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/60415-melco-s100-ethernet-switch-measurements/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-1081727

 

2 hours ago, dbastin said:

9 hours ago, Duke40 said:

Just trying to clarify if you mean BJC or Muso 2 (or both)?

Both. For that matter, the diferences you hear between your scenarios might seem very small until you upgrade the audio system.

 

For context, I have Antipodes EX which has a very quite direct Ethernet out to my endpoint (Devialet Pro).  I have ER in between these.  ER to Devialet is Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Ref.  From EX to ER was Wireworld Platinum, and I changed to JCAT Signature Gold there was an easily noticeable improvement (in my system) - downstream of MOAT!

 

 

Understood. I thought that may be the case, I appreciate you taking the time to clarify. 

That is interesting you are getting improvements downstream of the MOAT.

 

This networking aspect of audio can be indeed be like falling into a rabbit warren.

I think I have already fallen in.

 

2 hours ago, dbastin said:

My current aim is to reduce the total number of/cost of power supplies and cords in my Ethernet system which has router plus three isolation devices, so 3 LPSs, 3 power cords.  But they make appreciable difference, so need to strategise.

 

Yes, I'm already at 3 LPSs (JS-2, VR Mini 12V, VR Mini 19V) and toying with the idea of yet another if I get a MikroTik to use as a router or switch, or if I just use one rail of the JS-2 (then I would be up to 5 LPSs).

I'm definitely going to need to do more effort on strategy, I was hoping to keep the network in a basic configuration as much as possible. My network diagram is in a state of flux.

 

11 hours ago, dbastin said:

The next best option for audio would be your scenario 2.  Video would benefit less duets less isolation.

 

Yes, video did degrade (it lost that magic sense of depth from scenario 3), yet audio improved, like both you and @HumanMedia correctly predicted. Im still trying to work out something using both your and HumanMedia feedback, combined with the LPSs (and the available voltages). If both VR Mini's were 12V it would be a bit easier (just use them for the ERs), then short term use the JS-2 on the Roon Nucleus and Telstra Modem, then get another LPS for the Telstra Modem (leaving the JS-2 for the Roon Nucleus), then another LPS for a MikroTik if I choose to go down that path. There are many options, so I am going to do more research.

 

Have also initiated contact to see if my VR Mini 19V can be dropped down to 12V for use with ER, then I would have two 12V super capacitor LPSs to use for the ERs (that would help prevent ground loops if I follow your suggestion of

12 hours ago, dbastin said:

If audio is priority, I suggest this ...

that you mentioned earlier). Though I would not be utilising optical connections, just relying on the MOATS of the ERs, and super capacitor power supplies to power them, to help prevent ground loops.

 

Crikey, and I thought vibration/resonance control was tricky (settled on a mixture of Townshend Audio Pods under either 10mm Aluminium plate from metal shop or 20mm glass, IsoAcoustics Stand, some Aluminium spring footers from eBay). The network & associated power supply is becoming tricky to optimise and keep minimal (and keeping it minimal was kind of a goal, along with preventing ground loops between the AV rack and the network rack).

 

Thanks again for your input.

 

 

[dbastin]

On 21/11/2020 at 12:23 PM, Duke40 said:

Was thinking of getting a Ghent JSSg360 , Designacable Cat6A (floating, with no shields tied) or a Shunyata Venom Ethernet cable.

Check this out ... besides focussing on Shunyata, the general message is cables make a big difference ...

 

What have I learnt from this extended session with the Shunyata ethernet cable family? First, that the ‘entry’ level Venom is a huge improvement over standard ethernet cables. Secondly that one can hear the differences between the Common Mode filtered cables and the unfiltered ones. Unless you have a super high end system you may well find that one of the latter is more than good enough for your purposes.   At about three times the price, the Sigma is astonishingly good – if you have a system sufficiently revealing to let you hear what the Sigma is doing then just go for it. It would be fascinating to see how much better an upmarket router could make things (a better power supply on standard router helps – Ed). 

 

https://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/shunyata-research-venom-delta-alpha-sigma-ethernet-cables

 

[HumanMedia]

PlanetTech SFP burn-in update.

3 weeks of solid burn-in and they sound great!

The initial high end metallic tint has gone. The midrange is even clearer.  Going back and forth between ethernet input and optical input to the EtherRegen is like night and day. I’ve left the ethernet cable next to the EtherRegen to quickly demo to bits-is-bits visitors if they need any convincing.

 

Both input types have different pros and cons so there is not a winner in all areas. In my setup Ethernet input has way more bass. It’s like sitting on a big warm bouncy cushion of bass in comparison. However the highs of the ethernet input are grittier. Ethernet is also a bit less clear in the midrange. 
 

Normally I favour a warmer bassier option, but overall the optical input is so much clearer and tighter and spacious. Ethernet sounds too cloudy (and gritty) in comparison. Really happy with the outcome.

 

Hasnt stopped me from wanting more of the goodness. I found an alternative supplier of the FTLF1321P1BTL-HW and they are sitting at GUANGZHOU airport in the now customary 1 week quarantine? period before flying over here.

One simple tweak I just applied to my ultraRendu being fed using the LMS server has me surprised and delighted. I’ve actually known about it for years but I’ve been too confused by the server settings page to apply it. But now I have and sure enough it’s a subtle but repeatable improvement.

 

The server now automatically convers all my FLACs to WAV format PCM and sending that to the streamer. The streamer has less processing to do and it is a small but definite improvement, less spitty highs and better bass. It actually compliments the optical input perfectly, and it was free and only took 1 minute to change the setting!

 

I have had so many small quality improvement revelations in the last year, and all upstream from the DAC.

 

Cheers all!

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by HumanMedia

[HumanMedia]

Finisar FTLF1321P1BTL-HW SFPs arrived and burning in, sound good, smooth and bassy right off the bat, piano sounds a little more natural in the mid range compared to the PlanetTech (which now sound great after a solid 3 week burn-in). Im suspecting these Finisar were actually second hand so already burned in. Will give more impressions after 2-3 weeks.

 

If anyone is interested in getting some, without using Alibaba this is where I got mine:

https://www.hkwilwin.com/products/ftlf1321p1btl-hw?_pos=1&_sid=24c4c3ac1&_ss=r

 

 

@Duke40 - How are your PlanetTechs sounding now with a bit of time on them?

Edited December 8, 2020 by HumanMedia

[Duke40]

5 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

f anyone is interested in getting some, without using Alibaba this is where I got mine:

https://www.hkwilwin.com/products/ftlf1321p1btl-hw?_pos=1&_sid=24c4c3ac1&_ss=r

 

 

@HumanMedia thank you very much for the the link for Finisar, I just now purchased a couple of these. Much appreciated.

 

 

3 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

@Duke40 - How are your PlanetTechs sounding now with a bit of time on them?

 

 

Actually, just used them for a week ... my network is under construction ?  with a number of changes, especially with some of the feedback from both you and @dbastin.  Plus some ideas of my own.

 

First, I was trying to find the best fit for the JS-2, as I was breaking the "moat" by having both EtherRegens in series and powered by the JS-2, so decided to find the best combination of devices for the JS-2, as it is my best LPS. As I have 2 ER's, I'll just name them ER(Audio) and ER(Video). 

 

Tried just JS-2 and Roon Nucleus with one ER(Audio) ... though I found that that he best combination was to still power both ER's with the JS-2, though not connected or cascaded like before. So:

[JS-2 (Output 1) to ER(Audio)]   Telstra NBN FTTN modem --> ER (Audio) B side--> Naim Muso 2

[JS-2 (Output 2) to ER(Video)]   Telstra NBN FTTN modem --> ER (Video) B side --> Apple TV 4K --> 77" Sony OLED

 

I know I have a shared ground for the ERs when using the JS-2 to power both, though they are no longer connected together with ethernet or optical SFPs. My initial thoughts were both sound and video were best by cascading the ERs in series, instead of seperate, though now that both ERs and JS-2 have burned in and settled, I prefer them not connected together as the benefits were very minor, subtle on the audio side (which is why I have not been using the Planet Tech SFP recently).

What I do have with 2 ERs is 2 "B" sides, so I can maximise both audio and video.

 

So, ERs seem to really do love great power supply, much more important than two connected together.

 

Getting back to ER and SFPs ... I have ordered a Router, MikroTik CRS-305 which is 10Gb, will set it up with RouterOS, so I will soon be able to use optical SFP's again, including putting the PlanetTech back into the system, along with the Finisar SFPs that you mentioned (and I just ordered). Then I can test PlanetTech vs Finisar, the winner will go to connect ER(Audio), the next best will be used for ER(Video). I have already received some Mikrotik Ethernet SFP's for MikroTik CRS-305, still nearly 2 weeks away before the MikroTik CRS-305 Router arrives.

 

So my simple network of just 2 devices (modem and Roon Nucleus) is slowly growing.

 

This is my plan to use the SFP's and the router (I really need to get a copy of Visio, so I can whip up a network diagram, anyhow, this is the verbose version of what is happening in 2 weeks. when the MikroTik router arrives.

 

MikroTik CRS-305 --> optical SFP PlanetTech --> ER (Audio) A side, then B side--> Naim Muso 2

MikroTik CRS-305 --> optical SFP Finisar --> ER (Video) A side, then B side--> Apple TV 4K

MikroTik CRS-305 --> ethernet MikroTik SFP --> Roon Nucleus

MikroTik CRS-305 --> ethernet MikroTik SFP --> Telstra NBN FTTN modem

MikroTik CRS-305 --> ethernet (spare port)

 

For the spare ethernet port on the router I'm also seriously considering the idea of getting a wifi 6 router like the AmpliFi Alien (and a Netcomm DM200 to replace the Telstra modem) or Netgear Orbi, though the prices for wifi 6 routers are still very "audiophile" at the moment. Though I would then have a fast modern network, optimised and segmented for audio and video on the LAN, and fast, good range for wifi. 

 

Other tests that I have done with the ER's has been in relation to vibration/resonance control.

 

Have a number of Townshend Audio Seismic Pods, and recently some IsoAcoustics Aperta Stands that I picked up in the Black Friday sales, along with my IsoAcoustics ISO-430 stand. I find Townshend Audio Seismic Pods raise the sound stage when placed under speakers, had a spare set so modified the top shelf of my network rack with 3 pods because I wondered what the effect of reducing vibrations getting to ER's clocks and my Roon Nucleus. Well, the effect was similar to benefits from good speakers and DACs (this is what I remember from my testing when I was a real audiophile years ago ) ... though more subtle ... raised soundstage, widen soundstage, less bass boom which leads to more clear midrange and treble (and remember I'm just an AV guy in a home gym/office with an upmarket soundbar, a big telly, whose main listening chair is the exercise bike , and ...  I don't even have two speakers , yet even I can appreciate the difference. Makes me wonder what a good audiophile setup would reveal). TL;DR; Townshend Audio Seismic Pods benefits network gear, similar benefits though not to the same degree as speakers/DAC.

 

Next bit is a bit long-winded, but I'll get there in how it relates to ERs.

 

Originally I had my MuSo on IsoAcoustics ISO-430 stand ... and liked it, it seems the absorb/control the resonance of the speaker and work great in the lateral plane. Sound very control'd with better deeper bass.

Recently I tried Townshend Audio Seismic Pods between two pieces of 10mm thick Aluminium under the MuSo, it raised the soundstage, and bass was was more defined. Pods seem to be great in the vertical plane, bass more articulate and take away bass boom, letting the midrange and treble become more clear.

Then I tried Townshend Audio Seismic Pods between two pieces of 10mm thick Aluminium, then placed  IsoAcoustics Aperta 300 on top, then the MuSo on top of that ... and it was the best combination of all.

 

So, Im going to try something similar this week with the top shelf of my network rack that holds the ERs, Roon Nucleus ... 3 Townshend Audio Seismic Pods have already been in place for about 2 weeks under the top shelf, so tomorrow night will place IsoAcoustics ISO-430 stand on top of the shelf, then piece of 10mm thick Aluminium, the network gear such as ERs will sit on top of that.

 

Why I am doing this is because clocks are supposed to be sensitive to vibration, and  switches (like the ER) and source (like my Roon Nucleus) should perform more optimally with attention to vibration/resonance control.

 

A lot of focus on the ER appears to be on feeding it the very best power, and also the best SFP ... I believe in those things ... a lot (as my ERs really love the JS-2) ... though I do not want to just focus on those aspects, I think vibration/resonance control is important to take care of.  As my focus (or project this year) is to optimise the trifecta of Network/Power/Vibration, enjoy the music (and movies), then just add a couple of active speakers in a year or two.

 

I have the parts to experiment with, just a little more fine tuning and I'll be settled on this vibration aspect throughout my humble system (I respect the other people in this thread have superior systems, I'm just a guy in a man cave going a little wild on experimenting ).  Both my AV rack and network rack are Schroers & Schroers, big & strong (can hold incredible amount of weight), and unfortunately made of steel & glass, so rings like a bell and impacts a harshness to the treble ... unless I make a platform using something like IsoAcoustics or Townshend Audio Seismic Pods (the only other type of footer I kept were some spring aluminium footers I got from eBay).

 

Other upcoming test for the ERs, have ordered a Holton Balanced AC One 3KVA Fully Balanced AC Mains Power Conditioner to go on my AV rack to power and protect my AV (Naim Mu-So 2, Sony Oled, Apple TV 4K).   This should arrive in the next fortnight. I'm kind of considering getting a 2KVA version for my network rack, to protect, and also to optimise the power delivery to the UpTone Audio EtherREGENs, MikroTik Router, Roon Nucleus.  I'm going to first try the Holton Balanced AC One 3KVA on my network rack to see if it provides benefits to the ERs and network, then it will be moved to optimise/protect my AV rack. I'm kind of hoping (at least my wallet does) that Balanced power conditioning does not make a big difference for the network over my $22 Bunnings power board, for powering the network, and just get a quality power strip of high calibre (been reading up on Gigawatt PF-1e power filter strip or IsoTek Polaris).

 

So, had a few things going on, with more experimenting to come. Thanks  again for the Finisar link.

 

[Snoopy8]

18 hours ago, Duke40 said:

Other upcoming test for the ERs, have ordered a Holton Balanced AC One 3KVA Fully Balanced AC Mains Power Conditioner to go on my AV rack to power and protect my AV (Naim Mu-So 2, Sony Oled, Apple TV 4K).  

Have been using a Holton DC Blocker One for a few years.   Your AC One has the DC blocker built in.  Would be interested to hear how things change for you. Suggest you also try plugging your TV into the Holton.  A DC Blocker improved my Plasma image to such an extent that my better half noticed it (normally does not pay attention to these things!).

 

I tried plugging my BD player to the ER to access Amazon Prime but found no difference with my 1080p TV.  It was plugged "across the moat".  A bit disappointed given your findings and also on AS.   Maybe I need to try with 4K material?

[Duke40]

2 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Have been using a Holton DC Blocker One for a few years.   Your AC One has the DC blocker built in.  Would be interested to hear how things change for you. Suggest you also try plugging your TV into the Holton.  A DC Blocker improved my Plasma image to such an extent that my better half noticed it (normally does not pay attention to these things!).

@Snoopy8 It was actually one of your posts in another thread which mentioned that the Holton DC Blocker improved the colour for your plasma, which raised awareness to me of this brand (only got back to reading SNA and AS a lot in the 6 months) so was unaware of Holton until recently, your post got me intrigued so I started investigating the Holton DC Blocker and ended up getting the 3KW balanced power supply .
 

So, I thank you for your posts as I have found them very helpful, they have influenced me, not just in this thread but the Gieseler thread for the Kraftwerk II (once the Mikrotik router arrives and settles in, I see a need for more LPS. Just got to get the network gear finalised and delivered before getting more LPS, I want to do things in stages so I understand the effects of the numerous changes my network is undergoing. Anyway more LPS is 2021 Q1 stuff, as I would like to try a Kraftwerk II with the ER).

Anyway the Holton bps is being built, hopefully it arrives before Xmas.

 

Yes, that’s was the intial plan to put TV onto the Holton 3KW BPS, along with the Naim MuSo 2 for sound, and the Apple TV 4K. Though I will try the Holton 3KW BPS also just on the network rack to see its effects on the network gear like the ERs. Curious minds and all that.

 

 

2 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

I tried plugging my BD player to the ER to access Amazon Prime but found no difference with my 1080p TV.  It was plugged "across the moat".  A bit disappointed given your findings and also on AS.   Maybe I need to try with 4K material?

 

Yes 4K material. You are right.

The next part is detailed, so short version is once I got around to trying 1080p, the ER did not do much at all for 1080p content, and I was also disappointed about this.

 

So 4K, and also HDR more so than SDR content, also the better the video production, the better the effect.

 

In an earlier post I wrote ...

On 18/11/2020 at 11:09 PM, Duke40 said:

plus, the improvement to video was magnificent ... that was the word that kept occurring in my mind. On my OLED TV a sense of depth to the picture that I have normally associate with projectors or being at the cinema (not from a home TV), improved more natural colours, less judder/improved motion while watching Netflix Planet Earth (4K Dolby Vision).

This was on 4K material watching on a 77” 4K Sony OLED. 
I was mesmerised by the change and kept rewatching Netflix Planet Earth for about 2 weeks.
Music would be playing via ER(Audio) while ER(Video) was serving an improvement to the 4K stream which I consider magnificent.

I actually though darqueknights positive video review on AS was reserved in the benefits of the ER.

 

Also read the review link that I believe @frednork posted earlier in this thread, then watched the same movies the reviewer mentioned, “Ford vs Ferrari” and “Bladerunner 2049” in 4K Dolby Vision and my experience was similar to the reviewers, about the benefits for video of the ER.

After the 2 week honeymoon with 4K content I then tried 1080p streaming ... and the positive benefits were substantially reduced/diminished.

 

I actually experienced better benefits by just adding an inexpensive $90 shielded power cable to the TV ... 1080p content seemed to benefit much more from this. A Nordost Purple Flare power cord made much more improvement for powering my Apple TV 4K when it was showing 1080p content.

So in my opinion, if it is 1080p content or 1080p display device, money is better spent elsewhere, like power conditioning or a power cable.

 

All I got For 1080p as far as benefits go was a little of the sense of depth to the image (and that was not to the degree of 4K).

Nothing else really to note.
It was actually disappointing that the improvements were so minor for 1080P as there is content that would be great to experience the substantial positive benefits that I see with 4K material.

 

I find this a bit weird for video benefits (fantastic for 4K Dolby Vision, the better the production the better the improvements, though 1080p is a bit meh as far as improvements go). The other unusual bit, is that it appears for a lot of people that for Audio that it takes 1 to 2 weeks for the ER to burn in and fully realise the benefits ... yet for 4K video, my experience was that it was immediate and substantial,  it did not further improve, degrade or change... the initial positive effect remained and is a constant significant benefit for 4K content on a 4K device. HDR high dynamic range content experiences greater benefits than SDR content.

Yet, for audio benefits of the ER I have not noted or seen anyone mention something like ‘oh, it must be at least 24 bit... not 16 bit”, all audio content seems to have worthwhile improvements.

The only thing I have noted since I got the ER for audio is that I like Tidal MQA content less, it sounds off (have noticed that it is easier to tell when MQA or not recently. Please everyone, let’s be kind and not let the thread get derailed by MQA. I was very hesitant to even type those three letters).

Anyway I just let the Roon Nucleus resample all Tidal content to 24 bit 88khz as this is the native rate of the dac inside my Naim MuSo 2 (I figured it would take a bit of the load off the sound bar, and it does sound better this way).

 

Anyway, that’s my experience now I have had the ERs a few weeks longer.

[Duke40]

I have been performing some more experimenting with ERs, with focus on heat absorption, shielding and vibration/resonance control (considering its effects on oscillators, clocks).

 

TL:DR;

My ERs are now sitting

above

10mm Black Aluminium 

above

IsoAcoustics Aperta 300 stand

above

top shelf of my network rack

... which is isolated via the use of 3 Townshend Audio Seismic Pods. 

 

Just posted on the AS ER thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments, as it was from some ideas I gained from some of Swensons posts, along with my own previous experience (Townshend Audio Seismic Pods, 10mm Aluminium plates), plus also taking some risks and trying new things (IsoAcoustics Aperta Stands).

 

I'll copy and paste what I just wrote on the other site (in reply to two of John Swenson posts ... one of Swensons posts was regarding heat of the ER, the other vibration control/isolation).

 

"I have a number of 10mm thick Aluminium plates it was bare metal, and I remembered this post you made last year, so I painted them black on the weekend.
 
Have noticed both of my ER temperature drop considerably.
 
As a test tonight, I left one right side up with the rubber feet still attached, the other upside down (to see if a closer, direct contact would further reduce the temperature. Oh, by the way, the aluminium plates still have several markings & swirls underneath to help prevent standing waves (from a post you made several years ago on another AS thread regarding vibration/resonance control). Please excuse the mess, my network is undergoing several changes.

"

 

also ...

 

"Apart from painting the Aluminium plates black (I use them as part of my "anti vibration/heat absorbing/shielding" platforms, I placed an IsoAcoustics Aperta 300 stand underneath the ALU plate. The Aluminium no longer rings like crazy. 
 
The top shelf of my network rack, which holds my ERs is also isolated from the rack by using 3 Townshend Audio Seismic Pods, which do a pretty good job of dealing with the seismic wave issue. I'm kind of using the Pods in a similar manner to your use of the roller bearings.
 
I'm doing a bit of experimenting at the moment, though eventually I need to clean up the cables once I have settled on a final support system for both of my ER's, as I until I take care of cable dressing, I may be causing some "mechanical shorts", reducing the effectiveness of the "anti vibration/heat absorbing/shielding" platforms.
 
Three things I have noticed in my testing over last few weeks (for platform under my ERs):
1)  Black. Painting the Aluminium black changed the temperature of the ERs from hot, to just warm.
2) PRAT. Placing the IsoAcoustics Aperta 300 stand under the Aluminium plate got rid of the Aluminium from ringing, and Pace, Rhythm and Timing improved.
3) Raised Soundstage, more articulate bass (and the other usual stuff that the Townshend Audio Seismic Pods bring benefits for). I was thinking of the line you wrote "Unfortunately there is a correlation that the oscillators with the lowest phase noise also have the highest sensitivity to seismic waves, so measures like these can become quite important for very high quality digital systems.", and wanted to provide an ideal environment for the ERs by taking care of seismic issue, so used the Pods.
 
Just my thoughts, Townshend Audio Seismic Pods do a better job in the vertical plane, IsoAcoustics do a great job especially in the lateral plane, the use of Aluminium (which no longer rings due to IsoAcoustics), and then painting the Aluminium black, all brought beneficial changes. I think it has a special synergy.
 
For underneath my JS-2, I tried Black 10mm Aluminium plate on top of an IsoAcoustics stand, did not notice any real change. Its the ERs which like really benefited from the support system described above.

"

Edited December 15, 2020 by Duke40
edited to improve clarity

[HumanMedia]

Finisar FTLF1321P1BTL-HW SFPs burn in update. 
Now I am over the 10 day continuous burnin hump, connecting a Sonore Optical Module to the EtherRegen, in short I do like these better than the PlanetTechs.

 

The midrange is slightly more natural and warmer. Lower treble a little better. Piano sound more realistic. Lower bass is slightly more extended, more like a hardwired Cat ethernet connection. Plus the soundstage is wider. All up these things together are a good upgrade from the PlanetTechs and I don’t want to go back.

@RussB if you still use the PlanetTechs, you might want to try these.

its given me the confidence to go to the next level. OpticalRendu purchased and the EtherRegen is  now B to A between router and OpticalRendu.

PS both of these SFP needed a solid burnin and despite being from different manufacturers had the same audible pattern of burnin. That is they start neutral but with slightly unnatural treble. The treble gets worse over 9 days. Around the 10 day mark the treble and low bass sound very rolled off for a couple of days (!?) then the treble and bass slowly normalise over the following days. Pretty odd but now I just accept it.

Edited December 17, 2020 by HumanMedia

[richardloh]

Hi,

 

I run wireless mesh node powered by zerozone 12v for ethernet to my Antipodes ex+cx stack via acoustic revive tripleC lan cables.

Will added ER between the node to Antipodes CX used as server improves the SQ for what it does and how so ?

Many thanks in advance.

Cheers.

Richard

[Snoopy8]

3 hours ago, richardloh said:

I run wireless mesh node powered by zerozone 12v for ethernet to my Antipodes ex+cx stack via acoustic revive tripleC lan cables.

 

Will added ER between the node to Antipodes CX used as server improves the SQ for what it does and how so ?

@dbastin and @Stereophilus are Antipodes users who own the ER.

 

If the Zerozone 12v PSU and Acoustic Revive TripleC lan cable made a difference (how so?), then it is likely that the ER + a PSU will improve things further.  

[dbastin]

7 hours ago, richardloh said:

Will added ER between the node to Antipodes CX used as server improves the SQ for what it does and how so ?

 

3 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

@dbastin and @Stereophilus are Antipodes users who own the ER

The short answer is ... most probably Yes ...

 

... unless you're very fortunate like Stereophilius who has a freakin awesome system which includes a Mola Mola endpoint that is pretty well immune to upstream network according to his experience.  I'd guess that is a very rare situation.

 

I'd guess my situation is more common in that my Devialet Pro is not immune, so my ethernet system has evolved to be quite elaborate. 

 

When I put ER upstream of EX (as roon server/core), there was a clear improvement -overall, not just preferable sound qualities.

 

Do your gear justice and address these:

 

- Wifi is inferior, generally. 

- The zerozone and its power cord are a weak link. 

- The mesh device will be generating noise too.

 

ER will help, but there is more to gain.

 

For example, my ER is presently between EX and Devialet Pro (that is, between Core and renderer), with $4k of LPS, power cord and Ethernet cables connected to it ... and even so, changing the power cord on the router's LPS to another equivalent value cord made an obvious improvement.

 

Enjoy the rabbit warren, one hole at a time.  

[HumanMedia]

On 16/12/2020 at 1:05 AM, Duke40 said:

I have been performing some more experimenting with ERs, with focus on heat absorption, shielding and vibration/resonance control (considering its effects on oscillators, clocks).

You have motivated me to do the same.

 

Where did you get these from?

IsoAcoustics Aperta 300 stand

Black 10mm Aluminium plate

Townshend Audio Seismic Pods

 

Was it from Australian suppliers?

What other vibration controls do you find effective?