buddyev Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Ok, I know coupling and isolation have been discussed before but I’m a bit dullwitted and need some clarification. My speakers ( B&W 805 standmounts) are on spikes on hardwood floor boards with 5 ct coins protecting the timber - so they are coupled to the floor. I’m getting quite a bit of resonance through the boards - it’s not bad, the floor is really solid and tbh the bass is pretty nice, but it has to be compromising the speakers and the component rack. So a tweak is in order. I think I’m correct in assuming, in short, that coupling gives the speaker solidity and stability and therefore image precision isolation stops the vibes and resonance running amok. So: 1. if I put the speakers on spikes on top of and therefore coupled to a slab which is in turn isolated from the floor with rubber pads will I get benefits of both coupling and isolation, or do they just compromise each other? 2. Supposing this works, in theory which will give me the most benefit, a plinth with greater mass - ie a concrete paver - or will something relatively lightweight like a bamboo chopping board or piece of timber benchtop work as well. I’m assuming the more mass the better. Thoughts? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakabatou Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I'm no expert, but I did see a video from Dynaudio that addresses this issue. They suggested all or nothing - that is, all isolation or all coupling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telecine Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Minds will differ on this. My view is to couple speakers to the floor and isolate and decouple stereo components. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, Telecine said: Minds will differ on this. My view is to couple speakers to the floor and isolate and decouple stereo components. Can be good but if you have a floating floor on separate levels, well..., all hell breaks loose. I am thinking we might be at this stage.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telecine Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 1 minute ago, bzr said: Can be good but if you have a floating floor on separate levels, well..., all hell breaks loose. I am thinking we might be at this stage.. Different issue I suspect (marital harmony). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) I found my best result was from coupling to bamboo boards via spiked stands (ML-1 standmount speakers) and those Bamboo boards isolated from the floor using the rubber anti-vibration blocks sold in Bunnings, improved clarity and imaging without any negatives i could perceive. Different materials used will give different results... ymmv Edited February 3, 2019 by Muon N' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 40 minutes ago, buddyev said: Ok, I know coupling and isolation have been discussed before but I’m a bit dullwitted and need some clarification. Clarification, Russ - many people need! (Not just oldies like you. ) 40 minutes ago, buddyev said: My speakers ( B&W 805 standmounts) are on spikes on hardwood floor boards with 5 ct coins protecting the timber - so they are coupled to the floor. With 5c coins under the points ... you're not 100% coupled (you'd need the spikes digging into the wood floor, for this). But you're enough coupled to get resonance from the floorboards - 100% coupled would simply give you more resonance. Which is not a good thang! 40 minutes ago, buddyev said: I’m getting quite a bit of resonance through the boards - it’s not bad, the floor is really solid and tbh the bass is pretty nice, but it has to be compromising the speakers and the component rack. So a tweak is in order. I think I’m correct in assuming, in short, that coupling gives the speaker solidity and stability and therefore image precision isolation stops the vibes and resonance running amok. Agreed! 40 minutes ago, buddyev said: So: 1. if I put the speakers on spikes on top of and therefore coupled to a slab which is in turn isolated from the floor with rubber pads will I get benefits of both coupling and isolation, or do they just compromise each other? I agree with your thinking. The biggest issue IMO is what to use for isolation? rubber pads - cheap, yes ... but not ideal, IMO. a UK spkr mfr makes some 'isolation stands'; I suspect these would work very well - but they are not cheap! springs would probably be good - they'd need to be fairly stiff, so that they are, say, 50% compressed (to allow some more movement for the isolation effect). best of all, IMO, would be 'roller blocks' under the slab. These are basically ball bearings sitting in a shallow bowl - various people make them ... out of either ceramic ... or stainless steel. 40 minutes ago, buddyev said: 2. Supposing this works, in theory which will give me the most benefit, a plinth with greater mass - ie a concrete paver - or will something relatively lightweight like a bamboo chopping board or piece of timber benchtop work as well. I’m assuming the more mass the better. Thoughts? I suggest a plinth with more mass does a better job than one with less mass - so use a concrete slab from Bunnings ... rather than a bamboo chopping board from IKEA. And if WAF is an issue - a nicely polished and oiled 30mm thick slate plinth rather than a concrete paver. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 1 hour ago, buddyev said: I think I’m correct in assuming, in short, that 1. coupling gives the speaker solidity and stability and therefore image precision 2. isolation stops the vibes and resonance running amok Most people dramatically overestimate #1. Forget #1 and apply #2 if you need to solve a problem. Some people say apply #2 as it will always improve speaker performance. 1 hour ago, buddyev said: So: 1. if I put the speakers on spikes on top of and therefore coupled to a slab which is in turn isolated from the floor with rubber pads will I get benefits of both coupling and isolation No. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Townsend Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I have my R700s coupled to a piece of 20mm composite stone, that is issolated from the floorboards by bunnings pads.I have also made spring issolators out of water auto pump seals and few other bits.They go under my TT. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyev Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) There’s no doubt I’m getting a bit of energy draining into the floorboards - listening to some Charlie Haden bass playing today and it was very obvious - so I think isolation is going to be worth a go. I’ll try the Bunnings rubber vibration pads first, then add some pavers. It’s cheap enough to try the various options to see what works and prove the concept. Obviously I will have to have the brains trust (or is that the ears trust) to adjudicate. @andyr Edited February 3, 2019 by buddyev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyev Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 32 minutes ago, Big Nads said: I have my R700s coupled to a piece of 20mm composite stone, that is issolated from the floorboards by bunnings pads. I have also made spring issolators out of water auto pump seals and few other bits. They go under my TT. These TT springs are impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telecine Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Have you tried filling the stands with sand or Garnet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Telecine said: Different issue I suspect (marital harmony). no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyev Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 53 minutes ago, Telecine said: Have you tried filling the stands with sand or Garnet? No I haven’t, but I don’t think that’s going to help with the resonance into the floorboards is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telecine Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Just now, bzr said: no Ok then, lucky you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telecine Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Just now, buddyev said: No I haven’t, but I don’t think that’s going to help with the resonance into the floorboards is it? Yes it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt301 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 @buddyev I know you’re looking for a cheap solution and I don’t have one. I do have a similar situation with 45kg speakers on a floating floor. Adding IsoAcoustic Gaia II feet made a significant improvement to the sound quality. Of all the tweaks and products I’ve tried, this is only one I can say that of. They’re not cheap though. BTW I have no financial interest in IsoAcoustic nor does anyone I know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 4 hours ago, buddyev said: I’m a bit dullwitted I got as far as this and nodded me head in agreement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundscape Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Russ, in your situation I think you need isolation. Coupling generally only works when you have a solid base to build off, like a concrete floor. Some folks who live on suspended timber floors go so far as to build brick piles under their gear from the sub-floor ground level. Crazy! I am in the process of designing a properly isolated and damped hi-fi rack system with acoustically engineered off the shelf materials. I expect to have a lot of left over isolation "material" which I would be happy to send you enough for your purposes. Gratis of course. It will be a few weeks before I have it, but if you're interested in trying it out, shoot me a pm and we'll work out the details. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) The Bamboo/anti vibration block combo benefited my system and It's on a concrete floor. Benefited 2x friends systems and those are on normal wood floors. Edit: regarding speaker/floor isolation. Edited February 3, 2019 by Muon N' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Gale Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Concrete paver with rubber pads under it and spikes onto the paver . Been proven that concrete is surprisingly resonate, hence the rubber to decouple it . Cheap to try , Clarke rubber and Bunnings can't go wrong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I suggest that seeing as these materials are cheap, try those recommended and find what works best for you I tried a few materials including Concrete Pavers, Sand Stone Pavers and Bamboo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyev Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Luc said: I got as far as this and nodded me head in agreement. I,ve just thought of a better use for those rubber pads. Nurse ... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chill3 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I just got some of these for use on a wooden floor and they are very good - energy transmission to the floor is noticeably less, yet speakers are still held "solid" https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/loudspeaker-rack-decoupling-and-isolation/products/cone-spike-decoupling-glider This is for Dynaudio Special 40s on Dynaudio Stand 20 filled with Garnet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zydeco Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 On 03/02/2019 at 2:16 PM, buddyev said: I think I’m correct in assuming, in short, that coupling gives the speaker solidity and stability and therefore image precision isolation stops the vibes and resonance running amok. On 03/02/2019 at 3:47 PM, davewantsmoore said: Most people dramatically overestimate #1. Forget #1 and apply #2 if you need to solve a problem. Some people say apply #2 as it will always improve speaker performance. I'm in a similar situation - speakers situated on a suspended wood floor and can feel the floor vibrate when music has strong bass tracks. The idea of isolation makes sense to me but it does assume that the driver is the speakers to stands to floor as opposed to the floor-boards being driven by the airborne vibrations. Is this likely to be true? On 03/02/2019 at 6:43 PM, jt301 said: @buddyev I know you’re looking for a cheap solution and I don’t have one. I do have a similar situation with 45kg speakers on a floating floor. Adding IsoAcoustic Gaia II feet made a significant improvement to the sound quality. Of all the tweaks and products I’ve tried, this is only one I can say that of. They’re not cheap though. BTW I have no financial interest in IsoAcoustic nor does anyone I know. Are the Gaia "squishy" - so as to decouple the floor from the speaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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