Magnepan Owners & Discussion Thread

[andyr]

9 hours ago, Gary janezic said:

Aren’t full range pure ribbons troublesome?

 

Apogees certainly were because they dropped to low resistance - killing most amps. 

 

Quote

I think this is the reason Maggie’s stick to quasi ribbon.

 

Eerrhh, no, Gary.  Magnepan invented the planar magnetic speaker - which was wire (first) and then foil ... glued to a mylar sheet, with a magnet array behind it.  So that's what they stick with.  They then added a pure ribbon tweeter for the MG-III ... and I guess Apogee liked the idea and copied it for other drivers - which was why Magnepan sued and drove Apogee out of business.

 

Andy

 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by andyr

[ghost4man]

21 hours ago, Big Dog RJ said:

Yes, correct the price point on the Avox is over the top. Even with what I saw and heard, I can never justify that price range in terms of hi-fi... No way. 

 

The build quality is exquisite, the materials used are second to none, the stands alone with 4 adjustable Stainless Steel feet cost 10 grand. Then the frame is housed in sort of titanium alloy using 6 different alloys to vacuum bond all elements, hence no solder joints anywhere and the list goes on... But still I cannot think why at such prices. 

 

I'm trying to place in the labour costs plus materials, which would amount to a fair bit but overall pricing clearly exceeds the actual cost that goes into production, I'm thinking. 

 

This is a product not so much for quality sound but also the prestige in owning luxurious items, such as Tiffany diamonds and nothing else. There's a big demand for this kind of name, prestige, ego... That seems to emerge in south east Asia, especially HK & Spore, hence this is clearly where the main distributors are based, although production comes from Italy and Greece. 

 

Anyway, to those who can and want to afford, why not. 

 

But trust me, the Maggies and other, panels, such as stats, provide far more value in terms of overall performance and musicality within affordable means.

I would certainly stick with that even if I had the means to divulge in ridiculous expenditure.

Cheers and enjoy those panels!

RJ 

@Big Dog RJ

 

Just for some added perspective have a look at this thread and in particular the photos of the revamped 3.7s.

 

Just remember this revamp is DIY. So when I hear talk of 10k for the stands on the Botticelli's and then compare that to what has been achieved in those photos I have to shake my head. 

 

Increasing price in an attempt to add prestige seems to be the MO for these high end companies. 

 

 

[Ittaku]

19 minutes ago, andyr said:

Magnepan invented the planar magnetic speaker - which was wire (first) and then foil ... glued to a mylar sheet, with a magnet array behind it.  So that's what they stick with.  They then added a pure ribbon tweeter for the MG-III ... and I guess Apogee liked the idea and copied it for other drivers - which was why Magnepan sued and drove Apogee out of business.

By the way Andy, I've been reading Martin Colloms' High Performance Speakers reference book and he still only calls the tweeter a true ribbon in the Apogees since the bass driver is perimeter clamped. What do you understand by the term true ribbon?

 

[Guest Music monster]

I’m Confused.they were not pure ribbons either.gary the music monster

[ghost4man]

Guys, 

 

Historically magnepan speakers came with wire. A good example of the difference between wire and TRUE ribbon can be found in my IIIAS. 

 

For the bass and mid range it consisted of wire which was typically heavier and thicker for the bass with more "runs" than the mid which was thinner. 

 

The HF is where things went very different in design with the advent of the TRUE RIBBON which is very narrow and thin and quite literally looks like the ribbon you would use to type up presents with only it wouldn't serve that purpose as it is very thin and weak. 

 

The quasi ribbon that magnepan uses is very different to the true ribbon. My thinking is that they make reference to quasi to build on the hype of the true ribbon tweeters. 

[Ittaku]

It seemed to me the distinction between true and quasi-ribbon was whether it was freely suspended or clamped on the sides. The Apogees are aluminium bound to kapton film whilst the maggies are bound to mylar. Neither are pure aluminium, not even in their true ribbon components.

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

Does it matter?

[Guest Music monster]

Can a true pure ribbon be used for bass, midrange.? Gary the music monster

[Addicted to music]

12 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Does it matter?

No!

[Ittaku]

14 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Does it matter?

Yes.

For dick comparisons.

[Guest Music monster]

So there’s no such thing as a pure ribbon speaker.Maggie’s are ribbon speakers than.gary the music monster 

 

 

 

[ghost4man]

4 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Yes.

For dick comparisons.

Not being rude but it should be obvious that it does. To answer Gary's question I believe the bass extension is supposed to be phenomenal on the Botticelli with the ribbons. Not having seen the physical design I can't really comment on how they achieve this. 

[sir sanders zingmore]

13 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Yes.

For dick comparisons.

Why?

serious question 

[ghost4man]

2 minutes ago, Gary janezic said:

So there’s no such thing as a pure ribbon speaker.Maggie’s are ribbon speakers than.gary the music monster 

 

 

 

Gary it depends what you mean by ribbon. 

 

I think that Magnepan like any company out there play somewhat fast and loose with their descriptions to give the impression that Maggie's are ribbon speakers. To be perfectly accurate they use a material of varying lengths and thickness which they either glue onto the Mylar in the presence of an array of magnets or they suspend and glue between magnets in a cage for the tweeter. It's possible you could and I've heard it done you could get Al foil from your kitchen, cut it to size and use that as a tweeter depending upon resistance. How successful that is I don't know. 

[Ittaku]

Just now, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Why?

serious question 

Look harder at my original answer. The real answer is below it...

[Guest Music monster]

I mean pure ribbon like the Maggie’s tweeter but used for bass and midrange,nothin but the ribbon gary the music monster

 

 

 

[Addicted to music]

13 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

It's possible you could and I've heard it done you could get Al foil from your kitchen, cut it to size and use that as a tweeter depending upon resistance. How successful that is I don't know. 

It has been done, and yes successful, it’s a successful substitute depending on the thickness.  Then you have to get that shape into it, that’s the hard part without damaging. 

[Addicted to music]

15 minutes ago, Gary janezic said:

I mean pure ribbon like the Maggie’s tweeter but used for bass and midrange,nothin but the ribbon gary the music monster

 

 

 

Nothing beats bass drivers like cones.  

You cannot expect ribbons to extend that far!  Ribbons are only good for HF to mids, anything below this is a waste of time regardless of what BS google search comes up and what exotic expense, 

Ive pushes the lower limits on my set of ribbons and I’ve found that they do not give that impact that cones give you. Then you reach the limit in what they do! 

 

[Addicted to music]

40 minutes ago, Gary janezic said:

So there’s no such thing as a pure ribbon speaker.Maggie’s are ribbon speakers than.gary the music monster 

 

 

 

It’s all to do with terminology and the methods they use in the design,  different variations....different marketing!   

Just remember that ribbons are just that via some metal conductor that’s usually taxing on amplifier demands, hence the reason I’m getting out! 

[andyr]

3 hours ago, Ittaku said:

By the way Andy, I've been reading Martin Colloms' High Performance Speakers reference book and he still only calls the tweeter a true ribbon in the Apogees since the bass driver is perimeter clamped. What do you understand by the term true ribbon?

 

 

Verrry innnteerrrressssting, Con (maybe you're too young to remember "Laugh In" )??

 

My understanding of a "true ribbon" is a pleated length of aluminium foil like:

• 3-way Maggie tweeters are made of
• the ribbon speakers which your mate Trev used to make, and
• the Ambiance ribbon speakers.

 

So I'm surprised to find the main Apogee driver is not this - but a bonded conductive film ... so not much different to Maggies!   Maybe that's why Magnepan were able to win their patent case against Apogee?

 

Andy

 

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

Look harder at my original answer. The real answer is below it...

I don’t know which post you are referring to. 

Not to worry. 

 

[Guest Music monster]

So there’s no such thing as a true full range ribbon only speakers. I’m still confused gary the music monster

[Guest Music monster]

I am new to this technology after all I am a horn speaker enthusiast and have being all my life.i own the entire klipsch heritage line of speakers. They give me enjoyment in music second to none, there not high quality in anyway but I just enjoy there sound tremendously.i bought the 30.7s because I was after something completely different that delivered a much higher quality sound.i fort they were the best way to go.gary the music monster

[Big Dog RJ]

Just a quick note on the Avox ribbons. From what I saw and heard, approx 45 mins worth...  Now I understand why JV of TAS needs to spend more time with these. 

 

It was as if this thing had been designed with three speakers in one. From the first note, it calls Apogee's, then it has the speed of stats (lightening fast) with more heft & weight, and then the transients sound like the Analysis ribbons, and the dynamics sound like the Avantgarde horns, they're forced and jumps right at you! Leaving you on edge... I couldn't quite relax to it but what I heard was extraordinary! It was not the usual Maggie or something sound, that's quite easy to distinguish. Whether or not this is accurate or right, I wouldn't know simply because it was very far from the norm, and this is the main reason why JV was somewhat confused, hence he requires more time with them. 

 

I read his notes and agree, also based on that Maggie true ribbon tweeter that sometimes tends to operate on a totally different plain. It's not Magnepan's fault it's just the nature of the ribbon tweeter. Over the decades magnepan has tried to improve this aspect by adjusting cross-over points, and they have come close to near perfection each model more so on the 30.7's. But there still is a very slight area of integration issues if you want to be pedantic. Whereas the Avox and Apogee's didn't quite have this issue other than Apogee's being very inefficient and temperamental.

 

Then again, I sincerely think there's really no point in trying to criticise every design, in which case might as well design our own speskers! 

 

Like Con, well done mate! 

 

I would just appreciate whatever it is, may it be quasi,  Daisy or lazy ribbon  who cares! As long as it delivers the enjoyment of recorded music! 

Cheers to all, and goodnight

RJ 

[Addicted to music]

8 hours ago, Gary janezic said:

So there’s no such thing as a true full range ribbon only speakers. I’m still confused gary the music monster

You have to asked this question Gary,  why do so many Maggie owners use a cone driver for a sub?  And that includes @andyr  Even when Bill Maclean does his demonstration he does it with a sub, now he’s been pushed by Magnaplanar to sell there DWM Bass Panel.    In the last show in  Melb a few years now Bill was using 2 of these on a pair of 1.7.   When you get on the phone he’s pushing hard to get the numbers of sale for the DWM.  I’ve also heard the Apagees many years ago,  you can’t possible ask these to do what a cone does for LF., if you do you’re just kidding yourself.