Marantz AV8805. Worth waiting for?

[TP1]

2 hours ago, Kaynin said:

 

Are you talking both 2 channel and multi?

 

I can only comment on @sime's comments, but he said he finds the 8805 a more honest pre than his previous 8801, but the 8801 warmer and lush.

 

Yes, both 2 Channel and Multi.   The 8805 is a warm sounding pre/pro once its run-in properly.  It comes alive at that point.  It should not sound  too different from the 8802A which has been reported  by a few owners as sounding better than the 8801. 

[Perth.hifi]

  Yes, both 2 Channel and Multi.   The 8805 is a warm sounding pre/pro once its run-in properly.  It comes alive at that point.  It should not sound  too different from the 8802A which has been reported  by a few owners as sounding better than the 8801. 

 

Great. So would any of the 7700 series be a huge leap backwards? 

Here's another to throw In the mix, DENONS AVR-X8500H, hows this compare worth SR8012 And AV8805?

 

Is the 8012 the same sound quality as the 8805?

 

 

 

[TP1]

46 minutes ago, Perth.hifi said:

Great. So would any of the 7700 series be a huge leap backwards?

I haven't done  comparisons but I recall  guys on AVS Forum saying that their 8802A sounded better than the 7700 series so the 8805 will do to. But that doesn't mean the 7705  doesn't sound  great  in its own right or that  everyone will agree the price difference is worth it.  

 

1 hour ago, Perth.hifi said:

Here's another to throw In the mix, DENONS AVR-X8500H, hours this compare worth SR8012 And AV8805?

Is the 8012 the same sound quality admin the 8805?

 

You will always get better sound quality with Preamp /processors like the AV8805 and separate power amplifiers over  an AVR with power amps built in like the 8012 and 8500.  The downside is that separates end up costing more.  The power amps alone make a big difference to the sound but not all preamps are equal either.

 

In terms of comparing the  Marantz AV8805 to the preamp-only sections  of the 8012 and 8500, I would be surprised if the the 8805 wasn't clearly better.   I haven't done that particular comparison but it is  the way it has  turned out with previous tests of separate pre/pros to their equivalent AVR's.

[Perth.hifi]

 
You will always get better sound quality with Preamp /processors like the AV8805 and separate power amplifiers over  an AVR with power amps built in like the 8012 and 8500.  The downside is that separates end up costing more.  The power amps alone make a big difference to the sound but not all preamps are equal either.
 
In terms of comparing the  Marantz AV8805 to the preamp-only sections  of the 8012 and 8500, I would be surprised if the the 8805 wasn't clearly better.   I haven't done that particular comparison but it is  the way it has  turned out with previous tests of separate pre/pros to their equivalent AVR's.

Hi Tasso,

Yes I'm only comparing the 8805 against the other pre amp and receivers being used as pre amps, as i already have 9 channels of parasound amplification, just need another 2-4 channels for atmos highs.

The other big thing, id like it's hdmi 2.1. I believe the Marantz 8805 and Denon 8500 allow this via hardware upgrades, but not the others, is this correct?

[TP1]

11 hours ago, Perth.hifi said:

The other big thing, id like it's hdmi 2.1. I believe the Marantz 8805 and Denon 8500 allow this via hardware upgrades, but not the others, is this correct?

 

They are the only ones that I know of currently that are upgradeable to HDMI 2.1.  

 

BTW, 8805 ( and 8500)  will also receive firmware updates for Imax enhanced audio and Apple Siri voice control (in addition to Echo and Alexa).

[Perth.hifi]

 
They are the only ones that I know of currently that are upgradeable to HDMI 2.1.  
 
BTW, 8805 ( and 8500)  will also receive firmware updates for Imax enhanced audio and Apple Siri voice control (in addition to Echo and Alexa).

Is the premium price worth the upgrade ability. Mmmm.. dunno. What will the upgrade board cost?

[cwt]

31 minutes ago, Perth.hifi said:

9 hours ago, Tasso said:

They are the only ones that I know of currently that are upgradeable to HDMI 2.1.  
 BTW, 8805 ( and 8500)  will also receive firmware updates for Imax enhanced audio and Apple Siri voice control (in addition to Echo and Alexa).

Is the premium price worth the upgrade ability. Mmmm.. dunno. What will the upgrade board cost?

If your a gamer and like the frame rate feature VRR ? We have HDR variable frame Metadata now as well as soon E-arc in the current Marantz top of the line

https://www.cnet.com/news/hdmi-2-1-what-you-need-to-know/' 

Quote

Denon even says that it will be offering a ‘hardware and software’ upgrade to HDMI 2.1 at some point (the earliest HDMI 2.1 hardware is expected in September), though this won’t be free.

Any upgrade too will entail sending your component away and going on denon's previous upgrades I would guess 1k + . Al got an audyssey upgrade for his previous AVP A1HD once ; he may be better to ask .

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, Perth.hifi said:

Is the premium price worth the upgrade ability. Mmmm.. dunno. What will the upgrade board cost?

just remember HDMI 2.1 is a little bit of a red herring. while you get the update it is only as useful as the features used and enabled. no one is under any compulsion to enable all the features or even use them with media provided. I would suggest its better to wait and see...

 

46 minutes ago, cwt said:

Any upgrade too will entail sending your component away and going on denon's previous upgrades I would guess 1k + . Al got an audyssey upgrade for his previous AVP A1HD once ; he may be better to ask .

D&M has been very helpful with updates over many years now. and infact even though they never promise as such updates they still flow through. on my denon over the 8-10 years of ownership I received multiple hardware and software updates. the last update was very significant with an entire DSP update and processing as well along with EQ etc. cost some $1250-$1500 installed. but then that was for a $15k rrp unit. on ,y marantz av8802 to make it the av8802A the update cost $299 and was like the denon's a white gloves service.  You order the kit, they tell you when it is in, you drop in one day, pick up the next. Outstanding ! but then I live driving distance from two service locations who were authorised to do this service (note not all service stations offer it). 

 

So for some people very remotely located eg WA, I know one person at least who found it cheaper and less hassle to sell his unit and buy the upgraded unit instead. Note this was also done because not all updates have gone smoothly for D&M and many for instance with denons flagship had issues.

 

I myself am at the point my av8802a is upgraded for all I need. so will just sit out any updates upgrades till see well worth doing. chances are there is a true flagship 9 series marantz coming or another denon A series flagship pre amp which is overdue. As much as marantz make out the 8 series is a flagship. I dont particularly agree the case and considering pieces they gave done in the past eg the denon A series and older gold marantz flagships I do think we are likely to see a true flagship from them at some stage....

[TP1]

On 29/10/2018 at 5:52 PM, Perth.hifi said:

Is the premium price worth the upgrade ability. Mmmm.. dunno. What will the upgrade board cost?

 

The premium price is because the AV8805 is a premium preamp /processor - the upgrade-ability is a bonus.    If you are looking for something that has all the features of the AV8805  but cheaper,  there isn't one.  But if you  don't want to spend that kind of money, thats fine, there are great alternatives.

[paulrp]

The updates are happening quite often.
A couple of discoveries I have made.
For those running an Oppo 205 into their 8805, use the hdmi v1.4 sound only out of the oppo as that hdmi has an additional master clock and Jitter is reduced and clarity improved.then hdmi into your TV
Also don't put a high powered wireless sender near the oppo or you will have RF contamination !!!
Any one know if the 8805 has theater pass through?
I have successfully gone xlr front left and right through a preamp and switch between 2 channel listening and theater use, works fine.
There is a massive difference in theater use compared to the 8801, the 8805 is managing my 11 channel of Dyns quite impressively.
Can't help but wonder about how much better the card based, 15 chanel Emotiva RMC-1 coming November 15th might be?

[TP1]

18 hours ago, paulrp said:

Any one know if the 8805 has theater pass through?

 

The closest the AV8805 has to full passthrough  for audio  are the "Direct" and "Pure Direct" audio modes.   Marantz states this for direct mode:  

 

"This mode plays back audio as recorded in the source."

 

It is a bit ambiguous  in that it doesn't  clarify whether there is any A/D and D/A  conversion happening for the  analog input signals.  It is likely to be going through digital conversion process however, but perhaps Marantz could confirm one way or an other.  But since the AV8805 uses 32bit conversion, it shouldn't matter too much. 

[betty boop]

18 hours ago, paulrp said:

Any one know if the 8805 has theater pass through?

This is a feature fir 2ch gear to integrate into Av systems. Eg my 2ch pure analog pre amp has this option. Most 2ch integrates avd 2ch pre Amps come with option. Has no relevance to an Av pre 

 

if wanting to to eliminate all digital processing that is impossible for digital source on Av gear. For analog source you have to turn off a multitude of post processing look at main screen make sure none engaged.

 

All denon and Marantz gear going back ten years have used analog volume stage. Just gets better as go up. The av8805 will be at pinnacle in Av range and alike av8801 and av8802 prior will actually find very decent on analog source.

[paulrp]

When Using a high quality 2 channel balanced anolog pre amp, there are a few possibilities, even when you don't have theater bypass on your pre,
just go into it with with xlrs from your sorce and set the volume of the pre amp to 78 on a scale of 1 as to 100 on your volume, this constitutes 0 db gain and acts as pass through and then use the volume from the source.
Or
Set the sauce to fixed and use the superior volume control from your pre amp, you may be able to set the volume for when it turns on so your volume isn't to loud when it turns on next, but if you are not listening above 80 db you shouldn't have a problem.
Tape input acts as another pass through so with the 8805 into that from its speaker xlr outputs, volume control remains with Marantz.
The pre switches between the source- eg. oppo 205 and the theater in from the 8805.
Yes an extra component in the system, hopefully for even better control, better volume control and better imaging.
A 11 chanel rig with a two channel reference listener where you don't even turn the 8805 processor on. Minimal digital and not changing at the marantz from anolog back to digital and then back to anolog as well.

[Kaynin]

23 hours ago, paulrp said:

Can't help but wonder about how much better the card based, 15 chanel Emotiva RMC-1 coming November 15th might be?
 

 

Better?  I wouldn't hold your breath...

[Kaynin]

5 hours ago, Tasso said:

 

It is a bit ambiguous  in that it doesn't  clarify whether there is any A/D and D/A  conversion happening for the  analog input signals.  It is likely to be going through digital conversion process however, but perhaps Marantz could confirm one way or an other.

 

I thought that was the difference between the Direct and Pure Direct, Pure Direct has no conversion?  Nonetheless, for purists this still acts as a filter.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Kaynin

[paulrp]

 
Better?  I wouldn't hold your breath...

With the Rmc-1 almost twice the price, you would expect better.
The RMC-1 is full balanced all the way through the Marantz is only as such at the rear of the unit.
Emotiva took so long to get it to the market, maybe they have this one right ??
Though the Marantz has excellent hdmi hand shake and everything works.

[TP1]

1 hour ago, Kaynin said:

 

I thought that was the difference between the Direct and Pure Direct, Pure Direct has no conversion?  Nonetheless, for purists this still acts as a filter.

 

Pure direct disables unused electronics to reduce possibility of interference.

[Perth.hifi]

Hi guys, i just want a improvement from the av8801, if the av7705 is leaps ahead im happy. I think buying a flagship model is buying a new car, as soon as you walk out the door you have lost heaps..

SR8012, WILL will this sound better than av8801

[betty boop]

5 minutes ago, Perth.hifi said:

Hi guys, i just want a improvement from the av8801, if the av7705 is leaps ahead im happy. I think buying a flagship model is buying a new car, as soon as you walk out the door you have lost heaps..

I dont think n av770X is leaps ahead of a av8801 I am not sure what makes think that ?

5 minutes ago, Perth.hifi said:

SR8012, WILL will this sound better than av8801

one is an AVR one is a av pre amp.... not to say AVRs can make good av pre amps.... but I wuld suggest the av pre amp coupled with amps will out run the avr any day of week....

[Kaynin]

12 minutes ago, Tasso said:

 

Pure direct disables unused electronics to reduce possibility of interference.

 

Yeah I contacted Marantz some time ago about the signal path of Pure Direct mode and was told it uses an analogue path - they sent me the electronic schematic to highlight this.  Having said that - my inquiry wasn't about the 8805, so I don't want to assume anything in this case.

[Perth.hifi]

one is an AVR one is a av pre amp.... not to say AVRs can make good av pre amps.... but I wuld suggest the av pre amp coupled with amps will out run the avr any day of week....

Cool. Thought I'd i use the AVR as a preamp, and power only the atmos highs, assumed the circuitry and processing in three sr8012 would if not equal, be better than a superseded 8801.. am i totally off course in thinking so. Does anyone in Perth have AV8805 Or AV7704 i can demo? Surely newer DACS in newer models must be better than a older 8801? I'd assume that even thou 77 series is lower, it's still years newer....

[betty boop]

18 minutes ago, Perth.hifi said:

22 minutes ago, al said:

one is an AVR one is a av pre amp.... not to say AVRs can make good av pre amps.... but I wuld suggest the av pre amp coupled with amps will out run the avr any day of week....

Cool. Thought I'd i use the AVR as a preamp, and power only the atmos highs, assumed the circuitry and processing in three sr8012 would if not equal, be better than a superseded 8801.. am i totally off course in thinking so. Does anyone in Perth have AV8805 Or AV7704 i can demo? Surely newer DACS in newer models must be better than a older 8801? I'd assume that even thou 77 series is lower, it's still years newer....

these things are more than their $2 dac chips. its all in the implementation. have a peep under the hood of the pre amp and all the discrete circuitry, analog stages, power supply etc. vs what get for pre amp in the avr. not to say the pre amp in the avr is rubbish it will certainly be better than the pre amp in lower level AVRs. 

 

the reason you would go for newer av processors will be for atmos, uhd handling. and if buying processor they cost what they do for reason. if cant afford the newer processor get the older 8 series one  they are capable of stunning results. I personally wouldn't go back from 8 series to a 7 series. 

[cwt]

11 minutes ago, paulrp said:

With the Rmc-1 almost twice the price, you would expect better.
The RMC-1 is full balanced all the way through the Marantz is only as such at the rear of the unit.
Emotiva took so long to get it to the market, maybe they have this one right ??
Though the Marantz has excellent hdmi hand shake and everything works.

Theres always the RMC2 for those who don't need any expansion ports paul [ if you don't have a 25 or 40% off option] and its around 3.8k usd rather than 5k . Indeed  I too wouldn't directly compare the 8505 with the RMC1 as its expansion cards are completely configurable for atmos or electronic xover biamping or subs ' you get the idea .. 

[TP1]

44 minutes ago, Kaynin said:

 

Yeah I contacted Marantz some time ago about the signal path of Pure Direct mode and was told it uses an analogue path - they sent me the electronic schematic to highlight this.  Having said that - my inquiry wasn't about the 8805, so I don't want to assume anything in this case.

 

It's so cool that they use an analog path.  I think it should apply to the AV8805 as well since they would not be breaking new ground  to include it.     

[TP1]

1 hour ago, paulrp said:

With the Rmc-1 almost twice the price, you would expect better.
The RMC-1 is full balanced all the way through the Marantz is only as such at the rear of the unit.
Emotiva took so long to get it to the market, maybe they have this one right ??
Though the Marantz has excellent hdmi hand shake and everything works.

 

RMC-1 looks good on paper  but  it would have to be truly amazing for me to part with that kind of money for an Emotiva.   It  will be priced in the same ballpark as the   Lyngdorf  MP-50 from Denmark.  Lyngdorf have  developed their own patented,  state of the art room equalisation system which has been outperforming Dirac to date.

 

I really hope Emotiva suppress their fondness for  switch mode power supplies for this unit to give it the best chance of enhancing  sound quality..