Guest Hensa Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 So, you think some of the sound you hear is emanating from the space between the speakers? As far as I can tell, that is not what happens. And, if no sound is emanating from that space, what difference does it make what you put there? I assumed that if that space between the speakers is empty, you do get the reflected sound of the front wall which is a first reflection point. Is that not correct?As first reflection points can be deleterious to the sound, you often see diffusers or absorbers placed in that position. This is why I thought having the system there (though further back than the plane of the speaker baffles) might also act in a diffusion capacity.The best systems I've heard had the systems between the speakers at least a foot back from the plane of the speaker baffles. Imaging and soundstage were not at all adversely affected to me ears.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hensa said: The best systems I've heard had the systems between the speakers at least a foot back from the plane of the speaker baffles. Imaging and soundstage were not at all adversely affected to me ears. Agree 100% This is what I have done and it works well for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I think it might be a hard call to make if you hadn't heard system without stuff in between. anyway... a subject that is purely academic for those of us that are constrained in doing it another way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Newman said: So, you think some of the sound you hear is emanating from the space between the speakers? As far as I can tell, that is not what happens. And, if no sound is emanating from that space, what difference does it make what you put there? 17 minutes ago, MC240 said: It doesn't emanate from there it is reflected there.... No it isn't. I think you have got the wrong end of the stick. Assuming speakers are typical (and not omnidirectionals) the only frequencies that go to the front wall are deep bass -- and their wavelengths are so long that the hifi equipment and its rack is essentially invisible to them, in acoustic terms. Those low frequencies are not what makes the soundstage anyway. Mid and high frequencies do, and they spray (beam) forward from the speakers and the beam angle is not so wide as to involve the hifi rack. The soundstage itself is almost entirely due to the direct sound from the speakers to the listener, with nearest side walls having an effect, and everything else pretty much being general reverberation. @Hensa the first reflection points are the side walls (critical) and ceiling and floor (less critical). The front wall is a second reflection point for sound that fires forward from the speakers, reflects off the wall behind the listener, traverses the full length of the room and second-reflects off the wall behind the speakers. Room treatments often put heavy absorbtion on both ends of the room to dampen bass ringing. Edited September 19, 2017 by Newman grammar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hensa Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) Thanks @Newman - always happy to be educated. I had based my comments on this calculator where the front wall is treated as a first reflection point in the same way as the side and rear wall. Is this only of relevance for a dipole or omnidirectional speaker? http://www.acoustic.ua/forms/calculator4.en.html Edited September 19, 2017 by Hensa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 My big black fugly screen helps the music when I am watching Two Against Nature, or The Dance or Start Making Sense, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 My big black fugly screen helps the music when I am watching Two Against Nature, or The Dance or Start Making Sense, David. Umm. Ok. Enjoy.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 @Hensa quite right, the diagram maps the location of a first reflection path, but as I said it would be a bass frequency reflection and not relevant to soundstaging -- and a hifi kit in its way would appear invisible to its long wavelengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest m_james Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Newman said: No it isn't. I think you have got the wrong end of the stick. Assuming speakers are typical (and not omnidirectionals) the only frequencies that go to the front wall are deep bass -- and their wavelengths are so long that the hifi equipment and its rack is essentially invisible to them, in acoustic terms. Those low frequencies are not what makes the soundstage anyway. Mid and high frequencies do, and they spray (beam) forward from the speakers and the beam angle is not so wide as to involve the hifi rack. The soundstage itself is almost entirely due to the direct sound from the speakers to the listener, with nearest side walls having an effect, and everything else pretty much being general reverberation. @Hensa the first reflection points are the side walls (critical) and ceiling and floor (less critical). The front wall is a second reflection point for sound that fires forward from the speakers, reflects off the wall behind the listener, traverses the full length of the room and second-reflects off the wall behind the speakers. Room treatments often put heavy absorbtion on both ends of the room to dampen bass ringing. Thanks for clearing that up. Can we close the thread now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 hours ago, m_james said: Thanks for clearing that up. Can we close the thread now? haha well said. Not sure if MC240 has got enough FFlyer points up yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joz Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 7 hours ago, Newman said: So, you think some of the sound you hear is emanating from the space between the speakers? As far as I can tell, that is not what happens. And, if no sound is emanating from that space, what difference does it make what you put there? Nope but it reflected travels in more directions than you may think. We can assume you can hear your speakers if your standing behind them? Also it's also a reason many speaker manufacturers pay special attention to the baffle and it's edges due the way the sound travels along the baffle and to the edges. Think foam/felt as fixes before it gets to far. 7 hours ago, MC240 said: It doesn't emanate from there it is reflected there, if you haven't got imaging / sound stage centre stage then in my opinion you've got it all wrong my goal with my system is to have the equipment disappear I'll send someone around! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 8 hours ago, frankn said: In a recording studio they are concentrating on the sound not on spatial cues/effects. I believe that comes later with the final mastering. Sorry - I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you on this point. Multi-track mixing to a stereo master is all about such things and they use the studio monitors for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Flies Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 4 hours ago, m_james said: Thanks for clearing that up. Can we close the thread now? Who are you to be calling for the tread to be closed why don't just pull your head in and hit the ignore button . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Flies Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, joz said: Nope but it reflected in in more directions than you may think. We can assume you can hear your speakers if your standing behind them? Also it's also a reason many speaker manufacturers pay special attention to the baffle and it's edges due the way the sound travels along the baffle and to the edges. Think foam/felt as fixes before it gets to far. I'll send someone around! Thanks for your very generous offer joz the world needs more good Samaritans such as yourself. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Was definitely not a case of case closed. If that were the case every thread would be closed as soon as someone agreed with someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSmith Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 On 18/09/2017 at 8:05 PM, MC240 said: I don't get it People must be able to display those pweedy brand badges and bling cables mate. JSmith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest m_james Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 3 hours ago, MC240 said: Who are you to be calling for the tread to be closed why don't just pull your head in and hit the ignore button . Who are you to be calling me a stupid idiot for having my tv and hi-fi rack in between my speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I don't think there is enough heat in this thread. How can we take it up another notch ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Flies Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, m_james said: Who are you to be calling me a stupid idiot for having my tv and hi-fi rack in between my speakers? At no stage did I call you or anyone else an idiot. Edited September 20, 2017 by MC240 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Flies Posted September 20, 2017 Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, Nigel said: I don't think there is enough heat in this thread. How can we take it up another notch ? Thank you for your levity and sense of irony it's greatly appreciated most of the time but amplification is the last the thread needs Edited September 20, 2017 by MC240 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) Not very many systems out in the wild that don't have compromises, mine included no doubt about this, the perfect setup is not easy or often possible for 99% of us. It's rare when I have been in a situation to even come close to having nothing in between my speakers................................................I was scared i might have a Freudian slip and say my ears there Edit: but then again would it be bad in that context? I better quit while I'm behind Edited September 20, 2017 by Muon N' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 I don't get what you don't get MC240. Something about soundstage and racks. I love racks and I like soundstages. A really nice rack is a thing to behold. I've been slapped in the face for beholding some. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 I'm not touching that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blk plastic Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Nigel said: I don't get what you don't get MC240. Something about soundstage and racks. I love racks and I like soundstages. A really nice rack is a thing to behold. I've been slapped in the face for beholding some. Let there be rack, i say.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest m_james Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 4 hours ago, Noum said: I'm not touching that one You can look, just don't touch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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