Denon 103 Owners & Discussion Thread

[ophool]

I have used this cartridge on a Tecnoarm and felt it needed extra mass. I added a piece of sheet lead as a spacer and had the feeling that this was also soaking up some resonances.

I have also tried it, again with additional mass, on an otherwise stock SL1200 with a Sumiko headshell. With a lot of music it seems to work quite well on that, but there are pieces, usually busy, that unsettle it, indicating to me that it needs something a little more substantial to push against.

In a similar vein, though rarely considered so, selection of the loading impedance seems somewhat dependent on the combination arm and cartridge mass.

Variation of the generator load will affect the mechanical resistance of the generating system effectively altering the resistance of the stylus to movement and conversely its need for mass to push against - the object here being to hold the body still whilst the stylus moves.

It is interesting to note that the frequency response plot supplied with each DL-103 is taken with a loading of 1K Ohms.

The normal recommendation for an active step-up seems to be 100 Ohms yet the impedance of the AU-300LC SUT designed for this cartridge will present 470 Ohms load.

ATM I am running it on the Technics @ 470 Ohms and it is generally quite acceptable, though not, I feel, as good as I have heard it on my modded P2/Tecnoarm.

Worth fooling around with mass loading and impedance loading I think and also worth noting that there are setups where this will never be much more than ordinary.

Oh and thanks to TT for kicking off this thread with the rather interesting and tasty looking work of Herr Paulus.

[wood-body]

The wood-body

The best custom-made cartridge for the Denon DL 103 and DL103R.

The magazine LP wrote in its issue 03/2010:

The midrange is much more open and agile than the original and the other custom-made cartridges.

Also the treble is better than the other variants.

The three-dimensionality and the spatial reproduction, is also a compromise in the breezy openness but clearly marked out and clean outlines.

Conclusion: The modification improves the plant model in the area of sound quality, clean, dynamic and spatial reproduction.

You will find more info under www.wood-body.de

[metal beat]

I decided to put the Ebony 103r back in the system. If anything, it sounds better. Its got that 103 PRAT that is so good.

A few months back, I also got my Uwe wood 103r back from ESC and ruby retipped ( thanks jasper). At first sounded like a different animal. bright and peaky. After 10 hours or so, it settle down and now sounds a lot better. Gotta, put that back into the system soon to give a better sound dscription.

Jasper, How does your ESC re-tip 103r sound?

[3G_]

I have a snapped 103R which I nuded up last night ready for a DIy ebony body. I am interested in the ruby rebuild, keen for any recommendations on retipping.

[cheekyboy]

I have my original 103 is in transit at the moment to ESC so I'm keen to hear your review too Jasper. How long do they normally take with them?

Cheers,

Keith

[hgholden]

Keith, I will be interested in this journey.

Andy

I have my original 103 is in transit at the moment to ESC so I'm keen to hear your review too Jasper. How long do they normally take with them?

Cheers,

Keith

[snaggs]

Just FYI, I run a Denon DL-102 on a 12" SME, sounds great and gets rid of surface noise on really old records.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/murraya/DenonMonoPage.htm

[kcc123]

I have been a Denon fan since 1970s. I have an aluminum body 103R which has now been mounted on a Micro Seiki MA 505S tonearm with an additional sub-counterweight. It simply sounds superb and betters a 103D and even a DL304 in comparison.

Aluminum body 103R on a SAEC 308L tonearm

A stock DL 103, on a modified Rega 300, is awaiting installation with the same aluminum body.

DL 103D

[cheekyboy]

Keith, I will be interested in this journey.

Andy

I'll keep you posted Andy. Here's my current 103R..............

Cheers,

Keith

[jaspert]

Keith,

With the new booking systems, it took me 2.5 months to get a Linn Troika rebuilt by ESC so hopefully it will be about the same for your Denon. But with the festive break, yours might just take a bit longer i suspect. Prior to the booking system, it took more than 6 months for the 2 Denons/SPU i sent earlier.

I have about 30 hours on my Midas bodies 103R with ESC sapphire cantilever paratrace stylus now. It's a different thing from the original Denon 103R after all the rework. First 10-15 hours, it did sound a bit bright and peaky but i don't find that an issue now unless the recording is as such. More extended, cleaner high, more dynamic, and tighter bass to my ears. Sounds more like a 1.5-2K LOMC i had. Some might not like the change though.

It's currently on a slate Lenco /T3 Pro linear tracker/silver wired leads to Nighthawk F117 phono. Tried it again last night and it was lovely.

On closer look here , the azimuth is a bit off.:nana

Edited January 9, 2011 by jaspert

[Kid A]

I've got the same blue alloy body as kcc123, and am thinking about sending it off to Soundsmith for a ruby CL and better stylus. For what I am using, I'm hoping this is the most I ever have to spend on a cartridge! The carts 0.3 mv running into my benz Micro PP1 already makes for a healthy source, but I can't help thinking Im missing out on better mids, like Ive been reading about. Fairly pricey mod, but.

Isokinetik on Ebay sell DL103 'stabilisers' that add mass to the stock denon shell, but i bought one to glue to my Supex 900 MKIV which had very poor condition bolt holes, and that sorted it out fantastic! So my supex with boron CL and FGII stylus might be my #1 cart, but Im hoping the 103 will surpass it after the mod, mainly because of the .3 mv outpu, which beats the supex by .1.

So, has anyone heard the DL103 with alloy shell and Soundsmith CL/stylus?

Is there a better retip service?

[The Grif]

While everyone is posting pics of their DL-103s:

Here is my Zu Audio modded DL-103R.

[ATTACH]27765[/ATTACH]

[Kid A]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]27766[/ATTACH]

Here's mine.

[Mikemaxcel]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]27799[/ATTACH]

Mine has a 5mm thick teflon inserted in between and the cartridge is now singing with magical power...

tracking at 2.5g.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Mikemaxcel

[Kid A]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]27799[/ATTACH]

Mine has a 5mm thick teflon inserted in between and the cartridge is now singing with magical power...

tracking at 2.5g.

You've got holes in your rega arm too. Did you do that yourself?

[Tobes]

So, has anyone heard the DL103 with alloy shell and Soundsmith CL/stylus?

Is there a better retip service?

I don't have the alloy shell, but I'm currently using a UWE ebony shell 103R with a SoundSmith ruby cantilever/OCL stylus.

I think it sounds superb and tracking is probably as good as anything I've used. This type of stylus does require careful setup though.

I also have a Uwe Panzerholz 103R.

Prior to getting my ebony 103R retipped, I preferred the panzerholz for its cleaner quicker and more neutral presentation. However, the Panzerholz is now eclipsed by the SS retipped ebony. The SS retipped cartridge is MUCH more transparent than the Panzerholz. If you like to hear back into the soundstage, there is simply no comparison. Room ambiance, fine detail, separation of instruments/vocalists is far better. The SS cartridge sounds far more realistic in the highs on cymbal/bell type sounds and also much more speed/tightness and focus in the bass. In spite of the much improved transparency/speed/focus and detail, the 103R remains a musical and involving cartridge.

I'm betting some people won't like these changes - it does sound dramatically different. FWIW I was a big fan of the 103R without the SS retip. Despite having the Panzerholz 103R setup on my second Phantom armwand, I find it hard now to go back to that cartridge after listening to the SS retipped ebony. YMMV.

Worth noting that I'm currently using a Bobs Devices Cinemag SUT into the MM stage of my ARC SP16. This SUT seems to have a special synergy with the 103R cartridges.

[Kid A]

From what Ive read those cinemags are basically made for the 103.

I think it's time to send mine to Soundsmith, after the advice you have given me, Tobes.

Thanks mate!

I had noticed with the stock tip the bass tends to be a bit "all over the place" compare to my nice Supex cart, that has had a retip from Benz Micro. Time to upgrade!

[Tobes]

From what Ive read those cinemags are basically made for the 103.

I think it's time to send mine to Soundsmith, after the advice you have given me, Tobes.

Thanks mate!

I had noticed with the stock tip the bass tends to be a bit "all over the place" compare to my nice Supex cart, that has had a retip from Benz Micro. Time to upgrade!

Bear in mind that I haven't heard the Expert Stylus retipped 103R - there is some scuttlebutt on the internet suggesting it may be even better than the SS version.

I think ES retip uses a profile similar to the VdH stylus and is supposedly very high quality. Last time I checked the ES retip was slightly cheaper than the SS service.

Having said that, I'm more than happy with my SS cartridge.

'turntable' and 'jaspert' will think this is crazy, but this cartridge reminds me a bit of the Ortofon A90(!!)....but let me explain.

The SS 103R has a similar 'wide open' sound. The soundstage is very wide and has considerable transparency (though from memory the A90 does better with depth and layering), imagery is very sharp but instruments/vocalists still have convincing body and weight. The top end sounds pristine in a similar manner to the A90 (at least in my system - which, BTW, is far from SOTA).

This thing is very quiet in the groove and, like the A90, music and recorded space pops out of this backdrop in a dramatic manner.

You never know what to expect, many vintage recordings which I thought were average at best are brought back to life with great openness, body and presence. I'm not saying everything sounds marvellous, because bad recordings are still presented for what they are - but if there is merit there, this cartridge will find it.

Much of this mirrors my A90 experience (which I owned for about 5-6 months) and I suspect the similar stylus profile may have more than something to do with it. Of course I'm not suggesting the SS 103R is nearly as good as the A90 - but many of it's attributes remind me of that cartridge.

One thing for sure, the prominent bass of the stock 103R is scotched....and I don't think this will be to everyone's liking. This gives less apparent 'slam' on some recordings, but IME the stock cartridge could become somewhat over-bearing (though this could be system dependent). With the SS cartridge bass can be cracking tight and punchy, blowsy, lightweight or anything in-between. Just don't expect everything to have big bass.

Let me repeat again that I found this cartridge to be quite fussy to optimise. It is very sensitive to azimuth, VTF and antiskating changes. I maintain my VTA at close to level, adjusting for different record thicknesses using the Phantom's 'micropoise' level.

[Kid A]

Seems like I have a choice to make, i am still fairly new to MC cartridges, having only ever owned a Denon DL 301 MKII, my supex 900 MKIV and the 103.

Does "fussy to optimise" also translate to "bringing the worst out of the inner groove distortion" I wonder?

[Kid A]

Meanwhile, I am searching and looking at Expert Stylus, along with Garrot brothers, SS and even Benz Micro, who did the job on my Supex and I like that very much.

[Tobes]

Seems like I have a choice to make, i am still fairly new to MC cartridges, having only ever owned a Denon DL 301 MKII, my supex 900 MKIV and the 103.

Does "fussy to optimise" also translate to "bringing the worst out of the inner groove distortion" I wonder?

Definitely not!

Quite the opposite, this cartridge is a great tracker. In this respect it is actually better than my sample of the A90! Of course much depends on the arm being used.

What I'm saying is that to optimise balance, retrieval of detail, recorded space and soundstage symmetry takes some fine adjustment. For this reason it really is best to have an arm that is fully adjustable in all parameters. I found the A90 to be the same.

Having said that, there are many people using the SS 103R in lower end tables/arms (which have limited adjustment) and they seem more than happy. Depends what you're aiming for I guess. As always, YMMV.

[Kid A]

That's definitely what I wanted to hear.

My arm is just a humble modded RB300 though.

With my Supex there is a point in adjusting where it all snaps into focus, that I cant achieve with the stock tipped 103.

This will be my chance to own a proper high end cart for a low (ish) price.

The current spec 103 I have (alloy body, stock everything else) tracks fairly poorly towards the label, but I haven't fiddled with it enough, maybe.

I'm still only new to all this.

Doing something about inner groove anomolies would be one of the major reasons I'd upgrade the CL and tip.

Thanks for the advice!

[Dr Good Vibe]

Gez after reading this thread I'm going to investigate a 103. Very good info guys thanks.

Nude was the bloke when talking things vinyl always had the dirt. RIP mate.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Dr Good Vibe

[Tobes]

That's definitely what I wanted to hear.

My arm is just a humble modded RB300 though.

With my Supex there is a point in adjusting where it all snaps into focus, that I cant achieve with the stock tipped 103.

This will be my chance to own a proper high end cart for a low (ish) price.

The current spec 103 I have (alloy body, stock everything else) tracks fairly poorly towards the label, but I haven't fiddled with it enough, maybe.

I'm still only new to all this.

Doing something about inner groove anomolies would be one of the major reasons I'd upgrade the CL and tip.

Thanks for the advice!

I actually found my stock 103R cartridges to track the inner grooves very well, not in the class of the Ortofon Jubilee, but nothing to complain about. The SS retipped cartridge is definitely a class above, not only at the end of side but on all difficult tracking tasks.

Perhaps you should ask Peter Ledermann at SoundSmith about the differences between his standard line contact stylus and the "optimised contour" line contact (which is what I got).

The latter costs $100 more and I suspect it is the more fussy about setup.

It's possible the standard line contact may be a better match for the Rega arm - or perhaps the ES retip, but I have no experience with that.

[metal beat]

Tobes

How do you like the tubes in your system?