Do amps really make that much of a difference?

[Roumelio.]

If you used an EQ as intended you might just be able to hear even more of a difference.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Roumelio.

[Guest Sime]

@Roumelio. you should hear Iron Maiden's "Fear of the Dark" through a good dac, sounds a hell of a lot different than it ever has given the amount of years I've heard that album. 

[rantan]

13 minutes ago, pete_mac said:

 

Sorry, but if you climbed down from your ivory tower for a few seconds, you might consider that you know absolutely NOTHING about how people on this forum have formed their view on sound quality. You seem to be of the view that people either hold measurements as being sacrosanct and the sole determinant of sound quality, or are one of the great audio unwashed who have no understanding of what is at play here and indulge in Bro Science (as you put it).

 

 

Seems about right Pete.  Trolls do as trolls must, mainly fishing for arguments

Edited July 16, 2017 by rantan

[JimmyiovinE]

3 minutes ago, Roumelio. said:

If you used an EQ as intended you might just be able to hear even more of a difference.

 

If you even need to eq a dac then that must surely tell you something about it's quality. 

[Roumelio.]

This depends on a lot of factors, source, speakers, amp, etc, no one component by itself will make a night and day difference. As they say you're only as good as your weakest link to be honest. I don't listen to a lot of Iron Maiden, but I might just pop that on tonight and have a listen to it. All things considered I just hope its not brick walled to crap on Spotify.

[Roumelio.]

Just now, JimmyiovinE said:

 

If you even need to eq a dac then that must surely tell you something about it's quality. 

 

If you don't think you need to EQ a listening space this should tell everyone else something.

[JimmyiovinE]

I wish Rob Watts from Chord was active on this forum, I'm sure he could easily argue the merits on a 99$ dac vs a 10'000$ dac from a scientific stand point and put a lot of this to bed

Edited July 16, 2017 by JimmyiovinE

[Guest Sime]

@Roumelio. by the way, I never said fear of the dark was a stellar recording, far from it, but what good dacs do to any album, well unless you know the difference, it's hard to explain. 

 

This is is no where at all me being snobby, but what is the best system you've had, to be able at all, to judge the differences between, well, anything?

Edited July 16, 2017 by Sime

[JimmyiovinE]

4 minutes ago, Roumelio. said:

 

If you don't think you need to EQ a listening space this should tell everyone else something.

 

Wait so now where talking about an entire chain and a listening space? I thought you were talking about dacs?

 

i think you just like blowing smoke out your arse

[Roumelio.]

I was talking about one part of the chain that scientifically is proven to make next to zero difference in most of today's devices.

[JimmyiovinE]

1 minute ago, Sime said:

@Roumelio. by the way, I never said fear of the dark was a stellar recording, far from it, but what goods dacs do to any album, well unless you know the difference, it's hard to explain. 

 

This is is no where at all me being snobby, but what is the best system you've had, to be able at all, to judge the differences between, well, anything?

 

I'm also curious as to what he's listened to, I'm going to take a punt and say not much but this being the internet and all who knows.

 

i guarentee he hasn't listened to a Chord Hugo 2 yet but apparently the iphone dac is better. Sorry but I can't even take this guy seriously. Just a troll I think.

[pete_mac]

3 minutes ago, Roumelio. said:

 

If you don't think you need to EQ a listening space this should tell everyone else something.

 

Can I recommend a book to you?

 

http://www.angusrobertson.com.au/books/how-to-win-friends-and-influence-people-miniature-edition-dale-carnegie/p/9780762462018?gclid=CI-96KC2jdUCFZV_vQodZvgOeA

 

I'm not disagreeing with your point (the RIGHT kind of EQing can work wonders) but your delivery is as subtle as a sledgehammer!  

[rantan]

"Mirror, mirror on the wall who knows about audio least of all?"

Edited July 16, 2017 by rantan

[Roumelio.]

6 minutes ago, JimmyiovinE said:

 

I'm also curious as to what he's listened to, I'm going to take a punt and say not much but this being the internet and all who knows.

 

i guarentee he hasn't listened to a Chord Hugo 2 yet but apparently the iphone dac is better. Sorry but I can't even take this guy seriously. Just a troll I think.

 

This is categorical bullshit by now I'm sorry. Play the ball not the man...

 

Thanks.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Roumelio.

[JimmyiovinE]

1 minute ago, Roumelio. said:

I was talking about one part of the chain that scientifically is proven to make next to zero difference in most of today's devices.

 

So next to zero or is it actually zero? Come on man, it's either one or the other. Your saying an iphone dac is the same as every other dac in the market place today. They either have variables and tonality differences or they don't. 

[Roumelio.]

Go back and read those charts please, of course there is some difference. The other thing, sometimes people choose whatever flowery language trifle that they can rattle off the top of their heads to describe non-existent, or perceived things which may not have any benefit.  Moreover, some times those things are detrimental to what a sound engineer would consider neutral sound.

 

That's OK if you like these characteristics and more power to you, but at least be upfront about the facts and stop beating around the bush about it.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Roumelio.

[JimmyiovinE]

2 minutes ago, Roumelio. said:

 

This is categorical bullshit by now I'm sorry. play the ball not the man

 

Thanks.

 

How so? Your coming in here throwing some iphone rubbish around, we're asking what you've actually listened to, to make these comparisons. Then your hammering people trying to explain they can hear a difference just because you can't and some guy on a website measured an iphone dac and you call it the final word.

 

And now all of a sudden your out? The way you come accross is like your trolling or looking for a fight. It's not everyday a person comes into a audio forum and says "hey guys and iphone is better than your $5000 dac" 

 

come on bud, surely you can see from outpr point of view. But if you want to continue the discussion I'm here.

[Roumelio.]

There was no rubbish thrown around buddy, go back and read the page and get back to me and now you're appealing to your own authority as if spending more money and hearing things makes you a better judge of anything. It doesn't work like that...

 

For what it is worth, 3 weeks ago I was sitting around having drinks with Dallas Frasca in Melbourne at a mates 40th birthday party. That same weekend I was sitting in the studio of a certain Melbourne based producer listening to someone who should have done more than have a bit of minor success if he wasn't screwed by Sony/BMG as a teenager. I was listening to lots of expensive studio monitor gear that would make your eyes pop. I've heard it...

 

Tell you another fact, since you like notoriety. I grew up in the back of a transit van, I've got Ian Moss's JMP Marshall stack sitting in my dads living room. I've heard a lot of stuff most people here will never be able to afford in their lives and hung around with people most people would kiss the feet of. It honestly means nothing to me in the sense you're thinking abut it.

 

To be honest? I don't give a stuff. I don't need to play games or troll people on the internet. As Bernard Tomic said "I'm just a little bit bored really..." Why do I need to justify myself to a bunch of nobody e-heros? You can keep pretending your some kind of authority on the internet. I don't need to justify myself, I just exist in the background spaces of important peoples lives. You can keep dreaming that your favorite mates you grew up with as a kid become world notable, and of expensive stuff, I've been there and back again.

 

I don't really care at this point, I have nothing to justify.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Roumelio.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On 7/16/2017 at 4:08 PM, Roumelio. said:

I too am DAC agnostic when it comes to that. But then most devices are that good that you should be DAC agnostic. A simple device such as an iPhone SE or iPhone 6 will put out a ruler flat frequency response curve in any manner of testing which is audible by your ears. The people who buy into $700 DACs are the same people I generally see buying into 100's of dollars worth of monster cables.

 

Whilst I do not, specifically, place a value on a particular DAC, my present DAC cost more than $2,000.00 some 15 years ago. It stacks up quite well today against DACs costing a least as much. Make no mistake: I am quite well known around here as very much a measurements guy, who will ALWAYS question any of the 'snake oil' products promulgated. Filters, power boards, power cables, etc. MY speaker cables cost $4.00/Metre. 

 

DACs, OTOH, can make a substantial difference to a system. A good, multibit DAC can easily surpass a Sigma/Delta DAC and the difference is readily audible (all other things being equal). Measurements will generally reveal only small differences between the two types of DACs, but the ear reveals more. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[evil c]

I was talking about one part of the chain that scientifically is proven to make next to zero difference in most of today's devices.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[JimmyiovinE]

4 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

Whilst I do not, specifically, place a value on a particular DAC, my present DAC cost more than $2,000.00 some 15 years ago. It stacks up quite well today against DACs costing a least as much. Make no mistake: I am quite well known around here as very much a measurements guy, who will ALWAYS question any of the 'snake oil' products promulgated. Filters, power boards, power cables, etc. MY speaker cables cost $4.00/Metre. 

 

DCAs, OTOH, can make a substantial difference to a system. A good, multibit DAC can easily surpass a Sigma/Delta DAC and the difference is readily audible (all other things being equal). Measurements will generally reveal only small differences between the two types of DACs, but the ear reveals more. 

 

Thank you. I knew I wasn't having just a placebo effect, I was literally just sitting there switching my iphone 6 and Hugo 2 back and forth for a while saying to myself "I can definitely hear a major difference here what's going on?" Like is this placebo or am I hearing more? It made me think I'll give it that, but I was never convinced. 

[pete_mac]

15 minutes ago, Roumelio. said:

There was no rubbish thrown around buddy, go back and read the page and get back to me and now you're appealing to your own authority as if spending more money and hearing things makes you a better judge of anything. It doesn't work like that...

 

For what it is worth, 3 weeks ago I was sitting around having drinks with Dallas Frasca in Melbourne at a mates 40th birthday party. That same weekend I was sitting in the studio of a certain Melbourne based producer listening to someone who should have done more than have a bit of minor success if he wasn't screwed by Sony/BMG as a teenager. I was listening to lots of expensive studio monitor gear that would make your eyes pop. I've heard it...

 

Tell you another fact, since you like notoriety. I grew up in the back of a transit van, I've got Ian Moss's JMP Marshall stack sitting in my dads living room. I've heard a lot of stuff most people here will never be able to afford in their lives and hung around with people most people would kiss the feet of. It honestly means nothing to me in the sense you're thinking abut it.

 

To be honest? I don't give a stuff. I don't need to play games or troll people on the internet. As Bernard Tomic said "I'm just a little bit bored really..." Why do I need to justify myself to a bunch of nobody e-heros? You can keep pretending your some kind of authority on the internet. I don't need to justify myself, I just exist in the background spaces of important peoples lives. You can keep dreaming that your favorite mates you grew up with as a kid become world notable, and of expensive stuff, I've been there and back again.

 

I don't really care at this point, I have nothing to justify.

 

I think the above post clarifies a lot. Your opinion > the opinion of others, as you think you are more important and know more via your associations and experience. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Let's flip your last sentence around... why do any of us need to justify our positions to you?

 

 

 

[JimmyiovinE]

18 minutes ago, Roumelio. said:

There was no rubbish thrown around buddy, go back and read the page and get back to me and now you're appealing to your own authority as if spending more money and hearing things makes you a better judge of anything. It doesn't work like that...

 

For what it is worth, 3 weeks ago I was sitting around having drinks with Dallas Frasca in Melbourne at a mates 40th birthday party. That same weekend I was sitting in the studio of a certain Melbourne based producer listening to someone who should have done more than have a bit of minor success if he wasn't screwed by Sony/BMG as a teenager. I was listening to lots of expensive studio monitor gear that would make your eyes pop. I've heard it...

 

Tell you another fact, since you like notoriety. I grew up in the back of a transit van, I've got Ian Moss's JMP Marshall stack sitting in my dads living room. I've heard a lot of stuff most people here will never be able to afford in their lives and hung around with people most people would kiss the feet of. It honestly means nothing to me in the sense you're thinking abut it.

 

To be honest? I don't give a stuff. I don't need to play games or troll people on the internet. As Bernard Tomic said "I'm just a little bit bored really..." Why do I need to justify myself to a bunch of nobody e-heros? You can keep pretending your some kind of authority on the internet. I don't need to justify myself, I just exist in the background spaces of important peoples lives. You can keep dreaming that your favorite mates you grew up with as a kid become world notable, and of expensive stuff, I've been there and back again.

 

I don't really care at this point, I have nothing to justify.

 

How do you establish us a bunch of no bodies e heroes? 

[JimmyiovinE]

1 minute ago, pete_mac said:

 

I think the above post clarifies a lot. Your opinion > the opinion of others, as you think you are more important and know more via your associations and experience. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Let's flip your last sentence around... why do any of us need to justify our positions to you?

 

 

 

 

Yeh this guys riding on some straight internet bullshit now. I was ready to start taking him serious and asked what he's heard to compare and make his claims but seems like someones had to much to drink going off that last bit of his rant

[Roumelio.]

Just now, pete_mac said:

 

I think the above post clarifies a lot. Your opinion > the opinion of others, as you think you are more important and know more via your associations and experience. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Let's flip your last sentence around... why do any of us need to justify our positions to you?

 

 

 

 

1) Quite the opposite really, I said I know of some people, and I might know something, but honestly it doesn't define anything about who or what I am and that kind of nonsense makes me "just a little bit bored really..." Appealing to some kind of self authority or other authority makes me bored, that was the point.

 

 

2) I simply suggested people look at the figures first and then make a decision so they don't by more expensive snake oil just because the latest Hi-Fi magazine said it was a better product because it was more expensive.

 

3) I'm not denying more expensive gear can sound better. I'm saying people sometimes by crap like Yamaha NS-10s for some god unknown reason when they're technically terrible speakers for a lot of money even though they're not what they're made out to be.