TP1 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 So the minutest of adjustments to a microscopic bit of diamond on a metal cantilever that vibrates tiny magnets can make a difference to sound, but these things can't possibly? I think I follow the logic. Any minute difference made to a cartridge/tonearm setup is amplified thousands of times via the phono, preamp etc. and will usually be audible. Whether it is an improvement is another matter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehtcom Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Yes Earle, I must be one of those gullible ones. Glad you have heard the demo and you came to your own conclusion. Much better to have an actual experience rather than just a keyboard. You missed my point guru, It's sales 101. (as you know) People will hear what ever you tell them. Edited June 17, 2015 by ehtcom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The stock graphics of jazz musicians and notes make it tempting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Mustud Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I think SNA needs a complaints department (section).... for those with a passionate desire for complaining, so they can vent to their hearts content :ph34r: Then the rest of use can ignore these threads. We do, Orto, we do. The Politics threads are full of it. Snake oil, I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Mustud Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 You missed my point guru, It's sales 101. (as you know) People will hear what ever you tell them. Is that necessarily a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 We do, Orto, we do. The Politics threads are full of it. Snake oil, I mean. Needs more oil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mello yello Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 We do, Orto, we do. The Politics threads are full of it. Snake oil, I mean. if you were to move (ever so) slightly to the left, you would sound a lot better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hensa Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Well I like to think I have a healthy dose of scepticism about me and that part of me says this is pure gimmickry that wouldn't make an audible difference for the better and certainly would not be worth the $200 asked. On the flip-side, when a respected member like Guru, states that the same crew eeked out a sound to match the best at the Munich Show from a Bose Wave radio, then I'd have to give credence to such a review. I presume this show included an Audio Note room, so it's no small thing for Guru to be putting Bose (plus Synergistic Research tweeks) into the best sound category alongside (presumably) the likes of Audio Note and other esteemed brands. @@guru, can you provide any further information on the items used with the Bose as this would certainly be of interest if the sound can match multiple thousands of dollars systems and maintain the discrete and WAF-friendly form factor. I presume that the Bose Wave radio had different tweeks to the one being discussed here though and would be interested to hear from anyone that has actually heard these specific cartridge add-ons. If a group wanted to do a purchase for roadshow-style trial, I'd certainly be interested in joining (say 5 people @ $40 each, for example). In the interim, I'm going shopping for a Bose Wave! Edited June 17, 2015 by Hensa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yamaha_man Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) I have both the purple haze and blue velvet and they work a treat! Edited June 17, 2015 by yamaha_man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hensa Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I have both the purple haze and blue velvet and they work a treat! Can't see them listed in your signature! Tell us more - what difference do they make to the sound and do they each have a different sound signature? Genuinely intrigued! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yamaha_man Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Can't see them listed in your signature! Tell us more - what difference do they make to the sound and do they each have a different sound signature? Genuinely intrigued! And I am genuinely speaking bullshit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrmax Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) If you take one of these first it might actually work..."Type 'I' PHT adds a holographic ethereal dream like quality to your records while Type 'S' is all about focus and clarity with musicality." Edited June 17, 2015 by murrmax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehtcom Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Well I like to think I have a healthy dose of scepticism about me and that part of me says this is pure gimmickry that wouldn't make an audible difference for the better and certainly would not be worth the $200 asked. On the flip-side, when a respected member like Guru, states that the same crew eeked out a sound to match the best at the Munich Show from a Bose Wave radio, then I'd have to give credence to such a review. I presume this show included an Audio Note room, so it's no small thing for Guru to be putting Bose (plus Synergistic Research tweeks) into the best sound category alongside (presumably) the likes of Audio Note and other esteemed brands. @@guru, can you provide any further information on the items used with the Bose as this would certainly be of interest if the sound can match multiple thousands of dollars systems and maintain the discrete and WAF-friendly form factor. I presume that the Bose Wave radio had different tweeks to the one being discussed here though and would be interested to hear from anyone that has actually heard these specific cartridge add-ons. If a group wanted to do a purchase for roadshow-style trial, I'd certainly be interested in joining (say 5 people @ $40 each, for example). In the interim, I'm going shopping for a Bose Wave! So they managed to restore HF which the wave radio speakers can't reproduce, got rid of all the IM distortion, compression, widened the sound stage, lowered the midrange shout, and reproduced all the other bass frequencies the "acoustic wave" (tuned pipe) isn't tuned for. Makes you wonder doesn't it. A $799.00 clock radio $1400.00 acoustic wave system with a few $K on tweaks sounds as good, or even better than a $500000.00 system. Bose wave radio sales must have gone through the roof in Germany. **edited to give a more accurate representation of the claims being made** Edited June 18, 2015 by ehtcom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcgreg Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 When @@guru said "one of the best sounds at Munich", I didn't take that to mean "better than a $500k system". It would be a shame if we lost the benefit of people providing their opinions and feedback on real-world listening experiences for fear of ridicule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guru Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 For future reference, it was a bose acoustic wave system which retails for about $1400 and if you are interested in the synagistic products then the importer is based in Burwood road ,hawthorn. I can't be bothered arguing about a product I have no skin in and I know what I heard and I know what everyone else heard who wasn't there. As for people believing what you tell them, I think people now are incredibly sceptical and would rather get " their truths " off the net and suffer the consequences later. Just look at the amount of reasonably new gear being flogged on here at the moment, some brands are constant and some almost never. All I know is what I heard and without doing more research on the products, when each stage of the products was switched off or removed from the room, the bose kept on getting closer to sounding like a bose until everything was removed from use and it sounded like a bose wave radio and we left. The guys doing the demo dress like Mormons and their enthusiasm makes you think of the movie "men in black" with the alien zipped up in a suit bursting at the seams. It was the only agency I would have taken without hesitation if it was available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hensa Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) When @@guru said "one of the best sounds at Munich", I didn't take that to mean "better than a $500k system". It would be a shame if we lost the benefit of people providing their opinions and feedback on real-world listening experiences for fear of ridicule. I took it to mean exactly what it said: "one of the best sounds in Munich". I wasn't there and have no idea if there were $500k systems or not but if the statement doesn't mean it was one of the best sounds full-stop (as price was never mentioned in the statement), then maybe some context and more information about the tweaks that were used with the Bose would be instructive. EDIT: Guru has posted a bit more information while I was typing so thanks for that. I do also assume that no one here has actually heard the cartridge tweaks that this thread concerns? Edited June 18, 2015 by Hensa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guru Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) It did sound a lot better than a lot of $200000 systems at the show, the Ayon/lumen white and the living voice Vox Olympian system on the first day were truely atrocious. Edited June 19, 2015 by guru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eggcup The Daft Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/snake-oil-salesmen-knew-something/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehtcom Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 For future reference, it was a bose acoustic wave system which retails for about $1400 and if you are interested in the synagistic products then the importer is based in Burwood road ,hawthorn. I can't be bothered arguing about a product I have no skin in and I know what I heard and I know what everyone else heard who wasn't there. As for people believing what you tell them, I think people now are incredibly sceptical and would rather get " their truths " off the net and suffer the consequences later. Just look at the amount of reasonably new gear being flogged on here at the moment, some brands are constant and some almost never. All I know is what I heard and without doing more research on the products, when each stage of the products was switched off or removed from the room, the bose kept on getting closer to sounding like a bose until everything was removed from use and it sounded like a bose wave radio and we left. The guys doing the demo dress like Mormons and their enthusiasm makes you think of the movie "men in black" with the alien zipped up in a suit bursting at the seams. It was the only agency I would have taken without hesitation if it was available. The bold bit = sales 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest myrantz Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 But as long as Michael Fremer gives it the thumbs up we are meant to buy it? And as long as you gives it the thumbs down we are meant to avoid it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guru Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 how else do you demonstrate the products if you don't show what changes they make? I'm not following your 101 logic. my descriptives of their personality are a reflection on my observations based on a Hollywood film, not their product outcome. at the end of the day, either I've got rubbish hearing and was there being conned, there is something to this or you weren't there. simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltech Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) And as long as you gives it the thumbs down we are meant to avoid it? I'd very much like you to buy it! I cant believe those dumb tonearm manufacturers didnt think if this first. It shoud be standard on every tonearm. By all accounts it should make a $1 cartridge with plastic cantilever and nail stylus on a $50 k-mart turntable sing like a siren. Whilst you are at it, better get one of these. Unbelieveable its not standard on every car. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOYOTA-HILUX-PERFORMANCE-CHIP-ADDS-30-HP-SAVE-FUEL-/161722406548?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item25a7681694 Edited June 18, 2015 by eltech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Is that necessarily a bad thing? Certainly not for the person/company promoting such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 You guys don't take this hobby seriously enough - cmon tell what you really think :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surprisetech Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Synergistic-Research-PHT-Phono-Transducer-Transform-your-Turntable-/151712469623?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2352c49277 Give me strength. No instructions. No description of what it is or does. Except the "ethereal" blah blah... perhaps someone was smoking the snake oil??? Do you adjust your tracking force after adding the snake oil? What the heck is it??? But as long as Michael Fremer gives it the thumbs up we are meant to buy it? While holographicness, ethereality, focus and clarity are subjective, Noise Floor and Bass extension can both be measured, so those aspects of their claims could at least be verified or debunked. I wonder if any review on this product bothered with those tests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts