MSB Owners & Discussion Thread

[44maloo]

1 hour ago, Tomas329 said:

I just took delivery of a select II a few weeks ago. its connected to a woo audio wa33 headphone amp. so far i've only really started tube rolling. I'm not sure if i subscribe to the better sound from a better digital cable but i want to try them out and see what i hear. I have both the renderer and pro usb but i notice very little difference and when i do think i hear something i replay it again and think maybe it was all placebo. That's partly why i want to see if my poor cabling is the issue and i'm missing something. for the ethernet i am using a gigafoil as my ethernet filter and as a disclaimer i'm using a roon nucleus for the ethernet and my pc using roon software for the usb so that may also be the issue. 

Select 11 very nice , lucky man

[LFD]

Curious if anybody is running long cables (XLR) from the DAC to Active speakers?

Any issues?

[georgehifi]

2 hours ago, LFD said:

Curious if anybody is running long cables (XLR) from the DAC to Active speakers?

Any issues?

 

That's where XLR (Balanced) earns it's stuff over RCA "Long Runs", with less hum and noise, not sound quality, up to 2mt, RCA's are fine though.

But make sure they are quality low capacitance, low impedance, low inductance, balanced cables that are used. As it's usually just the output of a teeny weeny opamp in the output stage of a dac that has to drive it all.

 

Cheers George

Edited November 15, 2022 by georgehifi

[44maloo]

Just like George said, I use XLR cables 1.2m goebel lacorde. 

[eagle3333]

Hi from UK. Hoping to learn as much as I can about the MSB Discrete and other users experiences before, hopefully, pulling the trigger post demo' in a few days. Assuming it beats off the Tambaqui I'll also trial.

[stereo coffee]

Readers of the forum should be introduced that you are discussing two Digital to Analog Converter products.  

 

The seconds advertising claims interest me, as I was part of a similar comparison  in 1999 where a digital system I described here: http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0401/deficienciesofspdif.htm  was the equal both playing three blind mice recordings.    

[georgehifi]

5 hours ago, eagle3333 said:

Hoping to learn as much as I can about the MSB Discrete and other users experiences before, hopefully, pulling the trigger post demo' in a few days

 

I use one of MSB's discrete R2R dacs, and it's the only part of my system in years that I don't ever question anymore, after A/B'ing it up against many other "non R2R"  dacs. It's always had bigger richer dynamics that emerges from it's massive soundstage and depth, rather than being shot at you from the speaker drivers, also the sound is more relaxed because of this, even though it's bigger. And lets you play it even louder than you thought possible.

I found it's volume control and it's output stage sounds far better than any preamp I've tried, so it's fed direct into my monoblock power amps. So no preamp.

I have not heard the Tambaqui so I can't comment on it, but I believe it's also R2R, so I'm interested to heard what listeners have heard it does.

But going direct is one of the big improvement you can do if a dac has a volume control, if not go for a "passive preamp" if the dac has enough gain (most do).

 

Cheers George

Edited November 16, 2022 by georgehifi

[eagle3333]

6 hours ago, georgehifi said:

 

I use one of MSB's discrete R2R dacs, and it's the only part of my system in years that I don't ever question anymore, after A/B'ing it up against many other "non R2R"  dacs. It's always had bigger richer dynamics that emerges from it's massive soundstage and depth, rather than being shot at you from the speaker drivers, also the sound is more relaxed because of this, even though it's bigger. And lets you play it even louder than you thought possible.

I found it's volume control and it's output stage sounds far better than any preamp I've tried, so it's fed direct into my monoblock power amps. So no preamp.

I have not heard the Tambaqui so I can't comment on it, but I believe it's also R2R, so I'm interested to heard what listeners have heard it does.

But going direct is one of the big improvement you can do if a dac has a volume control, if not go for a "passive preamp" if the dac has enough gain (most do).

 

Cheers George

Thanks for that George and I completely chime with your 'only part of my system I don't ever question anymore.' I had that with my Resonessence Mirus Pro which has just died, the company has gone and it looks to be lost. It performed the rare trick of having incredible detail but also a big, rich organic presentation capable of high drama, great delicacy and deep insight. Finding a similar performance level today is an expensive exercise. I demo'd an £8k dac a few days ago that really didn't come very close.

 

I want to remain loyal to my dealer if at all possible and, at this level and my given budget, that means (after much filtered reading research)  Discrete and Tambaqui. But it's the Discrete that seems to collect more of the adjectives and descriptors I look for - which you have also used - that I'm particularly interested in. In no small part, too, for the ISL/USB electrical isolation (I'd feed it by usb from a Melco N1Zh EX) but am not sure whether this requires Roon control - which would involve bringing in another bit of kit (my laptop) as core. I really don't want to have to do that. I'm also interested in how much difference is made by the power base compared to having the second PSU. Former would break the bank but if it's staggering, I'd have to think about it.

 

I've never had success with DAC to amp direct - the Mirus had volume control, too. It was airier but never came close in terms of the scale and bass delivered through the pre. But I will try direct to Gryphon Essence amp against  running it through the Essence pre.

 

Regards, Ian

 

[georgehifi]

6 hours ago, eagle3333 said:

It was airier but never came close in terms of the scale and bass delivered through the pre.

 

Says to me the Mirus output stage wasn't up to the task, maybe an impedance mismatch with the input impedance of the amp your were using. Or if not, you preferred a coloration that the preamp had.

 

Cheers George

[eagle3333]

39 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

 

Says to me the Mirus output stage wasn't up to the task, maybe an impedance mismatch with the input impedance of the amp your were using. Or if not, you preferred a coloration that the preamp had.

 

Cheers George

Honestly, if going direct works better and I can sell the pre I'll be ecstatic. On other note - I may have been mistaken in thinking the Discreet can have the Powerbase - it doesn't seem to list on MSB's website. as such So that's less pressure..

Edited November 16, 2022 by eagle3333
addition

[georgehifi]

1 minute ago, eagle3333 said:

Honestly, if going direct works better and I can sell the pre I'll be ecstatic.

 

Yes.

Let's say if the impedances aren't a mismatch and you have enough volume, then going direct is truer to what the source sounds like. Maybe you need the MSB to hear that?

 

Cheers George 

[eagle3333]

12 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

 

Yes.

Let's say if the impedances aren't a mismatch and you have enough volume, then going direct is truer to what the source sounds like. Maybe you need the MSB to hear that?

 

Cheers George 

It's listed as following - Input impedance, balanced (20 Hz-20 kHz): 20 kΩ

[georgehifi]

25 minutes ago, eagle3333 said:

Input impedance, balanced (20 Hz-20 kHz): 20 kΩ

 

Yes that low for a poweramp input, maybe the Mirus didn't drive it happily direct if it had a so-so output stage. Just wait till you get the MSB, they have bomb proof output stages.

 

Cheers George

[eagle3333]

1 hour ago, georgehifi said:

 

Yes that low for a poweramp input, maybe the Mirus didn't drive it happily direct if it had a so-so output stage. Just wait till you get the MSB, they have bomb proof output stages.

 

Cheers George

I'll let you know what happens. The implications of success would be major. Meantime, can you comment on the worth of having the ISL USB isolation module, George? I have the opportunity to buy an ex-dem Discreet but it has the basic USB and renderer modules.

[georgehifi]

Don't know, don't use them.

 

Cheers George

[georgehifi]

Just did a search a noticed the Resonessence Mirus Pro uses Delta Sigma conversion, your going to notice a big difference with the R2R conversion of the MSB in body and weight, especially when converting PCM Redbook CD or 44.1kHz/16bit, 88.2kHz/24bit, 96kHz/24bit, 176.4kHz/24bit, 192kHz/24bit or DXD downloads, maybe not so much difference between the two dac's with DSD streamed/downloaded stuff. 

 

Cheers George 

Edited November 16, 2022 by georgehifi

[eagle3333]

40 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

Just did a search a noticed the Resonessence Mirus Pro uses Delta Sigma conversion, your going to notice a big difference with the R2R conversion of the MSB in body and weight, especially when converting PCM Redbook CD or 44.1kHz/16bit, 88.2kHz/24bit, 96kHz/24bit, 176.4kHz/24bit, 192kHz/24bit or DXD downloads, maybe not so much difference between the two dac's with DSD streamed/downloaded stuff. 

 

Cheers George 

Cheers George - I don't stream. I rip cd's or d/load albums from Qobuz to my Melco server. The Mirus was unique amongst Sabre dacs, in not sounding like Sabre dacs! However, I'm sure you're right and your information has me very excited at the prospect. Should be here by the weekend.

[BugPowderDust]

I run a MSB Premier DAC with the network renderer as well as the SPDIF I/O module and the Premier Powerbase.

 

I didn't bother with the USB interface as the network renderer works well with Roon, sounds fantastic and gives me a lot more flexibility with where I install equipment in my room. 

 

My MSB has been nothing but rock solid and sounds amazing. 

[LFD]

Hi, 

I'm putting my system back together in my new house. Can somebody please confirm the connection from the power supply to the DAC. The cables are directional I presume the connector with the arrows are at the DAC end?

[ICUToo]

1 hour ago, LFD said:

Hi, 

I'm putting my system back together in my new house. Can somebody please confirm the connection from the power supply to the DAC. The cables are directional I presume the connector with the arrows are at the DAC end?

My Reference DAC has two cables, both have a line of ">>>>>>>>" near the connectors at both ends. of each cable.

This points AWAY from Power Supplies and TOWARDS the DAC.

HTH

Enjoy your awesome DAC

Edited January 26, 2023 by ICUToo

[BugPowderDust]

I *might* be about to look at selling off my MSB Premier DAC with Premier Powerbase, Network Renderer v2, Femto 93 clock and Optical / Coaxial module due to a change in system direction (outboard DSP on a new preamp).  All in as new condition with original double boxes and remote control.

 

If anyone is looking around for one reach out and we can chat.

[44maloo]

wonderful dac, i'm sure there will be some interest.

 

GLWTS.

[LFD]

So. Has anybody thought about trying the Digital Director?

[ICUToo]

15 minutes ago, LFD said:

So. Has anybody thought about trying the Digital Director?

I have thought about it, but still waiting to hear a bit more from those who have tried it already. Not a whole lot of comments / reviews available.

 

[ICUToo]

In passing, I have changed from ProUSB to S/PDIF connection- it was advised by several posters earlier in this thread, but I ignored them because things were so good. Eventually I got around to trying it- an old Jena Labs RCA cable was pressed into action. Wow. It IS better- more sparkle and excitement and still zero digital harshness. So good that I ordered an AES / EBU module for the Reference from Sydney HiFi Castle Hill- they have ordered it in.