I have a Dayton UMM-6 mic and cal file.

I am wondering whether there is anyone willing to compare it against their mic (either same mic or a UMIK-1 or other) in their setup? Obviously an established member preferred.

Or perhaps the loan or hire of a good mic which I would promptly return?

I can cover postage both ways, also prepared to redeem your time amicably.

PM me if you can help, thanks.
Left:

Right:

What are you trying to prove? That 1 microphone is better than another? You will find that there are natural variations in the room and  measurements will vary from one to another. Those variations will make it difficult to compare microphones.

 

Note that for non professional purposes, what you have is more than adequate.  And please, please do not feel you need to place the microphone millimetre perfect and get a laser to align the microphone; it is not necessary.

6 hours ago, Sounding said:

I have a Dayton UMM-6 mic and cal file.

I am wondering whether there is anyone willing to compare it against their mic (either same mic or a UMIK-1 or other) in their setup? Obviously an established member preferred.

Or perhaps the loan or hire of a good mic which I would promptly return?

I can cover postage both ways, also prepared to redeem your time amicably.

PM me if you can help, thanks.
Left:

Right:

 

Are your tweeters fried?

Or are you just sweeping a md driver.

 

I have dayton, umik and other mics - not much difference for this kind of thing

@Snoopy8 I have been wanting to do room calibration to learn what is going on, then take steps to improve it, and confirm the benefit of such changes with readings. Through this I have been trying to figure out why I get rolloff above 7KHz and I believe it is the mic, I bought it second hand.
 

@AudioGeek I believe my Dayton mic is faulty.

Tweeters are working.

I stuck the mic in front of the tweeter about 50cm out aimed straight at it and got a better response from the tweeter.

 

 

I still think those speakers are gorgeous.

 

I am happy to send my mic to someone if they are inclined to want to run a comparative sweep and confirm whether it’s stuffed.

11 hours ago, Sounding said:

I stuck the mic in front of the tweeter about 50cm out aimed straight at it and got a better response from the tweeter.

What was the angle of the measurement which has the rolloff?

 

Depending on the angle, it could be very normal.

I love how you duct taped your microphone to your Acratech GP-SS ballhead 😂 I used to do that too (except that I was using a RRS ballhead) before I got my microphone stand. 

 

I have 3 microphones, the reason for owning 3 is so that I can compare them to each other and so that I have a backup if one goes kaput. Also, they are inexpensive. 

6 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

What was the angle of the measurement which has the rolloff?

 

Depending on the angle, it could be very normal.

Mic in main listening position, horizontal forward facing, tweeter height but aimed centre between the speakers.
I'm understanding a bit more - reinforced with your comment "could be very normal". I just ran some tests with a Yamaha YPAO mic, only out of curiosity - not expecting to get usable results. But the results are remarkably similar to what I am getting from the Dayton.

 

1 hour ago, Keith_W said:

I love how you duct taped.......

Someone that recognises an Acratech - well done. Did you spot the Gitzo tripod?
 

Treble will be absorbed more as it travels longer through the air and it is more easily absorbed in soft furniture you have around the room.

 

I've attached measurements taken in my room with a UMIK-1.

 

The blue line is the left speaker with measurement taken 1 metre away on axis with the microphone at tweeter height.

 

The orange line measure with Left and Right speakers at my listening position.

 

As you can see, there's a huge difference in the roll off in the treble.

19 hours ago, Sounding said:

@Snoopy8
 

@AudioGeek

 

 

I still think those speakers are gorgeous

 

I don't think anyone is arguing with you on that?

 

Trace looks great to me, no sub-bass of course but then you haven't activated your subs for these sweeps.

 

Enjoy!

 

Edit: oh that's near field only.  

Anyway looks good without room effects.

Edited June 8, 20232 yr by tripitaka

1 hour ago, Sounding said:

 

Someone that recognises an Acratech - well done. Did you spot the Gitzo tripod?
 

 

Of course! But that was rather obvious so I didn't mention it. I have a Gitzo 1027 myself. Yes it's very low and very light, but then I don't have a heavy camera or lenses. 

1 hour ago, jt301 said:

I've attached measurements taken in my room with a UMIK-1.

Very comforting, thank you. Nice to see an honest reading. I’m flying blind here but figuring it out.

 

58 minutes ago, tripitaka said:

Trace looks great to me, no sub-bass of course but then you haven't activated your subs for these sweeps.

I really think I need to do a deep dive into positioning the sub but I was really suspect on the microphone I have.

Anyhow it’s good fun so I’m certainly enjoying. Roy Buchanan has been belting out Chicago Smokeshop to me as I type and now Mrs. Pressure is playing, that digs deep!

Just the REL complimenting things at the moment, and things can stay how they are for a while until I get enthusiastic enough to learn more about what the bass is actually doing in this odd shaped room.

 

It’s great to have this forum to seek advice and opinion from others that have done this before me, thanks for that.

High freq roll-off is normal and desirable at your main listening position. Watch this video for an explanation why: 
 

 

Some years ago I visited an SNA member who complained that his Dynaudios sounded too bright. To me, Dynaudio's don't sound bright. Focals and B&W's do, but not Dynaudio. When I got there, I immediately understood why - he was sitting about 1.5m away from his speakers. 

Edited June 8, 20232 yr by Keith_W

Equalising response to Harman curve is a great start for achieving a response your ears will probably love. 

Harman response: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N9C7lmawVAoxB8PkQjuno7drHSwWuO8W/view_

 

Good general discussion about curves here:

**https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/a-collection-of-speaker-target-responses-in-csv-txt-format.16401/**

 

 

Edited June 8, 20232 yr by Grizaudio

5 hours ago, Sounding said:

Mic in main listening position, horizontal forward facing, tweeter height but aimed centre between the speakers.

What is the (horisontal) angle from the LP to the speaker?

 

Assuming it is fairly big, (eg. more than 30 deg or so) ... then your mic is probbaly fine, and showing you just what the response really is.

 

5 hours ago, Sounding said:

But the results are remarkably similar to what I am getting from the Dayton.

Yes.

Are the speakers firing straight ahead? (appears so in the pic) 

Would be interesting to see the response with the mic in the MLP, and the speakers toed in to be on Axis with the mic. 

( not sure if it matters, but I use the mic in the vertical position and use the 90 deg cal file when using "far field" in room measurements 

 

 

 

 

***Edit***

Do they use an Accuton tweeter? 

Just looked at some bench tests of an Accuton tweeter and at 30deg & 45deg of Axis, the response  roll-off at around 8khz looks very similar to your measurements 

Edited June 8, 20232 yr by jamiebosco

1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

What is the (horisontal) angle from the LP to the speaker?

Speakers are 2360mm apart and PLP is 2500 so that makes it a whisker under 30°

I did try aiming the speakers directly at the mic in the same position and the high range was better, aiming the mic to the speakers improved the reading further.

 

A bit of fun this afternoon, I had a speaker set up in one room about 50cm from an open doorway, and the mic aiming at the speaker from the other side of the sliding door. Just curious.

It did take a bit of explaining to the wife when she came inside at the wrong time 🫢

 

Having explored this issue somewhat, it seems quite normal for the high frequencies to roll off like that on readings and I will keep that in mind.
 

13 minutes ago, jamiebosco said:

Do they use an Accuton tweeter? 

Just looked at some bench tests of an Accuton tweeter and at 30deg & 45deg of Axis, the response  roll-off at around 8khz looks very similar to your measurements 

Thank you.

Yes, all Accuton drivers, the tweeters are 30mm diamond.

 

I will no longer assume it to be an issue.

I have been revisiting setup to see what I can do about low frequency in the room. There is a lot to learn, it’s still fun.

And I am still very happy with what I am hearing, just curious as to how good I can get it. Having put up with somewhat average sound for a decade not knowing how good it can be, I don’t just want to “settle” again - better to learn more and do things as good as I can in this odd space - especially after investing in these speakers.

 

Thanks all for the help, I really appreciate all that’s been said. Maybe someone else's turn to list their issue/s for discussion.

 

I did find a couple of interesting resources.

Definitely shows how much there is to learn if you want to get your teeth into it.

https://realtraps.com/art_measuring.htm
 

And this site has some interesting stuff and links to other interesting stuff, though the top of the pages doesn’t seem to render the website code properly.

http://arqen.com/acoustics-101/speaker-placement-boundary-interference/

@Sounding seems you are enjoying yourself, that's so important in this game (and it's not even costing you anything)👍

14 hours ago, Sounding said:

Speakers are 2360mm apart and PLP is 2500 so that makes it a whisker under 30°

I did try aiming the speakers directly at the mic in the same position and the high range was better, aiming the mic to the speakers improved the reading further.

Everything sounds like its working just great.

Nice photos BTW.

Finally got my second sub (QAcoustics 2070si) setup and received my UMIK-1 yesterday.

 

Managed to get my tablet to talk to the SR6015 via HDMI, downloaded the calibration file from the MiniDSP website, and set everything up in REW, applying the calibration file and setting dB levels etc.

 

Pretty happy with the initial few sweeps, playing with curtains and phase on the subs etc (nothing makes a lot of difference so far). Pretty happy with the SPL and Phase charts, no major dips or phase gaps (apart from a small gap around 500 and another at 700hz, not sure what that's about yet).

On 26/07/2023 at 3:16 PM, DonGreen said:

Pretty happy with the initial few sweeps, playing with curtains and phase on the subs etc (nothing makes a lot of difference so far).

Curtains aren't likely to make any difference to subs - phase adjustment on subs will make bigger/measurable differences...getting it right is the hard part.

 

Although I've never used it (I only run a single sub), Multi Sub Optimizer (MSO) appears an awesome free tool if you have the ability to dial in EQ/Delay on your subs https://www.andyc.diy-audio-engineering.org/mso/html/index.html

 

Cautionary tale on woofer phase: I had a large woofer box split internally, 240 litres each side that operated for bass and sub duties with a single 15" driver on the front face each side. 

I replaced the drivers at some stage and was testing and I couldn't understand why the bass was so bad - literally not there..

It turned out the electronic crossover had 1 channel inverted and I had massive suckout.

Flip the channel and I had bass bliss.

 

cheers

Mike

1 hour ago, almikel said:

Curtains

Perhaps he means the "curtains" in Dirac Live, where you can adjust the range of frequencies the correction is calculated for.

Lol, no, I meant the actual curtains, they are on the opposite wall to my subwoofers. Closing them does seem to cut back the first few harmonis just a little. I'm not going to be able to install any bass traps, as it's a general purpose / spare room as well as my music / theatre room.

 

I anyone has a link or 2 on interpreting the raw phase data, would appreciate that, as I have a couple of gaps, and not experienced enough to interpret minimum phase charts etc.

3 hours ago, DonGreen said:

I anyone has a link or 2 on interpreting the raw phase data

Unless you are designing a crossover, and that crossover is not for a subwoofer (ie. it is for drivers in a multi-way speaker)  .... ignore it completely --- and focus on the frequency response view.

 

Remember:  The phase, and the frequency response are two different views of the same thing.   So when I say "ignore phase and focus on frequency" .... I'm not telling you to ignore one thing and focus on another..... there is only one thing (the response), and you have two different but similar views of that one thing (the phase, and the amplitude)

 

One way of looking at it (the phase vs frequency) won't help you... and the other way of looking at it (amplitude vs frequency), is what you should focus on.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

 

 

Got back into some listening position measurements again, after some speaker modifications. This is with the LF and mid horn installed only, off axis, diagonal (across a corner) speaker and LP placement. Is it just me, or does turning up the sweep noise to the recommended decibels sound far too loud?

 

Anyhow, took multiple measurements with speakers moved forward/back and LP forward/back, to observe how it may influence the frequency response. 

 

Can't seem to improve the 60hz null with the current space, however the 90-100hz dip was improved. The <30hz followed the improvements in sub-bass I perceived by listening after the ports were changed to a more optimal alignment. 

 

Upper mid and presence region seemed to have the smoothest roll off when the LP distance was as far back as I could go and the speakers not too close to the walls (i.e., greater horn > LP distance; fewer degrees off axis presumably).

 

Supertweeters installed to hang in front of the woofer TBC...

 

Edit: NB. crossover frequency  ~600Hz 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 20232 yr by crtexcnndrm99

33 minutes ago, crtexcnndrm99 said:

60hz null

Good work

Yea the 60Hz null is a fairly standard thing to see in a response at listening position. I've seen measurements of 2 different systems over the week and both were similar. It's associated with a huge acoustic resonant peak in the accompanying waterfall, I'll wager and it's a room acoustic property. Any 2 walls 6/7m in distance apart ?

Just an opinion but a small amount of EQ at 200 and 600Hz (via DSP)  could be used because of the 10dB overall difference between them in magnitude. Either that or a little more work on the passive filtering would improve things.

Might be worth running each driver separately, then cumulate measure next ?  

Good bass rising from 20Hz, would sound pretty good.