Ittaku Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 Quote Thank you for your email and your interest in the Torus. Their appears to be an error in the listing on the website, the sensitivity is of course a different measurement to that of the maximum SPL. The brochure is correct stating a maximum SPL of 100 db, measured at 1 metre and this should be reflected also on the website specification. Regarding the frequency response of the Torus, it measures at –6dB down at 18Hz. Response above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsi-dsg Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 The Magico Apods are launching soon, its made for A3 and S1mkII, any users considering to get them? http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magico-introduces-apod8-spiked-loudspeaker-footers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 On 26/11/2018 at 3:30 PM, davewantsmoore said: Ignoring the room gain (which can be significant, but shouldn't be assumed) ... An direct radiator 18" woofer need to move the following distances to make 100dB 40Hz ~2mm 20Hz ~8mm 10Hz ~32mm 5Hz ~128mm 2.5Hz ~512mm As you drop an octave, to keep the same SPL you need to move 4 times as much. If they have settled on "100dB" ... then a high excursion 18" driver could have constant output down to <10Hz (before accounting for room gain). So this seems about right-ish. Yeah.... funny that. Wilson Benesch know & own their shite. The Torus Infrasonic Generator is what many speaker companies tried to better for years, very few managed. Most are still in the departure lounge cringing at take-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 minute ago, bzr said: Yeah.... funny that. Wilson Benesch know & own their shite. The Torus Infrasonic Generator is what many speaker companies tried to better for years, very few managed. Most are still in the departure lounge cringing at take-off. I dunno, 100dB max is pretty average for a subwoofer, especially one that expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) Have you heard them? They are top notch audiophile subs basically & unless we can develop a sublime new speaker as a race that will revolutionise the sound of expectations, these will not be bested for quite some time..... Edited November 28, 2018 by groot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 minute ago, bzr said: Have you heard them? No, as I'm looking for a sub that is louder than my current one at ultra low Hz and the generator is actually significantly quieter than my current one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 What is the attraction to loud? I don't understand it as far as subs go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 minute ago, bzr said: What is the attraction to loud? I don't understand it as far as subs go I listen to large symphonic works and organ music. When they have ultra low bass, it's very loud partially by the nature of the music itself, but also because we're relatively insensitive to bass sounds (by 70dB less at 20Hz). It's almost impossible to recreate that in a home environment even with the boost the bass gets in-room. I can recreate the scale of the dynamics for the rest of the music, but the bass of a pipe organ or double bass drum is really out there. I'm not after kick in the chest type bass by the way, which is for rock and higher frequencies anyway. My main speakers go down to 30Hz so I'm using a subwoofer for 35Hz and down. Pipe organs have a 16Hz note at times too, and once the subwoofer is trying to recreate that frequency, everything else it tries to recreate turns to crap. It's not about making 16Hz audible since we don't have elephant hearing; it's the driver excursion that comes with such notes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acg Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 59 minutes ago, Ittaku said: It's not about making 16Hz audible since we don't have elephant hearing; it's the driver excursion that comes with such notes. Some people would tell you that you don't need to actually hear sub-bass to appreciate its effects. It is more felt than heard. That's one of the reasons I had the output transformer for my bass amplifier wound to have its -1dB point at 6Hz at full power...because an orchestral performance is felt as well as heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Ittaku said: 100dB max is pretty average for a subwoofer It would likely not be loud enough at the lowest frequencies. The audibility threshold for sound at 20Hz is ~75dB. 100dB peak levels, allows for only 25dB possible dynamic range.... with everything below the top 25dB clipped by inaudibility. However room gain needs to be added in, which could be significant. It also depends on how they specify the term "max". 1 hour ago, bzr said: What is the attraction to loud? I don't understand it as far as subs go Bass frequencies need to be quite a lot louder than higher octaves, to sound the same loudness. Due to how bass speakers distort, they reduce the reproduction quality a lot. For these reasons, quite a lot of SPL / quite a lot of headroom, is very desirable for bass reproducers..... even when listening at "normal" (not crazy loud) levels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted November 28, 2018 Volunteer Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: It also depends on how they specify the term "max". doesn't it also depend on how they specify dB (ie what weighting they use)? Apologies if that's a dumb question Edited November 28, 2018 by Sir Sanders Zingmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: doesn't it also depend on how they specify dB (ie what weighting they use)? They will have measured the sound unweighted.... as all common weightings dramatically remove low frequencies, and so would be totally inappropriate. If they had of specified what frequency the max SPL was at - that could be useful. I haven't gone looking for data on this subwoofer - so all this might be provided somewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 When I said "pretty average" I was being kind and colloquial, when I actually meant substandard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Ittaku said: substandard. Yep, that's what I thought you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) This is their (woeful) graph they include. I've tried hard to read it and it looks like peak power is at 100Hz... They say clearly it's -6dB at 18Hz, though no mention of at watt [sic] power or relative to what (presumably the peak power frequency). Either way there is nothing stand out about this apart from it being interesting technology, and very compact for an 18" driver based sub... A good 13" sub in a standard acoustic suspension enclosure could easily rival this. Edited November 28, 2018 by Ittaku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Did you mis-post that link... or? http://wilson-benesch.com/wp-content/themes/mxp_base_theme/mxp_theme/images/torus-performance-graph.jpg Is that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: Did you mis-post that link... or? http://wilson-benesch.com/wp-content/themes/mxp_base_theme/mxp_theme/images/torus-performance-graph.jpg Is that it? Yes. Does it not show up for you? Perhaps it only shows up for me because it was cached from me being on their website. But yeah it's that same crappy graph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jventer Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 For a bit of fun, maybe you should wait for this: "YG: “I can discuss one of the new products – a brand-new "super subwoofer" named inVincible. It'll be available in two modular configurations, both of which will use the largest BilletCore driver ever constructed – 53 cm (21") in diameter. It is currently the most rigid subwoofer driver that we've ever seen or measured. inVincible has a built-in 6,000 watt amplifier. https://www.audiostream.com/content/what’s-box-speaker-design-yg-acoustics-yoav-geva-page-2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 Just now, Jventer said: For a bit of fun, maybe you should wait for this: "YG: “I can discuss one of the new products – a brand-new "super subwoofer" named inVincible. It'll be available in two modular configurations, both of which will use the largest BilletCore driver ever constructed – 53 cm (21") in diameter. It is currently the most rigid subwoofer driver that we've ever seen or measured. inVincible has a built-in 6,000 watt amplifier. https://www.audiostream.com/content/what’s-box-speaker-design-yg-acoustics-yoav-geva-page-2 I think I just got a boner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 For 1hz - 20hz, the most effective sub I’m aware of is the Rotary sub.Tricky install in typical rooms as it needs to be setup similar to an infinite baffleMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 14 hours ago, Ittaku said: Yes. Does it not show up for you? It's really really small, and you can't make out any numbers or anything. 14 hours ago, Ittaku said: Perhaps it only shows up for me because it was cached from me being on their website. But yeah it's that same crappy graph. I couldn't find the image... but I found. Frequency Range:- 10 to 150 Hertz –6dB at 18 Hz Maximum SPL:- 100dB at 1 Metre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted November 29, 2018 Author Share Posted November 29, 2018 21 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: It's really really small, and you can't make out any numbers or anything. Precisely, that's why I said it's a really really crappy image. 22 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: Frequency Range:- 10 to 150 Hertz –6dB at 18 Hz Maximum SPL:- 100dB at 1 Metre Yeah that's the stuff I was quoting before. Either way I think we can put the W-B torus to bed as an idea and discuss what goodies YG might have for us. At the very least they're using a big driver and lots of power. I wonder if their price will even rival that of Magico's though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 6 hours ago, Ittaku said: Either way I think we can put the W-B torus to bed as an idea and discuss what goodies YG might have for us So the Rotary Sub has no appeal? http://www.rotarywoofer.com/ I like it as it's a completely different take on how to produce really low bass (down to DC - literally) 6 of them were used in an attraction to simulate Niagara Falls http://www.rotarywoofer.com/niagara fury index.html I've been fascinated by their design for years, but too expensive for me - but well within the realm of someone considering 1 or more Magico subs. cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted November 29, 2018 Author Share Posted November 29, 2018 36 minutes ago, almikel said: So the Rotary Sub has no appeal? http://www.rotarywoofer.com/ I like it as it's a completely different take on how to produce really low bass (down to DC - literally) 6 of them were used in an attraction to simulate Niagara Falls http://www.rotarywoofer.com/niagara fury index.html I've been fascinated by their design for years, but too expensive for me - but well within the realm of someone considering 1 or more Magico subs. Yes they do interest me but my room just won't fit them no matter how much I want them to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 7 hours ago, Ittaku said: Precisely, that's why I said it's a really really crappy image. You missed out a few more "really"s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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