everydayIs25 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 First off: This thread is about power conditioners (and regenerators), when connected to Devialet amplifiers. I have some experience with Devialet amplifiers and am very impressed with their design and construction. I expressed considerable doubt that such a well designed product, using a fully regulated, switch mode power supply (SMPS) would benefit from using any kind of filters or regenerators. Second off: I have had some experience with several different regenerators (and dozens of filters), when connected to a variety of different products. I have no experience with Gigawatt products. I am bothered by the lack of clarity in their warranty statement, as it applies to connected equipment. That does not fill me with confidence in the product. How do you feel about that issue? Lastly: I have acknowledged that a regenerator may provide some assistance to either poorly designed products and/or when used in areas where mains supply Voltage fluctuates significantly. Thanks for the input , very technical and convincing.A decent manufacturer should consider the quality of built in PSU when designing their amp, especially when it's so important to the result they want to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Hyperbole ZB, mate if you condescend to your clients like you do here it will in fact come true. The warranty is not an issue, thats just you picking pick pick. Read up on them, have a look inside them see what you think. I can tell you just about every second or third conditioner used at the Munich show is a Gigawatt. The guys there are not going to put their system on show to the world at the most prestigious show just to dump on their sound. It may be a conditioner, that a ME doesn't need (cough), but many in the industry including some of the highly acclaimed & gifted engineers use them in their displays I also agree with the people that are saying about cable/regenerators/conditioners, you are always coming into the discussion with your opinion & thats that, if any one is to say differently.... impossible we hear. ZB, I am in contact with quite a few sponsors & other people here, some of them don't come here because of this trait of yours as they have had enough of it. I actually think you mean well, but I'm over it. You win, you're right, the rest of us just don't know jack & everyone knows your not a man until you've had the jack! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everydayIs25 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 Let's just talk about the topic and exchange our opinions. Everyone can have their own opinion and talk about their reason. I think it's fun and helping everyone who are interested in this topic. What I can see is no matter people who agree or disagree, there are some good reasons and points. And this is good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assisi Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 1 hour ago, everydayIs25 said: Thanks for the input , very technical and convincing. A decent manufacturer should consider the quality of built in PSU when designing their amp, especially when it's so important to the result they want to achieve. @everydayIs25 Ken, The post from @Zaphod Beeblebrox to me is not overly technical or convincing. Some of it is irrelevant as he does not seem to have any experience with conditioners such as the Gigawatt. He is commenting on his experience with regenerators and filters John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukynas Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 @everydayIs25 here you go, $7700 worth of surge protection and suppression filtering (part of your Devialet) so if you are really scared about mains spikes than either stand alone surge protector (industrial version would set you back couple of hundreds) or potentially regenerator if your mains fluctuate too much but even than you don't have to pay silly money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I find ZB's arguments reasonably convincing. I'm not that technical to follow everything he says but within the ambit I can follow, I'm yet to see any counter argument that invalidates what he says. What he says may not be true, but his reasoning makes sense. Would be more beneficial to see logical responses rather than emotional grudges. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Happy said: I find ZB's arguments reasonably convincing. I'm not that technical to follow everything he says but within the ambit I can follow, I'm yet to see any counter argument that invalidates what he says. What he says may not be true, but his reasoning makes sense. Would be more beneficial to see logical responses rather than emotional grudges. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk +1 People here are obviously entitled to their own view but maybe we should be careful not engage in a pot-kettle-black scenario. Some of the recent posts here are bordering on ad hominem. The other thing ,and this has already been mentioned, is there actually any point in these discussions and seriously, are those in entrenched positions going to change their minds on the basis of what is said here? I think the answer is obvious........ Edited July 2, 2017 by rantan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I agree, but, why is the same person involved in these discussions always the dismissive one . The true arguement involves ones experience with said product,... "period"! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 The way I see it is there is no perfect components. No matter how much you pay. Different designers have there own ideas on what they think is best or need to compromise to keep their product costs down, so profits can be maximized. So it seems to reason there is always room for improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted July 2, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, bzr said: I agree, but, why is the same person involved in these discussions always the dismissive one . The true arguement involves ones experience with said product,... "period"! I've often wondered about that. Wondered whether you really do need to have experience with a particular product to have a valid opinion about it. Edited July 2, 2017 by Sir Sanders Zingmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 +1 People here are obviously entitled to their own view but maybe we should be careful not engage in a pot-kettle-black scenario. Some of the recent posts here are bordering on ad hominem. The other thing ,and this has already been mentioned, is there actually any point in these discussions and seriously, are those in entrenched positions going to change their minds on the basis of what is said here? I think the answer is obvious........ Very true and I think it's that entrenched mindset that turns these threads into a sh@t fest.Started on power conditioners and bet it ends on cyro treated cables [emoji1] Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_mike Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I've always wondered why, on a public forum like this, the brands that are always having their claims disputed as scientifically wrong, have never litigated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everydayIs25 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 I've often wondered about that. Wondered whether you really do need to have experience with a particular product to have a valid opinion about it. That's why I raise the discussion here and want to see how people think before throw around $8K into a product just to experience it. We are all working hard to make the money and we can spend it like crazy.I am only into HiFi for short time, the Devialet is my first amp after hearing it at one of my friend's place, he told me Gigawatt but I don't think he really has a good understanding of power conditioner too. This is a very special area and not many information can be found. Sometimes we just can't trust reviews. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: I've often wondered about that. Wondered whether you really do need to have experience with a particular product to have a valid opinion about it. If one had no experience of, or exposure to, any given product, particularly in matters audio, the only way you could make comments would be to read a manufacturer's specifications document, which may or may not enlighten you or give any insight into the efficacy and worth of a component or speaker. You could also take your own measurements but that would involve experience with a particular product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted July 2, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted July 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, rantan said: If one had no experience of, or exposure to, any given product, particularly in matters audio, the only way you could make comments would be to read a manufacturer's specifications document, which may or may not enlighten you or give any insight into the efficacy and worth of a component or speaker. You could also take your own measurements but that would involve experience with a particular product. You could look at someone else's measurements.... also so you might have measured and listened to many similar components but not the particular version of that product being discussed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Assisi said: @Zaphod Beeblebrox Trevor, You seem to mix up power conditioners and regenerators. I apologise if I have been unclear. 3 hours ago, Assisi said: As I have said, to me they are two different types of devices. In your first post in this thread you actually used the words Well, not quite. A regenerator reconstructs the mains. As a consequence, it has almost perfect isolation from the mains supply. It may also employ extra filtering as part of it's construction. A filter may also provide mains isolation, though this would be restricted to quite expensive filters. 3 hours ago, Assisi said: “…so I cannot imagine it can be made better by the addition of any external components” That was not very specific. Nope, it wasn't. I've never heard the Devialet with any kind of filtering or isolation. The manufacturer specifies that such things are unnecessary. From a purely theoretical POV, I can understand why the manufacturer takes that view. The Devialet, in common with most SMPS offers internal regulation, thus negating the need for a regenerator and filtering. 3 hours ago, Assisi said: Later on in another post you said “Good quality equipment does not benefit from using a power conditioner. Poor quality equipment may be assisted.” The key words here are power conditioner. I responded to that post because I definitely disagreed with your assertion. You didn’t respond back. I did wonder why? I have responded to a great many posts in this thread. I apologise for missing yours. My comments remain. Good quality, well designed equipment does not require external filtering. 3 hours ago, Assisi said: In this post you talk about regenerators and filters again but you do not seem to have any experience with conditioners. On the contrary. I have quite a bit of experience with both devices. 3 hours ago, Assisi said: Your only concern is the Gigawatt warranty. I do not have a concern. I am quite comfortable. I bought mine from a very reputable dealer who in turn sourced it from the Australian agent. OK. So, you are comfortable that the Australian will honour any claims for damaged attached equipment to the value of EUR250,000.00? I would like to see the details of the policy. Presumably, you have a copy? 3 hours ago, Assisi said: Have you tried a Gigawatt and if not you may be surprised with the experience except that you may end up outside your comfort zone. This could be a satisfying listening experience for you as it was for me. John No, I have not tried a Gigawatt. I have tried A LOT of regenerators and filters. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicprObe Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I don't seem to notice the 'off peak' noises since I moved here.....................but then again..........I don't have any 'off peak' facilities here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: I've often wondered about that. Wondered whether you really do need to have experience with a particular product to have a valid opinion about it. How about this analogy. Do all fish taste the same? Are all cars the same, performance wise & enjoyment factor including comfort. Do all cakes taste the same, not to mention doughnuts? Does all tinted glass have the same appearance & visual magnification? & so on. Not trying to be a smart-ass here but the devil really is in the detail. There are many regenerators & conditioners, there are a very few that I would recommend . There are even less that are widely accepted other than here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted July 2, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, bzr said: How about this analogy. Do all fish taste the same? Are all cars the same, performance wise & enjoyment factor including comfort. Do all cakes taste the same, not to mention doughnuts? All fish taste enough the same that my kids won't eat them. They have a perfectly valid and defensible argument not to keep trying different fish until they find one that tastes sufficiently different for them to like. I have a friend who won't eat donuts because the measured sugar content is too high for his diabetes. Even without experience, their opinions are perfectly valid Edited July 2, 2017 by Sir Sanders Zingmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Not until chocolate fish are tasted,... no! tell your friend to eat "doughnuts" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 detail zingy detail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted July 2, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted July 2, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everydayIs25 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 How about this analogy. Do all fish taste the same? Are all cars the same, performance wise & enjoyment factor including comfort. Do all cakes taste the same, not to mention doughnuts? Does all tinted glass have the same appearance & visual magnification? & so on. Not trying to be a smart-ass here but the devil really is in the detail. There are many regenerators & conditioners, there are a very few that I would recommend . There are even less that are widely accepted other than here. Apart from Gigawatt what else you will suggest? And why? Isotek was also in my list but one of my friend said Gigawatt is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 This thread is a train wreck in slo mo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sime Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Never heard of gigawatt till this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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