muon* Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Some folk don't find EQ'ing a system as important as others do, we are all different with different likes, dislikes, and different priorities. I don't find EQ a priority for myself and don't bother even considering it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, muon* said: Some folk don't find EQ'ing a system as important as others do, we are all different with different likes, dislikes, and different priorities. I don't find EQ a priority for myself and don't bother even considering it. I get that. What I don't get is that some of the people that don't like EQ seem to think their system sounds the same at all volume levels from soft to loud (I'm not saying you do). This is demonstrably incorrect just by inspection of the Fletcher Munson curves. I love EQ - and having it on the remote is a game changer for me. Low volume, bass is a bit shy, dial the bass up a bit. Reasonable volume, great bass line, dial the bass up a bit just because The source has well mixed bass, but I'm cranking it, dial the bass down a little, whereas the bass would have been fine at lower volume I also get that EQ can do great evil - but appropriately applied IMHO it's essential for room bass management - especially if subs are involved. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyW Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Not saying it sounds the same from quiet to loud, it certainly sounds fantastic at any level though. Due to that, I don't see any point. It's about enjoying the music after all and so long as I am.... Who cares about whether it's EQ'd or not. It's irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 hour ago, almikel said: I get that. What I don't get is that some of the people that don't like EQ seem to think their system sounds the same at all volume levels from soft to loud (I'm not saying you do). This is demonstrably incorrect just by inspection of the Fletcher Munson curves. I love EQ - and having it on the remote is a game changer for me. Low volume, bass is a bit shy, dial the bass up a bit. Reasonable volume, great bass line, dial the bass up a bit just because The source has well mixed bass, but I'm cranking it, dial the bass down a little, whereas the bass would have been fine at lower volume I also get that EQ can do great evil - but appropriately applied IMHO it's essential for room bass management - especially if subs are involved. Mike I'm glad you like it. Not essential for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 59 minutes ago, MattyW said: Not saying it sounds the same from quiet to loud, it certainly sounds fantastic at any level though. Due to that, I don't see any point. It's about enjoying the music after all and so long as I am.... Who cares about whether it's EQ'd or not. It's irrelevant. Fair call - for you it's irrelevant. I became a bass nut after achieving a setup/room that delivers clean/tight/dry bass - dialling the bass up is pure fun - totally for enjoyment of the music. I don't care where the EQ is set, I dial it up or down to where I like it...but the EQ I apply will change depending on the volume I'm listening at. Take a track like Angus and Julia Stone's "Yellow Brick Road" - great bass and the run down at the end is awesome. At low volume I'd likely apply no EQ (no bass boost is needed) At high volume I'd likely sneak the bass down as the bass would get overblown It's very source dependant - how well the source is recorded, and how much bass the mastering engineer applied in the final master... ...But mostly, in my room with the bass under control and 18" mid bass drivers/amps just ticking over, when a well recorded track with a great bass-line starts why wouldn't you sneak the bass up? - it's about enjoying the music after all? Sneaking up the bass on a well recorded track with great mid bass in a room with the bass under control blows your socks off - the slam available from the 18"s is staggering Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, muon* said: Not essential for me. I'm fine with that - horses for courses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyW Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Well, while I can't speaker for all audio nuts..... EQ is unnecessary for me for the aforementioned reason. I believe that's what the subject line of this thread was about.... I guess I'm a modern audiophile as I'm not dead yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 7 hours ago, almikel said: Sneaking up the bass on a well recorded track with great mid bass in a room with the bass under control blows your socks off - the slam available from the 18"s is staggering You obviously don't live in a unit block and rent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyW Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, muon* said: You obviously don't live in a unit block and rent Or have a toddler in the house...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 (edited) HiFi is merely a nice to have; we don't need it; there is no such thing as essential. In reality, there is only better or worse and the research is well an truly out regarding what we hear in relation to volume. One can either choose to ignore it to detriment or embrace it to advantage. Edited June 18, 2021 by Satanica 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 On 18/06/2021 at 9:40 AM, muon* said: You obviously don't live in a unit block and rent On 18/06/2021 at 9:45 AM, MattyW said: Or have a toddler in the house...... yeah neither. our kids are teenagers now, but my wife and I deliberately didn't keep noise low and our kids were fine sleeping through "reasonable" volume...not blaring of course. The current stereo room is quite leaky, so the bass just goes through the walls - which is great for the "in room" sound... but it helps to have tolerant neighbours ...we've been here 11 years and so far not had a single complaint... On 18/06/2021 at 8:30 AM, MattyW said: Well, while I can't speaker for all audio nuts..... EQ is unnecessary for me for the aforementioned reason. I believe that's what the subject line of this thread was about.... I guess I'm a modern audiophile as I'm not dead yet. I don't regard myself as an "audiophile", but my friends call me an "audio nutter"... ...only an "audio nutter" would have a sub the size of a broom cupboard and attempt to explain "why" by talking about some guy called Hoffman and something to do with iron As an audio nutter and DIYer for many decades (I negotiated with my parents for them to buy my first DIY speaker kit instead of a 21st birthday party - the bass drivers are still running >30 years later...after numerous speaker boxes and many tweeters). A friend of mine ran analog active crossovers and I was blown away by the sound - and I've been running an active crossover setup since the late 1980s, my first attempt being a car stereo using 3rd order Butterworth filters. My discovery of Siegfried Linkwitz's work, 1st with the Linkwitz-Riley 24dB active crossover, then with the "Linkwitz Transform" circuit was a game changer for me... ...Siegfried's LT circuit was amazingly simple and elegant - it applied analog EQ boost to push drivers in sealed boxes down lower than their natural rolloff... ...As a self confessed "lazy" DIYer with only basic carpentry skills, but OK with a soldering iron, I got hooked on the benefit of analog electronic EQ from there... ...build a sealed box approximately the right size and within the driver Xmax and amp power limitations push the response down to what you want with an LT circuit by swapping resistors and capacitors on a circuit board For me that was easier than building ported boxes...no way I'm building another box, or mucking with port lengths. Fast forward to 2010 and I purchased a DEQX HDP3 with DSP crossover and EQ capabilities - what a revelation! A major improvement over my previous 3 way analog active Xover setup. The flexibility and control DEQX has is fantastic - I use linear phase DSP filters for speaker correction and "old school" minimum phase DSP filters for room correction. An active crossover DEQX setup with sufficient room treatment to have the room's bass under control is special. The DEQX remote control also has "tone controls" for bass/mid/high using old school minimum phase DSP. For everything I love about DEQX, having tone controls on the remote is one of my favourite things. Sitting back in the listening couch with the ability to adjust volume/bass/treble up or down on the remote is awesome! EQ has gained (pun not intended) a bad reputation over the decades, and deservedly so - poorly applied EQ can definitely make the "in room" sound worse. Well applied EQ on the other hand can provide significant benefit IMHO. Examples would include: pushing main speakers lower if a sub is not available/desired (be careful with ported speakers if applying gain around/below the port frequency) integrating a sub or subs to main speakers - IMHO DSP EQ/delay capability makes integration between mains and sub/s easier room correction for managing the room's bass response speaker correction to achieve a flatter frequency response from your speakers tone controls for adjusting sound to taste For this thread I reckon most would fall into the below categories: audio enthusiasts running passive crossover speakers without subs - adding EQ is not typical audio enthusiasts running passive crossover speakers with subs - they may use the EQ available in the sub but rarely implement a crossover between mains and sub or run EQ on the mains audio enthusiasts running active crossover speakers - just regard applying appropriate DSP EQ and delay as the norm across all drivers Just to test what I've written above with a very small sample of 2: @MattyW , @muon* - do you run passive crossovers for your main speakers? and do you run a sub or multiple subs? cheers, Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 ML-1's as in my sig, no sub. Mike tried DEQX instead of a passive with the ML-1's at one time and preferred what he could do with his passive XO, mind you he is very good as passive design. Have never really felt the need for a sub, or tone controls. The times in the past when I used a PC as a source I tried parametric EQ and never liked the results no matter what I tried. I like simplicity and why my system is very minimalist, a CD Player as only source ect'. When I had a turntable that was the only source used at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, muon* said: ML-1's as in my sig, no sub. I've never listened to Mike Lenehan's speakers, but all reports here on SNA are great. 9 minutes ago, muon* said: Mike Lenehan tried DEQX instead of a passive with the ML-1's at one time and preferred what he could do with his passive XO, mind you he is very good as passive design. I completely accept that Mike is a genius at passive Xover design...but I suspect commercial considerations prevailed, and his decision to not use DEQX was a commercial decision rather than a decision based purely on the "sound". There's only so much you can "do" with a passive crossover, and so much more you can achieve with an active crossover DSP solution like DEQX. cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, almikel said: but I suspect commercial considerations prevailed, and his decision to not use DEQX was a commercial decision rather than a decision based purely on the "sound". You would need to check with Mike whether your assumption is correct or not. Edit: but going by his statements at the time, you are incorrect. Edited June 19, 2021 by muon* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted June 19, 2021 Volunteer Share Posted June 19, 2021 I would imagine going fully active is a decision that has many facets to it other than just sound. For one, the perceived cost of the speaker goes up (a lot I imagine, what’s the price of a DEQX compared to the ML1s?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 minute ago, muon* said: You would need to check with Mike whether your assumption is correct or not. Of course - and I've never spoken with Mike Lenehan, or listened to his speakers - so I'm unlikely to have an opportunity to test that assumption. Passive Xovers have their own issues outside the scope of this thread. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) Never mind, back to the thread topic. Horses for courses! Edited June 19, 2021 by muon* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdDrawerDown Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Regarding the topic of the OP: in my listening room I have installed a couch and some curtains. Also some doors. Cheers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 55 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I would imagine going fully active is a decision that has many facets to it other than just sound. not really - just sound vs cost - what else is there? 55 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: For one, the perceived cost of the speaker goes up (a lot I imagine, what’s the price of a DEQX compared to the ML1s?). Hold on - a DEQX HDP5 is an ADC/pre-amp/3 way crossover/DAC solution, not a speaker - why compare a DEQX unit with a speaker? Sure I'm a DEQX fanboi - but IMO a DEQX is still a fantastic single box device for an ADC/pre-amp/3 way crossover/DAC solution. I look at the current web prices for DEQX and recall I got good pricing when purchasing mine - just ask... ...I've been a happy DEQX owner since 2010, and currently run double DEQX for 4 way active... ...apologies to the OP for the off topic Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdDrawerDown Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Carpet. That made a difference too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 55 minutes ago, muon* said: Nothing is perfect. Pick ya' poison agreed, nothing is perfect - my choice is an active crossover with at least a 24dB/octave slope - in every way that will beat a passive crossover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted June 19, 2021 Volunteer Share Posted June 19, 2021 52 minutes ago, almikel said: not really - just sound vs cost - what else is there? Hold on - a DEQX HDP5 is an ADC/pre-amp/3 way crossover/DAC solution, not a speaker - why compare a DEQX unit with a speaker? Sure I'm a DEQX fanboi - but IMO a DEQX is still a fantastic single box device for an ADC/pre-amp/3 way crossover/DAC solution. I look at the current web prices for DEQX and recall I got good pricing when purchasing mine - just ask... ...I've been a happy DEQX owner since 2010, and currently run double DEQX for 4 way active... ...apologies to the OP for the off topic Mike ?? the statement was made that Lenehan tried a DEQX instead of a passive crossover. Why do you mention the HDP 5, do you know that was the unit he tried? If he had decided to sell his speaker as an active speaker with a DEQX as the crossover then you have to add the cost of the DEQX to the cost of the speaker. That’s all I’m saying. That would be a significant increase which might double the price (I’m not sure of the price of either the ML1 or any of the DEQX units but I think they aren’t too far apart). Surely that’s a serious consideration when deciding to make a speaker? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 I mention one thing and it turns into a futile debate with little meaning to the thread *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted June 19, 2021 Volunteer Share Posted June 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, muon* said: I mention one thing and it turns into a futile debate with little meaning to the thread *sigh* Active crossovers are not relevant in a thread about EQ ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, sir sanders zingmore said: Active crossovers are not relevant in a thread about EQ ?? No, the debate being propagated without evidence and based on assumtions is not relevant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts