HIgher end 7.1 Processor Options with 4k - ideas and/or for sale options

[DTJ]

Hi Guys,

I am a long time on and off lurker to this forum, but rarely post. I have spent my time absorbing info mainly!. Thanks to those regular contributors, there is a wealth of information shared.

 

My dilemma and questions

After a bit of a longish delay, I have just finished fitting out a new HT. I have had various bits of gear for some time, f=rom previous rooms etc. , but technology has started to date parts of it.

So I am looking for ideas/options/opinions on "higher end"  7.1 processors. I am also open to any options/offers poeple might have that have upgraded to later model units, where you may have a piece of gear offered for sale. I have trolled classified for a bit of late.

 

General setup and parts to stay are:

• Dedicated new HT room, fair bit of acoustic treatment etc.
• 7.2 audio system, M&K SS150 speaker system, front/rear room subs,
• Existing processor is a Sherbourne 7020A (circa 2010 vintage) (Similar to the original Emotiva UMC-1). This is HDMI 1.3, audio options of the day etc. I have trialed and it will not manage/switch 4k/UHD source material in any way.
• Elektra Theatre 7 channel amp. Might one day upgrade to a HD7 if I find one being moved on. Mainly for the XLR (not that I need them).
• Oppo 203
• Other video sources yet to be sorted - other than a very old SD set top box, which works for free to air channels. I will likely look at Apple TV or something like that not too distant future. We currently have no Netflix or anything like that.
• JVC X9000 projector, 125" acoustic transparent screen. I don;t technically need 4k, but would like to be able to transmit 4k to take advantage of HDR etc.
• I don't have a lot of 4k source material currently, but assume that opportunity might open up when I sort out other streaming devices etc. Mostly Blu Ray discs on hand currently.

 

Things in the processor upgrade that (I think) I would like:

1. Preferably processor for separate amp - I am not as keen on utilising a receiver, but have not 100% dismissed it.
2. preferably balanced XLR out (sort of eliminates 1 above).
3. video that can handle 4k/HDR
4. preference to switch video via the processor - rather than separate vid/audio needs from the Oppo. Thus the 4k requirement.
5. No near or mid term intention to go beyond 7.2, so no real need for Atmos etc. That would likely be paying for stuff I don;t need/want.
6. Dual sub out and control would be a bonus, but not necessary. I can manage what I need with one output.
7. Room correction - I have a strong interest in this, but its not high(est) priority. I have a sound engineering background, and to be honest, happily tweak audio by ear to what I like.
8. Budget - I don't mind good (expensive) gear, who doesn't!. - but I am probably more a value oriented person. So I would not want budget to limit my thinking outright - I will pay for something if I see value. But for perspective, most of what I have was bought for a lot less than new RRP, and obtained as either demo, or "as new" second hand etc. So full RRP of true high end gear is definitely not being contemplated (even if I still take an interest in it!).
9. I am thinking second hand is the logical answer to what I need, leaning towards higher end equipment
10. Stereo is mildly important, but not a main use or priority. I have a good quality mid-late 90's Denon/Mission 753 stereo set up that was marked for this room separate to the HT set up. After a bunch of trialing, I have decided to move it on and not put it into the HT room. Too much space, for not enough return. So the HT Pro set up will be used for dedicated stereo. I am happy with the compromises it will have, for how much time I get to use it for that purpose. The M&K's do a pretty good job I think.

 

The types of processors options I have come up with from reading and looking about on every forum I can find are

1. Primare SP33 (4k version)
2. Emotiva UXMC-1 (4k version)
3. Rotel RSP1582 (never seen evidence of one of these for sale)
4. NAD M17 (I asume may be a bit too many $$$ - also never seen one for sale)
5. Classe Sigma SSP ( I think you can still get these new. It misses a few things I think I want, but they get great reviews)
6. Other options from Marantz etc, but they start to move away form a few things I like. Particular not going to an integrated receiver.

 

I feel like the Primare and Emotiva are the closest to what I need. But I am finding them hard to come by on the second hand market in later versions with 4k/HDR switching. The Primare in particular is nice. The existing unit I have would be perfect except for the HDMI1.3 ports.... A member on here has a non 4k version. But I feel that may be a bit too much aof a step back, and not far enough form where I am at. Current set up switches 1080P.

 

I seem to have stalled in finding an option... Nothing new really does what I am chasing that I can find.

So any thoughts, opinions, options etc would be greatly appreciated. Fire away and thanks in advance!.

 

Cheers,
Darren.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by DTJ

[betty boop]

3 hours ago, DTJ said:

I seem to have stalled in finding an option... Nothing new really does what I am chasing that I can find.

So any thoughts, opinions, options etc would be greatly appreciated. Fire away and thanks in advance!.

 

Cheers,
Darren.

have a great system overall... 

 

if looking at and m17 you'd need the v2... but it is a lot of cash...

 

you dont state a budget... I see you about units coming up for sale. so clearly looking for 2nd hand ? 

 

id personally look at a marantz 7 series or 8 series pre amp ... anything from 2016 onwards ... eg av8802A  and you need to get the A units. as you can throw everything at it ...and will do all want including the dual subs...

 

if can't afford the 8 series look similar vintage 7 series.

 

the other options you mention, i personally wouldn't touch... you want something rock solid works... there just isn't enough track record on some of this stuff and 4k is certainly a mine field...

 

 

 

 

[muriwai]

YWhat Al said (Betty Boop)

Edited May 8, 2020 by muriwai

[cwt]

4 hours ago, DTJ said:

1. Budget - I don't mind good (expensive) gear, who doesn't!. - but I am probably more a value oriented person. So I would not want budget to limit my thinking outright - I will pay for something if I see value. But for perspective, most of what I have was bought for a lot less than new RRP, and obtained as either demo, or "as new" second hand etc. So full RRP of true high end gear is definitely not being contemplated (even if I still take an interest in it!).
2. I am thinking second hand is the logical answer to what I need, leaning towards higher end
3. Emotiva UMC-1 (4k version)

Just to mention Darren 3. would be a xmc1 with the upgraded hdmi 2.0b card ; these come up now and then direct from Emotiva Tennessee from people trading them in on the new RMC XMC2 series ; you have to be quick  Like Al said I wouldnt touch a umc1 ; too flaky

 

I ran a Sherbourne PT7030 for many happy years with my Elektra HD7 ; its hdmi 1.4 so can handle 4k but not HDR [  i keep it as a spare as I got it for a song as Emotiva shut up Sherbourne completely ] The solution for UHD bluray would be a hd fury device like a vertex to strip HDR or just run the audio from a dual hdmi player to the 7030

Quote

Each channel has Individual DACs and volume control circuits and Sherbourn used a multi-stage linear power supply with a large toroidal transformer

.If you cant find a marantz I would let mine go for not a lot [ as I also have a spare umc200 that has emo q  ]

 

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/sherbourn-pt-7030-surround-processor-pa-7-350-amplifier

[DTJ]

11 minutes ago, cwt said:

Just to mention Darren 3. would be a xmc1.....

The xmc-1 is what I meant sorry...

but as you say, they seem a bit patchy to find.

i am looking more closely at the Marantz models.

[Neilsy]

Good input from everyone above.

 

You're on the money with the Emotiva. 

 

Other options in a similar sort of league that have XLR out, at least 7.1 and dual sub options:

- Anthem AVM60; XLR, Anthem ARC is one of the most praised room correction tools short of things that Trinnov offer. Ballpark RRP $5,299 AU

- Marantz AV8805; XLR, Audyssey MultEQ XT32, RRP is higher @ $7,990 AU

- Marantz AV7704; XLR, as above, RRP $3,970 AU

- JBL SDP-55; XLR -  next step up. I think around $13-16K

 

Then there's next level like Lyngdorf, Storm Audio and Trinnov but you'll need near $30K for that realm. 

 

I can understand where you're coming from as I'm in a similar situation where I have an Anthem AV50 processor. Those were just into five figures $ back in the day but stuck at HDMI 1.4a. So awesome decoding of sound, DACs, etc but I run my Oppo 205 direct out for video and obviously cannot do true object based audio yet so I am limited to 7.2 for now. 

[DTJ]

13 hours ago, betty boop said:

if looking at and m17 you'd need the v2... but it is a lot of cash...

 

you dont state a budget... I see you about units coming up for sale. so clearly looking for 2nd hand ? 

 

id personally look at a marantz 7 series or 8 series pre amp ... anything from 2016 onwards ... eg av8802A  and you need to get the A units. as you can throw everything at it ...and will do all want including the dual subs...

 

if can't afford the 8 series look similar vintage 7 series.

 

the other options you mention, i personally wouldn't touch... you want something rock solid works... there just isn't enough track record on some of this stuff and 4k is certainly a mine field...

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply. To elaborate on a few of your comments.

 

The M17 - I thought was out of a realistic price point, but I put it on the list in the first instance and it then left me wondering what $$ they would fetch around the 4 year old mark. I assumed the V1 might be suitable, but I think they lacked HDMI2.2, without a card upgrade. But I also  did read the 2.2 upgrade was free to all V1 owners, so maybe they all carry that now?? Either way they appear rare to come by.

 

Re budget. I am more they type of person that works out what I "need" to spend rather than what I can afford to spend. For me, based on what I have seen about, that means I would be happy at anything under $2k, quite prepared to spend up to $3k, and not 100% dismissive of more than $3k, but feeling it really is not warranted. However my gauge may be off. Reality is - I know I could do everything I wanted and make it work for well under $1k.... But I am looking for a certain level of nice in the gear as well. I am also not one for regular replacement and upgrade, so whatever it is, it will be there for some time.

Second hand was defiantly the thinking. Partly becasue I don't need Atmos and latest audio processing. Also because I like nice gear, but can't justify (for me) the full RRP of that gear. Second hand is away for me to look for a certain quality, that I would not be prepared to pay for new, but is nice to have. I have no issues with well looked after used gear. Everything is used once we open the box!. New gets old pretty quick in my experience, although it is nice at the time!.

 

 

Re Marantz - I have read your other posts saying the same, and have looked more closely at those products. I have read up a little more last night on their legacy units.

What is the core difference with the "A" models?

Am i interpreting correctly that the biggest difference with the 7 series vs 8 is number of audio channels (It was late last night reading on the phone and I could not find any easy comparison of the tech specs between models).

 

 

Re the others. Probably the Primare and Emotiva were the ones I thought were most widely used in Aus or over seas. However probably have less support locally (by owners or dealers) compared to say Marantz.

I have not really found anything negative on either, other than some suggestions that the Emotiva may not have been as reliable as is made out by some, although other reports suggest it is solid. I could be wrong, but I gauge Emotiva is loved by those that can not afford to buy more expensive "audiophile" gear, and is looked down upon by those that have the high end exclusive brands, as a cheap attempt to buy in to that market. Thus the very differing opinions I see on Emo seem based on where someone has come from (or that is what it appears to me). The Primare seems well regarded by those with it in Aus, but it also seems to be the more hi-fi oriented group that has this view. They are simple (the unit that is), no EQ etc. which I don't completely have an issue with. Good gear, but more importantly well set up, should not need masses of eq in my view - depending on how purist you get about paper measure vs measuring with your ears. The Classe appears more hi fi oriented users out of Europe, rather than Aus users. It probably does not hit the mark realistically at all for me.

 

Is it fair to assume the Marantz would be far superior on the video side vs say Primare? Would the Marantz do better on the video side than say Emo XMC-1. Assuming all are HDMI 2.2.

 

Unrelated to this - I have been trolling your posts re JVC/Oppo/HDR/tone mapping etc. I have a bit of work to do there. however it definitely re-enforces the benefits of having gear that is more widely owned and used by others on these forums.

 

Thanks for the input of all, it is much appreciated.

 

[DTJ]

11 hours ago, cwt said:

I ran a Sherbourne PT7030 for many happy years with my Elektra HD7 ; I got it for a song as Emotiva shut up Sherbourne completely ]

 

...The solution for UHD bluray would be a hd fury device like a vertex to strip HDR or just run the audio from a dual hdmi player to the 7030

 

Thanks for the reply - I would happily stick with the Sherbourne for now, if ti was not for the video limitations.

I have read up on the HD Fury, but figure thats a lot of hard work to get older gear to do what the current stuff has standard.

 

Re the 7030. Thanks for the offer, but I probably want to take a bigger jump to HDMI2.2. I don't see any other upgrade soon for this. Otherwise I could do some work arounds with what I have.

But I really do want to get relatively simple video switching etc. from one unit.

A small step up only here would probably leave me immediately looking for something more.

I do have a 18G HDMI cable, which I will run direct from the Oppo to the PJ - just to test some UHD source. I have also been wondering if the picture improvement from that is worthwhile (as it is the main reason I am keen to get UHD to the PJ and thus the only reason I need mre than HDMI 1.4). But I am gauging I need to do some other stuff to properly test that with the PJ set up as well.

 

Cheers.

[DTJ]

21 minutes ago, Neilsy said:

Good input from everyone above.

 

You're on the money with the Emotiva. 

 

Other options in a similar sort of league that have XLR out, at least 7.1 and dual sub options:

- Anthem AVM60; XLR, Anthem ARC is one of the most praised room correction tools short of things that Trinnov offer. Ballpark RRP $5,299 AU

- Marantz AV8805; XLR, Audyssey MultEQ XT32, RRP is higher @ $7,990 AU

- Marantz AV7704; XLR, as above, RRP $3,970 AU

- JBL SDP-55; XLR -  next step up. I think around $13-16K

 

Then there's next level like Lyngdorf, Storm Audio and Trinnov but you'll need near $30K for that realm. 

 

I can understand where you're coming from as I'm in a similar situation where I have an Anthem AV50 processor. Those were just into five figures $ back in the day but stuck at HDMI 1.4a. So awesome decoding of sound, DACs, etc but I run my Oppo 205 direct out for video and obviously cannot do true object based audio yet so I am limited to 7.2 for now. 

Thanks Matt,

I did have Anthem on the short list - not sure why it dropped off. I will revisit that.

I sort of removed the real high end stuff you mentioned - price being the main reason for me. But also probably for the reasons Al was eluding to. Very limited support as far as users go.

 

Interestingly  see your in Brisbane, and have a similar PJ/screen set up to what I have possibly. I would be interested to chat to you if you had the time. It seems most on these forums are Melbourne/Adelaide/Syd based. Maybe the weather is nicer up here!!.

 

PS. What part of Bris are you in?

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by DTJ

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Yeh your problem is wanting the latest video HDMI capabilities but not necessarily the audio, there's massive savings if those two priorities were switched around but understand its not an option and really the only reason you are upgrading from what you have in the first place.

 

You certainly do pay a premium for the latest Pre/Pros just to get 4K HDR pass through but not necessarily in the AVR market which may be worth looking at too given your $2-3k budget secondhand.

[DTJ]

Is there considered any advantage from the audio side when you jump to later units - when you are only running 7 channel?

I will be honest, I have lost track with the various Dolby etc. formats and need to read up and understand if there are any improvement that I might take form units with later audio format processing (when not going beyond 7 channel).

[DTJ]

3 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Yeh your problem is wanting the latest video HDMI capabilities but not necessarily the audio, there's massive savings if those two priorities were switched around but understand its not an option and really the only reason you are upgrading from what you have in the first place.

 

You certainly do pay a premium for the latest Pre/Pros just to get 4K HDR pass through but not necessarily in the AVR market which may be worth looking at too given your $2-3k budget secondhand.

Noted and agreed - Overall most of what I am looking at appears 4-5 years older gear, that had HDMI 2.2 board updates or later revisions that came out with that. Pretty much the slightly "higher end" or non-receiver gear, that upgraded their video to meet the latest. But not necessarily complete new model units. I guess the XMC-1, Primare, and relevant Rotel versions probably fit into that category roughly.

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

 

This would be the type of AVR I would be considering if budget allows, Premium Sound, adds Dirac Live and Atmos etc. for later.

[DTJ]

2 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

 

This would be the type of AVR I would be considering if budget allows, Premium Sound, adds Dirac Live and Atmos etc. for later.

I had pretty much dismissed receivers outright. I don't see myself going to Atmos any time soon. So if I did, my thinking is that may be upgrade time anyway. I would hate to pay for some stuff I didn't need, and never get around to using it before it also becomes obsolete. It Atmos was on the cards in the next few years, that would be a different consideration.

But I see your point..

Thanks.

[Snoopy8]

Given that you will be using for music also, suggest revisiting room correction. To me, Dirac Live and Anthem Room Correction are the difference in whether a prepro is acceptable for music.

 

The options with XLR outputs are NAD M17 V2, Arcam AV40 and Anthem AVM60. Best value is the AVM60.  Audyssey on Marantz is not good for music, good for movies.

[gwurb]

I have been looking at similar price ranges. From purely a measurements point of view here is what I have:

ARCAM AVR second hand (or on sale): poor digital measurements, great amplifier measurements

NAD V3 AVRs second hand or new: poor digital measurements, positive amplifier measurements

Marantz pre AV7705 second hand: better digital measurements than ARCAM or NAD but need seperate amplifier

Denon X35/600H AVR: good digital measurements, positive amplifier measurements 

Based on those findings I have been leaning towards the Denon and considering a separate amp. I figure if digital (being the first part) is poor then what is the point of amplifying poor. On the other hand one of the other AVRs as amps, or dedicated amps (better idea than using an AVR in my opinion) seem like a good move after good digital stage. You mentioned that you need XLR out. That limits options like Denon X3500H/X3600H. 
 

Other than measurements there is also what you like hearing. That needs to be tested in person

[DTJ]

Thnaks Gwurb.

I have an Elektra Amp - so receivers aren't really a consideration.

The XLR's are not a must have by any means - but I have interconnects recently made (ready to change to full XLR/XLR balanced), prefer balanced in principal (even if I don't really need it) noting I did lots of live audio engineering - its just what I am used to, and most of the stand alone processors will have this. But its not a limiting factor outright.

 

I think I need to revist Arcam, and look closely at the 7 series Marantz stand alone units.

Edited May 9, 2020 by DTJ

[betty boop]

35 minutes ago, Neilsy said:

I can understand where you're coming from as I'm in a similar situation where I have an Anthem AV50 processor. Those were just into five figures $ back in the day but stuck at HDMI 1.4a. So awesome decoding of sound, DACs, etc but I run my Oppo 205 direct out for video and obviously cannot do true object based audio yet so I am limited to 7.2 for now. 

the thing is neilsy that there is actually lower cost options just going back catalog that worth considering ....

 

eg instead of below,

41 minutes ago, DTJ said:

Marantz AV8805; XLR, Audyssey MultEQ XT32, RRP is higher @ $7,990 AU

- Marantz AV7704; XLR, as above, RRP $3,970 AU

instead of av8805 and pay premium for new latest and greatest .... just look at the AV8802A as I suggested... but will be looking 2nd hand that the op is only considering.

 

and instead of latest av7704 look as far back as av7702mk2

 

all these are everything folk will need. sure missing things like heos or spotify or something but really you are probably better off with stand alone media players like apple tv 4k that i use that covers full airplay and what not anyways....

 

 

 

[betty boop]

47 minutes ago, DTJ said:

I did have Anthem on the short list - not sure why it dropped off. I will revisit that.

one thing to watch out for with anthem is lack of dual sub support.....

[betty boop]

52 minutes ago, DTJ said:

I think I need to revist Arcram

arcam made some great avrs... but i think with av processors they were rebadges.... certainly some models were ... so i would be vary....

 

also when you say lets look at older models that got updates... i would be very careful. I know the marantz units went through that well, but not all brands did....

[Steam]

@DTJ this site is a useful summary/blog of the differences between the recent marantz prepro offerings

 

7704 v7705 v 8802 v8805

 

 

[betty boop]

15 minutes ago, Steam said:

@DTJ this site is a useful summary/blog of the differences between the recent marantz prepro offerings

 

7704 v7705 v 8802 v8805

 

 

misses critically on av7702mk2 and av7703 which are for all intensive purposes for OP identical... just later model with some trinkets ... all will take everything thrown at it from todays latest and best formats and sources  also it needs to be very careful with the 8802 and make sure it is a av8802A specifically  the A model had the latest needed hdmi. the non A will need an update... which some might think oh i'll just go get the update... but like with most makers the update was only available for a while... not for ever and ever .... so if a non A hasn't been updated probably bucklies and none trying to get updated now...

[DTJ]

What about the Primare SP33 (4k) option. No owners out there? I thought there had been a few.

[gwurb]

2 minutes ago, DTJ said:

What about the Primare SP33 (4k) option. No owners out there? I thought there had been a few.

Be mindful of 4K compatibility.

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/251014-sold-fs-primare-sp33-processor-a307-power-amp/

 

As was mentioned above, the tricky part is getting all of the 4K features and all of the decoding formats. If you mainly focus on audio reproduction then you have more options. But, you already have an amp.

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Could have a winner here and it appears to be 4K.

 

the last primare av processor too given they don't make them anymore