Ascension 3 way Stand Mount Bargain?

[bryansamui]

Has anyone heard these Ascension M823SQ   3 way studio monitors? Opinions?.. Sold direct from manufacturer in Adelaide so eliminate 2 mark ups from imported product (importer & Retailer) so  it is feasible that their claim  their $1,400 speakers sound as good as speakers costing 2-3 times more ($3k - $4k).This of course is not a wild claim as other builders eg Tekton have had their $US 3,000 Double Impacts compared for better for worse to $20,000 speakers because they sell direct.. Salk speakers is another that is way cheaper than comparables. The downside to all this is it is next to impossible to audition them unless you live next to the factory. 

These Aussie made 3 way stand mounts have quality SB Acoustics drivers (ex Scanspeak, Revelator, illuminator engineers) 8". 5" and waveguide tweeter.. 24 litre enclosure. 500mm tall  claiming accuracy suitable for either 'Studio Mastering' being accurate and revealing of micro detail or home listening (as is a BBC  LS5 /9 ) You Can't get a  large imported 2 way with Danish Drivers for under 3 grand let alone a 3 way with an 8"!..

If this sounds as good as it is on paper it is a bargain.. Tekton and Salks are.. Is this our Aussie equivalent?? . I rekon it would look stunning in white.  3 way stand mounts are quite rare too.. Anyone heard these? 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited April 12, 2020 by bryansamui

[Sceeta]

Hi, I don't know about this particular model but I own a pair of custom made ones, a pair of summoners and a centre speaker all from Edward and I have no complaints. My custom ones are driven by my rogue tube amp and sound superb  and are for stereo listening. The others are on home theatre duties and perform flawlessly. Edward is a great guy to deal with and it would definitely be worth calling him for a chat. He will also customise. My summoner's I bought 2nd hand but the centre and my others were all custom made to suit my requirements. Good luck on your quest.

[Guest deanB]

I've been enjoying a pair of these for nearly 2 years.

The mid and bass drivers are from SB Acoustics NRX range. These are a step up in sound quality from the drivers in the AS Summoner 863 I had previously. 

I hear plenty of detail from top to bottom but the 823 don't fit my notion of studio monitor.

They're a tad forgiving, sound a bit bigger than they look, easily filling my medium room at moderate volume.

But they're also honest enough to help guide you through any tweaks or changes you make to your system.

Take the quoted sensitivity with a pinch of salt, it feels to me like they're closer to 88db or thereabouts. I'm using a 50w power amp but need a bit more headroom for the likes of Rammstein etc. Which has to be played loud or don't bother. Of course, none of this was an issue when I was using 150w monos with the 823's.

The cabinet isn't completely inert but in this price range? I've never found it intrusive. 

I like the Adelaide Speaker transmission line designs. The formula is right, the speakers are even handed in their delivery and avoid the dreaded one note/boomy bass. You can also have the 823 in a sealed cabinet design.

So is it a bargain? For sure. And I'll be putting my money where my mouth is for a third time when I (eventually) order a pair of floorstanders from the higher efficiency AS Valve Series.

One final positive is that the owner of AS, Edward is a very good person to deal with. 

[bryansamui]

Thanks (Dean & Sceeta ) I want to completely change direction. Had some  Martin Logan Electrostatics . Super detailed and lightning quick but ultimately 'Wearing ' to listen to . Too much of a good thing..Not keen on the Bright B&W or Monitor Audio  sound either.. Fell in love with Harbeth/Spendor "Pipe and Slippers"  BBC sound with that amazing mid range window with that 'You are there ' quality..  Haven't got $7,450  to throw at them anyway... What amazes me is  for that money, (While they sound amazing) there is nothing in them! (see Picture below) . A   6 sided fairly empty 12mm Plywood  box.  It's not like there is the skill level involved in say, putting together an  Archtop Acoustic guitar..  Clearly , you must be paying for the R& D? ..I wonder if Edward can give a Slice of that sound ? By all accounts he seems to be able to modify the tone somewhat... The SB Drivers he uses  are related to Scanspeak (Early designers who left the company )   Early Proac speakers used these(Scanspeak) and they have that 'laid back' British Sound.  ATC are another brand auditioned against Harbeth.. I wonder if these  SB drivers are voiced similarly and can get along that type of sound if implemented correctly.. Edward it seems uses quality parts , so surely it comes down to the implementation of those parts?  I got onto this as  Ascension say it is a "Studio Monitor"  (As is a Harbeth)

[Guest deanB]

1 hour ago, bryansamui said:

Thanks (Dean & Sceeta ) I want to completely change direction. Had some  Martin Logan Electrostatics . Super detailed and lightning quick but ultimately 'Wearing ' to listen to . Too much of a good thing..Not keen on the Bright B&W or Monitor Audio  sound either.. Fell in love with Harbeth/Spendor "Pipe and Slippers"  BBC sound with that amazing mid range window with that 'You are there ' quality..  Haven't got $7,450  to throw at them anyway... What amazes me is  for that money, (While they sound amazing) there is nothing in them! (see Picture below) . A   6 sided fairly empty 12mm Plywood  box.  It's not like there is the skill level involved in say, putting together an  Archtop Acoustic guitar..  Clearly , you must be paying for the R& D? ..I wonder if Edward can give a Slice of that sound ? By all accounts he seems to be able to modify the tone somewhat... The SB Drivers he uses  are related to Scanspeak (Early designers who left the company )   Early Proac speakers used these(Scanspeak) and they have that 'laid back' British Sound.  ATC are another brand auditioned against Harbeth.. I wonder if these  SB drivers are voiced similarly and can get along that type of sound if implemented correctly.. Edward it seems uses quality parts , so surely it comes down to the implementation of those parts?  I got onto this as  Ascension say it is a "Studio Monitor"  (As is a Harbeth)

Edward doesn't mind a chat on the phone so you can run all your thoughts in the above post past him.

When I approached him about changing the Summoners for the 823, he actually tried to talk me out of doing it. So he won't give you any hard sell stuff!

But having owned ATC 19's, the 823 aren't in the same category. The 19's are also a bargain in their own right but are the next level up plus a bit more, as well as requiring more serious amplifier commitment than the 823 need.

Fyi, the 823 weigh approx 22kg. They're a pretty decent bit of kit.

[allthumbs]

I have a pair of 2 way-sealed monitors from the Woodfox series built by Edward a few years ago. SB woofer and Vifa Bullet tweeter.

 

It was custom made though I think if I remember correctly Edward is a fan of transmission line designs so maybe the sealed enclosure design was a little out of his line of expertise. 

 

The speakers wore thin with me after a while and I had Paul Spencer of Red Spade audio design and build new crossovers as the speaker box and drivers were not bad quality.

 

Paul is old school taking measurements of the original speaker face up to the sky at the top of long pole and continued to do so as he developed the 4th order crossover, one each for the tweeter and woofer for each of the two speakers.

 

Turned something relatively ordinary into something pretty damn special and was able to maximize the inherent capabilities of the drivers & box and fashion them into a wonderful infinite baffle speaker, coherent and smooth top to bottom.

 

 

 

 

[bryansamui]

At the Moment ,I'm running my English Ruark Talisman Floorstanders  (Smallish 2 Ways) A fair bit of coin back in 1990 ($2,000) About 4 weeks wages for most. Fast , Agile and detailed.. bit lean in the bass.(Seas Drivers)You might spend $3,000 I would think today for similar?  I wonder now if those Ascensions are a move forward ? , 2 :: Whether he can make me something that is better? or 3::  Save my pennies and pay $3,000-$3,500  for a preloved pair of Harbeths?

[rantan]

Just now, bryansamui said:

At the Moment ,I'm running my English Ruark Talisman Floorstanders  (Smallish 2 Ways) A fair bit of coin back in 1990 ($2,000) About 4 weeks wages for most. Fast , Agile and detailed.. bit lean in the bass.(Seas Drivers)You might spend $3,000 I would think today for similar?  I wonder now if those Ascensions are a move forward ? , 2 :: Whether he can make me something that is better? or 3::  Save my pennies and pay $3,000-$3,500  for a preloved pair of Harbeths?

I doubt they are a step forward in any way and one gets what one pays for.

 

 

 

I

[bryansamui]

4 minutes ago, rantan said:

I doubt they are a step forward in any way and one gets what one pays for.

 

 

 

I

They may not be a step forward from my Ruarks. have not heard them. With respect to the view 'One gets what one pays for' I don't think so..  At the lower end of  market often you get a whole lot more than you pay for... At the middle price point You probably get what you pay for... and at the top end of the market you pay and pay for small increments of difference and for "Bragging Rights'  of the badge for which the well heeled are prepared to do.  Those products are not pretending to be value for money.. They are not chasing people like me trying to find a 'Giant Killer'price wise amoungst speakers. Apparantly Salk Speakers (Sold Direct USA )and Tekton(Sold Direct)  are examples of speakers that if retailed would be at least double their asking price and they cut out distributors and retailers,,, I just thought Ascension might be of the same ilk  and be way underpriced.

[rantan]

2 minutes ago, bryansamui said:

 With respect to the view 'One gets what one pays for' I don't think so..  At the lower end of  market often you get a whole lot more than you pay for.

I disagree and was in the audio trade for several decades,so I am very aware of what constitutes value for money.

  In any case I wish you well and I hope you find what you are looking for,but again , I would live with what you have and get something superior in time.

 

Cheers.

[bryansamui]

2 minutes ago, rantan said:

I disagree and was in the audio trade for several decades,so I am very aware of what constitutes value for money.

  In any case I wish you well and I hope you find what you are looking for,but again , I would live with what you have and get something superior in time.

 

Cheers.

Thanks Rantan.. I am not an expert in the Audio trade so respect your view... Must be quite different to the motor trade (I am an expert) where the bottom of the range Merc is an absolute 'Shocker' (noisy and rough and underpowered) is $30,000 more than than a Korean car and a whole lot worse. The irony is people pay a $30K premium for a inferior product in order to brag to the neighbours...

[Guest deanB]

The Wharfedale brand have a couple of 3 way standmount speakers on the market- Linton Heritage and Evo 4.2.

[bryansamui]

11 minutes ago, deanB said:

The Wharfedale brand have a couple of 3 way standmount speakers on the market- Linton Heritage and Evo 4.2.

Yes.. Saw that Dean.. I maybe have a listen when the country gets back to normal.. The Kef 103.2 reference (Vintage Stand Mount) is great too!... Rare as a dog that speaks Norweigian though.. People who've got them won't part with them.. very much BBC  sound.. like a LS3/5 with balls (more bass) A poor mans Harbeth.

[Sceeta]

bryansamui if you can audition Edward's speakers then at least you will be able to make an informed decision for yourself. If you are anything like me, I am happy with a great sound to my ears at a reasonable price. That allows me to spend more on my vinyl collection.  Pity you're not in Melbourne to come for a listen. Not disrespecting the opinions of anyone else here, just a suggestion. When you have a tight budget, one has to look for value for money. It's also a matter of finding synergy with all of the other components in your system. Mine is all tube based and I love the mellow flavor of tubes and maybe that's why I like AS so much as they just blend well with the rest of my system. Either way I hope you find what you are looking for.

[bryansamui]

Thanks Sceeta appreciate your input.. There are diamonds in the rough out there. I bought a new $450 'Audio Experience' tube preamp (YS Audio Hong Kong) Throws a wide deep 3D soundtage and bests my brothers expensive Conrad Johnson PV12.. You could spend $2,000 on something not as good.. 

[5L15]

5 hours ago, bryansamui said:

At the Moment ,I'm running my English Ruark Talisman Floorstanders  (Smallish 2 Ways) A fair bit of coin back in 1990 ($2,000) About 4 weeks wages for most. Fast , Agile and detailed.. bit lean in the bass.(Seas Drivers)You might spend $3,000 I would think today for similar?  I wonder now if those Ascensions are a move forward ? , 2 :: Whether he can make me something that is better? or 3::  Save my pennies and pay $3,000-$3,500  for a preloved pair of Harbeths?

 

You can save a couple of hundred $$$ by buying the standard Woodfox -823SQ in stead of the monitor version but I think that’s a discussion for you and AS on sound requirements.

On a side note have you given Legend Kurre’s a thought? Not sure where you are located in NSW but it is possible to Audition them and not be hampered by the states boarder lockdown.

 

http://www.legendspeakers.com.au/products-kurre/

 

I hope you find what you’re looking for!

[bryansamui]

30 minutes ago, 5L15 said:

 

You can save a couple of hundred $$$ by buying the standard Woodfox -823SQ in stead of the monitor version but I think that’s a discussion for you and AS on sound requirements.

On a side note have you given Legend Kurre’s a thought? Not sure where you are located in NSW but it is possible to Audition them and not be hampered by the states boarder lockdown.

 

http://www.legendspeakers.com.au/products-kurre/

 

I hope you find what you’re looking for!

Thanks 5L15..Hadn't considered the Legend Kurres.. At $2300 they've a grand more expensive so with that opens  up more choices yet again. They may be another that punches above their price point.. Another grand up from the Kurres, will get you some pre loved Harbeths.. If one had to 'Scratch the itch' again i dear say you wouldn't really lose any money on them.. The difficulty with regards my original post is in auditioning"factory direct" speakers. 

[Guest deanB]

Have you seen the Classified ad for the Kef Ref 201/2 @bryansamui?

[bryansamui]

8 hours ago, deanB said:

Have you seen the Classified ad for the Kef Ref 201/2 @bryansamui?

Yes.. What were they new? 6,7,8k i would think.. Possibly closer to that classic  tone i am chasing than the the newer Kefs too. .. Maybe save some more and wait til i can pull the trigger on some preowned Harbeths. Similar price to to these. Or buy a Troels Gravesen Classic 3 way kit and pay a DIYer to put together (awesome & famous) Maybe someone like Ascension would do it? Who knows. I guess in a perfect world i am hoping Ascensions 3 way is as good as Troels Gravesens 3 way Kit. Why wouldn't they be? They both use quality Scandinavian quality drivers. If its not as good, then it means the 'implementation' is not as good... or is my reasoning flawed? 

Edited April 13, 2020 by bryansamui

[Guest deanB]

Possibly flawed, Bryan. But only your ears can find the definitive answer. And therein lies the rub for speaker selections; getting satisfactory demonstrations isn't commonplace and taking leaps of faith is far from ideal. Edward's business model is flawed because of that but it is what it is and I can't argue the performance/price ratio. And his transmission line designs do make good music.

We're all a bit frozen in time for now. I actually like all your ideas but your best one is to keep saving the dosh. That will put you in the box seat.

[RoHo]

Look, it's not that difficult to stick three expensive drivers in an appropriate sized box.  What makes or breaks such a speaker, or any speaker really, is the crossover design.  Troels G has a world-wide good reputation and he publishes reasonably extensive measurements of his speakers.  And you really can tell a lot about how a speaker will sound from good measurements.  

You seem to like your Ruarks apart from "lean bass'?  How about trying a good subwoofer with digital EQ capability?  Good will make a big difference to the overall sound quality.

[JB82]

In my experience Adelaide Speakers are bargains .

 

They have new higher end models in development that I'll be interested in checking out once released.

[rocky500]

18 minutes ago, jaypbee82 said:

In my experience Adelaide Speakers are bargains .

 

I'm the same. They were some of the best speakers I owned at the time in their price bracket and sounded better to me than new higher priced name brands that I put them against.

I have since moved on and now own some Tekton speakers but really thought the Adelaide speakers were money very well spent.

Great quality cabinets, great drivers and an experienced designer who can put good crossovers together, to tie it all in for the price charged.

Edited April 14, 2020 by rocky500

[rantan]

21 minutes ago, rocky500 said:

I have since moved on and now own some Tekton speakers but really thought the Adelaide speakers were money very well spent.

.........and this is their niche in the market. A decent speaker for limited budgets and those just beginning the journey and there is merit in that.

With that said, I think second hand is a better way to go and you can get something premium, well run in at a huge discount to new.

[bryansamui]

On 14/04/2020 at 10:41 AM, RoHo said:

Look, it's not that difficult to stick three expensive drivers in an appropriate sized box.  What makes or breaks such a speaker, or any speaker really, is the crossover design.  Troels G has a world-wide good reputation and he publishes reasonably extensive measurements of his speakers.  And you really can tell a lot about how a speaker will sound from good measurements.  

You seem to like your Ruarks apart from "lean bass'?  How about trying a good subwoofer with digital EQ capability?  Good will make a big difference to the overall sound quality.

I have got a Tannoy 10" Sealed sub.. Horrible. Woolly sounding thing.. Won't integrate either . I don't really want to go that route. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by bryansamui