08Boss302 Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) Looking for some thoughts please and I hope this makes sense as I am still learning to understand some of this stuff! I’ve been really enjoying streaming since I picked up the Bluesound Node 2i. I use that with Tidal and Spotify but will probably rest with Tidal soon. At present I use the Bluesound and its dac and also my Oppo 205 and its dac/s. The Oppo will not full unpack MQA unless you use the USB input which I don’t have a laptop or pc close enough to use but I am ok with that. I do bypass the Bluesound dac when using the Oppo and for Tidal flac files obviously it’s not an issue and for Tidal MQA files its comes up with 48k LPCM (whatever that means) and shows HR on BlueOs app. When playing flac from Tidal via the Bluesound to the Oppo obviously there is no issue. Thanks to some advice from members here I also have learnt to use mconnect UPLP with Tidal to my Oppo 205. This bypasses the Bluesound completely and mconnect unpacks MQA shows 24bit 192khz on my Oppo. The only issue with mconnect is that it buffers so sometimes it is stalled and switching tracks is not is not as smooth as when using the Bluesound which I have hardwired. The bug has kind of hit me now and (I think) I’d like to invest in a stand-alone dac. I like the sound of the Bluesound and of the Oppo but wonder if I can make that incremental improvement? MQA is not a deal breaker for me but given my Tidal subscription offers its use I guess it would be nice – but not essential. If Spotify decide to offer flac I’d jump straight over as I much prefer there menu systems etc. and then MQA wouldn’t be a consideration at all. This has led me to a fair bit of research over the past few weeks and whilst auditioning seems a little difficult I thought it might be worth my gathering some thoughts from you all also. Right now I am thinking of either and in no order with my budget ideally upto say $1500. Denafrips Ares Mytek Liberty (which does provide full MQA compatibility) RME ADI-2 DAC Project Pre S2 Cambridge Audio Dac Magic Plus Schiit bitfrost multibit Schiit gungnir *Now I know some of these use ESS Sabre dacs and I am not sure if the Oppo has better than these or equal to, so I could be going about this in the wrong way – again I don’t understand the dac hierarchy but do know the Oppo has been very well reviewed for its dacs. Also, given most of these dacs will not give the full MQA unfold I’ve also read if I get a Roon subscription it will do the first part of the unpack and then I think it will be like how I am using the toslink cable from the bluesound to the Oppo – in that it will play that 48k LPCM? This should apply to all the dacs that are not MQA certified and will play HR and 48k LPCM? Not sure if I am correct with that as I am still learning but that’s how I understand it. Any information or schooling would be much appreciated and please if you want to throw a suggestion dac in the mix please do. thanks Guys. Edited September 5, 2019 by 08Boss302
08Boss302 Posted September 3, 2019 Author Posted September 3, 2019 No one with any thoughts or experiences on the above dacs? Going to reply/update my own thread haha It might be useful for someone down the line doing similar in the same price bracket so i'll update as i work through things and or make the purchase decision. scrap the Pro-Ject, after some more research it only unpacks MQA using USB input to which i dont have the access / set up for. Right now i think the logical 4 in alphabetical order are Denafrips Ares II Mytek Liberty RME ADI-2 Dac Schiit Bitfrost Multibit 1
08Boss302 Posted September 3, 2019 Author Posted September 3, 2019 haha, i wish, nah, it was more the green light to spend the $$ but its out of my pocket.
08Boss302 Posted September 4, 2019 Author Posted September 4, 2019 On 04/09/2019 at 5:53 AM, jaypbee82 said: How about this one in the classifieds - Expand Cheers, This was not on my radar but I'll have a look into it as i was considering the bitfrost which is a lower model. Right now i am kinda leaning toward the RME ADI 2 Dac or the Denafrips Ares II. The Mytek Liberty has some mixed opinions on being a bit brittle but its not out of the question for me yet. I cannot find a negative review or word said negatively about the RME or Denafrips. I prefer the screen on the RME as it provides great information but can get by without it on the Denafrips with its button light up. Obviuosly the sound is king either way. Both of these obviously negate the full unpack MQA aspect but I can always use the mconnect app to my Oppo or the Bluesound Node on the small occasions i choose MQA files. As one plus, the RME also has upgradeable firmware which the Denafrips to my understanding does not. RME have stated on their website said they do not forecast MQA support in the foreseeable future but nonetheless if they do its an upgrade they can send via a firmware update to their owners. I like this element of flexibility 1
a.dent Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 If you read Archimago's measurements of your Oppo 205 you will no doubt be very pleased. https://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/06/measurements-oppo-udp-205-part-1-output.html Also have a read of Audio Science Review and the position the 205 in the measurement hierarchy https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/master-sinad-distortion-comparison-graph-for-dacs.4814/ So why not just keep using the 205 and spend the Father's Day cash on some music or another area of your system. And a final comment on MQA. It won't provide any worthwhile SQ improvement over normal FLAC files but will help Bob Stuart finally make a profit. YMMV of course. 3
08Boss302 Posted September 4, 2019 Author Posted September 4, 2019 Thank you I'd read the audio science but not archimago. Will hook onto that now I've also had the gatti audio upgrade on mine, and I've always thought it reviewed well and more importantly performed well for our movies and as a CD/music file player. I use the 2ch option exclusively for music into my integrated amp and hdmi option to my avr for movies etc Extremely versatile piece of equipment. Certainly this exercise is not out of need but more want and or curiousity, that darn rabbit hole lol
lenticularis Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) Suggest you visit the Gieseler Audio website and search out the reviews of his DACs available as a compilation here on SNA. I'm listening Day 2 to Clay Gieseler's budget Klein III ($650) and loving what it gives me (rest of system in signature block). I had the Schiit Modi 3 and was quite happy, but the Klein III is another level of detail, enjoyment and ease of listening for extended periods (all styles of music being tested). I have written more in the Klein III Owners thread. Your budget sounds like it extends close to his Fein range. I have no involvement with Gieseler Audio - I'm just another happy customer supporting local audio-engineering talent. Edited September 5, 2019 by lenticularis Typo 2
Wimbo Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 I'd just use the Oppo mate and put the $1500 as a down payment on a Harley.
rantan Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 On 05/09/2019 at 8:28 AM, Wimbo said: I'd just use the Oppo mate and put the $1500 as a down payment on a Harley. Expand Yeah. Only $25K to go after that.
Wimbo Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 On 05/09/2019 at 8:30 AM, rantan said: Yeah. Only $25K to go after that. Expand Interest rates are low atm. And they last for ages. My bike isnt even rubber mounted, still going strong and 35 years old.
rantan Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 On 05/09/2019 at 8:33 AM, Wimbo said: Interest rates are low atm. And they last for ages. My bike isnt even rubber mounted, still going strong and 35 years old. Expand Tru dat. This is what I would buy. For a lot less money. https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com.au/motorcycles/classic/bonneville-speedmaster 1
08Boss302 Posted September 5, 2019 Author Posted September 5, 2019 Haha Not sure the kindness green light would extend that far I see a giesler grob in the classifieds, I have read great things. Will read up a bit more
Wimbo Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 On 05/09/2019 at 8:40 AM, rantan said: Tru dat. This is what I would buy. For a lot less money. https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com.au/motorcycles/classic/bonneville-speedmaster Expand Dearer then a Sporty. $22,000. Nice look though Pardon @08Boss302 for the
Wimbo Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 On 05/09/2019 at 10:05 AM, 08Boss302 said: Haha Not sure the kindness green light would extend that far I see a giesler grob in the classifieds, I have read great things. Will read up a bit more Expand See if you can get a loan of one and compare it to the Oppo.
08Boss302 Posted September 5, 2019 Author Posted September 5, 2019 On 05/09/2019 at 10:30 PM, Wimbo said: Dearer then a Sporty. $22,000. Nice look though Pardon @08Boss302 for the Expand It's no issue, it's good to go off topic and have a laugh I was always more into the jap sports bikes, ninja, r1, tl1000r. I'm riding nothing these days tho, kinda lost the bug.
lenticularis Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 Clay Gieseler might have a demo Fein available. The Fein replaced the Gross.
08Boss302 Posted September 5, 2019 Author Posted September 5, 2019 It's Prob getting out my price range tbh I think this weekend I'll spend time running via the oppo. I may stop there?! There are a few stores with the Rme I'll see what sort deals are available. I may end up not doing anything but I'll run thru the exercise of running via the oppo and tinker with the filters and there's no harm in getting some price indication on the Rme from stores I guess
ikhuong Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 I used to go this path of thinking on upgrading an external DAC from built-in in the streamer but I do not think any DAC $1500 can give you a real sonic jump compare to Oppo or Bluesound built-in DAC. The improvement from this price range will be subtle. I think you should save the budget for real game-changer DAC in the future which is normally from 5k and above. 1
08Boss302 Posted September 6, 2019 Author Posted September 6, 2019 Listening to Tidal via the Oppo now and it's definitely more open, wouldn't say jaw dropping change but switching back and forth it's certainly noticeable - my wife even noticed it. Its an incremental step up - minor but there... I'm very impressed with Oppo actually, I've tinkered a bit with the filters and I'm really enjoying the night and tunes coming out. Playing via the Oppo has also widened the gap between Spotify and Tidal for me, using the node 2i I felt the difference was negligible but via the Oppo its clearly noticeable. Same with my FLAC files also. None of this is to say the node 2i dac is bad, quite the opposite but it's obvious to me enhancement is possible. $5k on a dac is not within my grade but I reckon I'd still have a win and smile around that $1500 mark... If that sits at parallels to the Oppo performance I'm not sure. It gives me something to consider tho, and it might end up that I just use and keep enjoying the Oppo and save the $$ for vinyl which is still my main go to (tho this streaming and networking thing has me quite excited)
Gieseler Audio Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 Hey just a thought. I currently have my 3-input demo Fein II DAC in Melbourne so you are more than welcome to try it in your system & see if you notice a worthwhile improvement. I would need to know ASAP tho as it is scheduled to go to Brisbane on Monday. It is currently with SNA member Mat-With-one-t in Thornbury It is a little over your budget but I could certainly do an attractive price being a demo unit. Anyway something to consider. Cheers Clay 2
A J Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 On 06/09/2019 at 9:30 PM, Gieseler Audio said: SNA member Mat-With-one-t in Thornbury Graduated to Mat with three inputs 1
08Boss302 Posted September 6, 2019 Author Posted September 6, 2019 On 06/09/2019 at 9:30 PM, Gieseler Audio said: Hey just a thought. I currently have my 3-input demo Fein II DAC in Melbourne so you are more than welcome to try it in your system & see if you notice a worthwhile improvement. I would need to know ASAP tho as it is scheduled to go to Brisbane on Monday. It is currently with SNA member Mat-With-one-t in Thornbury It is a little over your budget but I could certainly do an attractive price being a demo unit. Anyway something to consider. Cheers Clay Expand Hi Clay and thank you! Ironically, I actually work 5min from Thornbury and live about 25 min from there. Your offer is greatly appreciated but i'd be needing the 3 input version to work in my system and even with a demo price I cannot see it fitting the budget. I have a habit of always blowing budget but on this one I need to stick firm to the $$. I dont want to waste anyones time or delay someone elses audition putting into their system just so i can hear it - probably love it - then not be in a position to buy it LOL I have read wonderful things about your products, the GroB comes up every so often here in the classifieds and generally falls into my price range so that one might be more where I am at. Again, thank you though for your thought and offer. It demonstrates how good your customer service is and also how great the SnA community is! cheers. 1
Gieseler Audio Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 No problem - just thought I’d mention it before it leaves town 1
Recommended Posts