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Posted (edited)

Hi Everyone,

 

I've decided to build a new 2.1 stereo system to play music and watch movies. The space is very large, with the living room, the kitchen, and the dining room all open to each other.

 

So far I've picked the SVS PB-1000 Pro subwoofer, and the Dynaudio Emit 50 floorstanding speakers. I'm finding it hard to find a suitable amplifier that will drive the Emit 50's (240 watt into 4 ohm) and has a frequency response low enough for the PB-1000 Pro (17hz). I've identified the Musical Fidelity M6SI or maybe the M5SI. But they're out of my budget.

 

The Yamaha A-S701 is within my budget but only has an output of 160 watt x 2. Would this be enough to drive the Emit 50's?

 

Or does anyone know of an integrated amplifier that would suit my needs?

 

Many Thanks,

Alun.

Edited by Alun

Posted

The PB-1000 Pro doesn't need wattage/power from the amp - it just needs a pre-out from your control amp for timing.

For low cost wattage it's worth looking at these newer iterations of class d amps - they measure very well.

A preamp would be needed (but the thousands you save on an integrated could fund that).

For Australian-made class d, March Audio, highly regarded (and occasionally for sale in the classifieds here)

Posted

Thanks for your prompt response. Th 3e Audio a7 and the Marchaudio P282-1 look interesting.

 

Yes. I forgot to mention. I'll need a pre-out for the subwoofer, as it's powered.

 

If you don't mind me asking, how do I get a separate pre-amp to the sub-woofer? Since I'll be controlling the volume from the amplifier. I'm guessing I'll have to control the volume of the sub-woofer separately? I'm trying to avoid that as I want to balance the whole system then just control the volume up and down from one device.

 

 

Posted (edited)

The SVS Pro subs come with a very useful phone app, you have a host of settings (roll off, volume, etc.) to control via the app.

You can set it up and use it as "set and forget" - or, as music or home theatre requires, increase the volume as needed.

-

So the chain is still the same, the power amp is controlled by the pre-amp and has the inputs for your sources. Select a pre-amp that has a pre-out so that you can connect your SVS.

Edited by Steff
Posted

So I guess the chain is this?

 

I attach the inputs from my devices to the pre-amp. The pre-amp outputs signals to my power amp and pre-out to my active subwoofer. I power the floorstanding speakers from my power amp.

 

I control the volume for the entire system from the pre-amp.

 

The cost of a separate pre-amp and power amp would be cheaper than purchasing an integrated amplifier.

 

If this is so, I think I need to do another round of research and shopping.

  • Like 1

Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Alun said:

cost of a separate pre-amp and power amp would be cheaper than purchasing an integrated amplifier.

 

Frankly, the sky is the limit for any piece of equipment. There are well-regarded inexpensive units like a Topping but they come without a remote, or phono stage, or Emotiva with in-built DAC, or Eversolo DMP8....and Anthem, Parasound, and many more until...if you keep looking upward your eyes turn to Audio Research :yes:

Edited by Steff
Posted
On 23/12/2024 at 11:25 PM, Alun said:

So I guess the chain is this?

 

I attach the inputs from my devices to the pre-amp. The pre-amp outputs signals to my power amp and pre-out to my active subwoofer. I power the floorstanding speakers from my power amp.

 

I control the volume for the entire system from the pre-amp.

 

The cost of a separate pre-amp and power amp would be cheaper than purchasing an integrated amplifier.

 

If this is so, I think I need to do another round of research and shopping.

 

Yes, you have it right.  👍

 

However!!!:

 

On 23/12/2024 at 11:25 PM, Alun said:

I attach the inputs from my devices to the pre-amp. The pre-amp output sends signals to my power amp and to my active subwoofer. I power the floorstanding speakers from my power amp.

 

I control the volume for the entire system from the pre-amp.

 

This: "The pre-amp outputs sends signals to my power amp and to my active subwoofer" ... means your preamp should, ideally, have two outputs, each channel.  If it doesn't ... then you need to employ some RCA 'U-connectors' or 'T-connectors' which allow you to take 2 cables from each preamp output channel:

  • one to the power amp
  • and one to the sub.

 

Posted

I agree with the recommendation to go with class d, regardless of whether you decide on an integrated or separates because you will be able to get more power for your money.  Buy the maximum amount of power that your speakers can handle if you can afford it.  Every doubling of power provides 3 db of sound pressure level.  So how much is that?  1 db is approximately the minimum amount that the human ear can hear at all, and 10 db would be approximately double the baseline.  So 3 db would be approximately a 20% increase in loudness.  So for your big room, you need all the power you can get for your speakers, which is where I started.  Your sub is self powered, all you need is a standard interconnect.  Many preamps and these days many integrated amps will provide an extra set of output jacks for this purpose.  Otherwise consult with the owners manual for your sub for connection options.

  • Like 2
Posted

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

So far I've found these:

 

Preamplifier - Fosi Audio P4 Preamplifier

This is yet to be released. But it looks like it has all the connections I need. I don't know the frequency response though.

 

Power amplifier

3e Audio A7 Stereo Amplifier with 48 Volt 10 Amp power supply. This looks promising. The frequency response matches the speakers (25 KHz) and there seems to be enough power (260 Watt x 2). However, I can't seem to find the 48 Volt 10 Amp model on the Aliexpress website for ordering.

 

Alternative power amplifier

Fosi Audio V3 300 Watt x 2 Stereo Amplifier with 48 Volt 10 Amp power supply. This has the power needed. However, the frequency response is only up to 20 KHz.

 

Integrated Amplifier

Yamaha A-S701. This has a nice frequency response. However, the power is lacking (160 Watt x 2)

 

What do you all think of this shortlist?

Posted

 @Alun, you listed your spkrs as Dynaudio Emit 50s.  As such, with these specs:

 

image.png.ef438b1b92944c5638dabf848123124a.png

 

 

... you need to find out from the specs of the amplifiers on your list, which one is happy driving a 4-ohm load.

 

For instance, you say the Fosi Audio V3 is 300w x 2.  Is this into 8 ohms ... or 4 ohms?  If it is into 8 ohms then:

  • if the output into 4 ohms is at least 500w ... then it should be capable of driving 4 ohms well.
  • but if the output is only 400w into 4 ohms ... it won't be a good performer into 4 ohms.

Alternatively, if the output is 300w into 4 ohms, then:

  • the output into ohms is 150w ... then it should be capable of driving 4 ohms well.
  • but if the output is only 200 into 8 ohms ... it won't be a good performer into 4 ohms.

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Posted (edited)

Hi andyr

 

Yes. I've been looking at the 4 ohm ratings of the power amplifiers. The Fosi Audio V3 power amplifier is rated at 300 Watt into 4 ohms x 2.

Edited by Alun
Posted
10 minutes ago, Alun said:

Hi andyr

 

Yes. I've been looking at the 4 ohm ratings of the power amplifiers. The Fosi Audio V3 power amplifier is rated at 300 Watt into 4 ohms x 2.

 

OK, so what's its rating into an 8ohm load?

 

With "suss" amp mfrs, if they quote an amp's power rating ... it will always be into 4 ohms - as this is nearly always higher than the power into 8 ohms.  So they quote the 4ohm rating to mislead buyers as to the amp's power rating.

 

An amp which performs well into 4 ohms needs to have a robust power supply (as, in general, a 4ohm load sucks more power than an 8 ohm load).  So an amp which delivers 150w into 8 ohms and 300w into 4 ohms ... will perform well into 4 ohms; however, an amp which is specced at 250w into 8 ohms and 300w into 4 ohms ... won't.

 

  • Volunteer
Posted

There are measurements on AudioscienceReview of the Fosi V3 with the 32v and 48v power supplies. 
Maybe I’m reading them wrong but it doesn’t seem to get anywhere near 300w

Posted
9 hours ago, andyr said:

 

OK, so what's its rating into an 8ohm load?

 

It's rating into an 8 ohm load is 150 Watt. I'm not sure of what you're trying to say. Are you saying that the power amplifier needs a high rated power supply? Because I specified the 48 Volt 10 Amp model.

Posted
7 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

There are measurements on AudioscienceReview of the Fosi V3 with the 32v and 48v power supplies. 
Maybe I’m reading them wrong but it doesn’t seem to get anywhere near 300w

I see that they've tested the 32v (62W) and 48v 5 Amp (191.1W) power supplies. Not the 10 Amp power supply. I could be wrong though. 

 

I'm more concerned about the frequency response of this amplifier. As it only goes up to 20khz. The Dynaudio Emit 50's speakers go up to 25khz. It seems like a waste if I don't use the frequency range. Which is why I'd rather get the 3e Audio A7 Stereo Amplifier. But I can't find the 48V 10A version for ordering.

 

I'm open to suggestions from the brains trust here though. There are just too many brands and options for me to look up.

Posted
22 minutes ago, Alun said:

It's rating into an 8 ohm load is 150 Watt. I'm not sure of what you're trying to say. Are you saying that the power amplifier needs a high rated power supply? Because I specified the 48 Volt 10 Amp model.

 

Sort of!  I'm trying to say that an amp which will drive your 4ohm Dynaudio Emit 50s well ... needs to have a power rating into 4 ohms which is double (or very nearly) its power rating at 8 ohms.  Any amp which can do this ... has an excellent power supply.

 

I have NFI what the Class D amps you are considering cost - but one amp which I suspect will be able to drive your Emit 50s well ... is the March Audio P282 stereo amp: 145w into 8 ohms and (great!) 285w into 4 ohms.

 

  • Like 2
  • Volunteer
Posted
2 hours ago, Alun said:

I see that they've tested the 32v (62W) and 48v 5 Amp (191.1W) power supplies. Not the 10 Amp power supply. I could be wrong though. 

 

Even so, Fosi claims 125W (Peak) into 4 ohms with the 32v supply. ASR measured 83w 

Fosi claims 260W (peak) into 4 ohms with the 48v 5 Amp. ASR measured 191w

So I would take their 300w claim with a large grain of salt

 

2 hours ago, Alun said:

As it only goes up to 20khz. The Dynaudio Emit 50's speakers go up to 25khz. It seems like a waste if I don't use the frequency range

 

I wouldn't worry about anything above 20khz, you can't hear it (none of us can. In fact depending on your age you probably can't even hear up to 20khz)

 

What I would worry about is that the Fosi seems to have a load dependant (ie not flat) frequency response from around 10khz which is certainly in the audible range

 

  • Like 1
Posted

This whole discussion underlines an important point:  Specifications can only take you so far.  Let me illustrate by discussing loudspeaker impedance ratings.  Any speaker.  The rating provided by the manufacturer is a nominal rating, not an absolute value.  That is because the impedance of speakers, all speakers will vary, often by quite a range across the frequency spectrum of the music that the speaker is reproducing.  That nominal 4 ohm speaker could dip to as low as 2 ohms and as high as 16 ohms or more at certain frequencies all within the audible spectrum.  Amplifiers will vary too, in their ability to cope with these variations in speaker load, which is why the final decisions about which amplifier mates best with which speaker cannot be determined without hooking them up and listening to them.  The most important lesson you can learn here is that specs are no substitute for ears, and the most important ears are your ears.  Use this discussion as a useful guide, but in the end you are going to have to connect amplifier to speakers, preferably in your room.  You should try to choose your vendors with care, hopefully ones with liberal return policies so that if your ears tell you that you made a bad choice you have recourse and can make a correction without harm or at least minimal expense. 

  • Like 3
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Alun said:

I'm more concerned about the frequency response of this amplifier. As it only goes up to 20khz. The Dynaudio Emit 50's speakers go up to 25khz.

I think you're way too concerned about about specs that frankly don't mean much at all. Anyway this perhaps.

 

It's much more important to get the amp/speaker match right rather than the specs/watts. Most amps with 100w/ch+ should drive those speakers to their best ability IMO. 

Edited by blakey72
Posted
On 28/12/2024 at 10:48 PM, sir sanders zingmore said:

What I would worry about is that the Fosi seems to have a load dependant (ie not flat) frequency response from around 10khz which is certainly in the audible range

 

It seems that the collective wisdom is to stay away from the Fosi V3?

Posted
13 hours ago, blakey72 said:

I think you're way too concerned about about specs that frankly don't mean much at all. Anyway this perhaps.

 

It's much more important to get the amp/speaker match right rather than the specs/watts. Most amps with 100w/ch+ should drive those speakers to their best ability IMO. 

If 100 Watt per channel + should drive the Emit 50's then I think I'll go with the Yamaha A-S701 Integrated Amplifier. For the simple reason that it comes with all the inputs (RCA) and outputs I need (1 set of passive speakers and subwoofer out), and as a bonus it comes with a remote control. Nothing else I've found comes close to it for features or price. A quick search shows that I can get it for under AUD $1100 which is within my budget.

 

Unless the collective mind has any other suggestion?

  • Like 1
Posted
9 hours ago, Alun said:

If 100 Watt per channel + should drive the Emit 50's then I think I'll go with the Yamaha A-S701 Integrated Amplifier. For the simple reason that it comes with all the inputs (RCA) and outputs I need (1 set of passive speakers and subwoofer out), and as a bonus it comes with a remote control. Nothing else I've found comes close to it for features or price. A quick search shows that I can get it for under AUD $1100 which is within my budget.

 

Sensible choice, then!  👍

 

However, apart from a spkr's efficiency ... there is also the matter of the load it presents to the amplifier.  The Emits are 4 ohm - and the specs for the Yamaha A-S701 carefully avoid specifying power into a 4 ohm load.

 

Now you said "So far I've picked the SVS PB-1000 Pro subwoofer, and the Dynaudio Emit 50 floorstanding speakers".  If "picked" means ... that's your choice - but you haven't actually bought them, if you want to buy the A-S701 because of all its features ... maybe consider some different spkrs that have a similar efficiency rating but are rated at 8 ohms?

 

Posted
8 hours ago, Alun said:

If 100 Watt per channel + should drive the Emit 50's then I think I'll go with the Yamaha A-S701 Integrated Amplifier. For the simple reason that it comes with all the inputs (RCA) and outputs I need (1 set of passive speakers and subwoofer out), and as a bonus it comes with a remote control. Nothing else I've found comes close to it for features or price. A quick search shows that I can get it for under AUD $1100 which is within my budget.

 

Unless the collective mind has any other suggestion?

I think it's probably the best choice for your budget unless you went second hand however that opens another can of worms. Which to get, shipping costs and reliability etc. 

 

It is probably the hardest budget IMO as there isn't a large number of options. Basically NAD, Rotel, WIIM, AMC, Denon, Marantz and Yamaha are the choices and they are very basic models. 

 

The Yamaha A-S701 is a budget amp I looked at and probably would be my pic. It should give you around 180w/ch into those speakers which should be ample.

Posted
21 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Sensible choice, then!  👍

 

there is also the matter of the load it presents to the amplifier.  The Emits are 4 ohm - and the specs for the Yamaha A-S701 carefully avoid specifying power into a 4 ohm load.

Hi Andy. Yeah exactly what I was looking at. I found this lab test which states 183w/ch at 4 ohms. I haven't read through it so don't know if it does it easily. 

  • Volunteer
Posted
1 hour ago, andyr said:

Yamaha A-S701 carefully avoid specifying power into a 4 ohm load.

They’ve been tested into 4 ohms and (as already mentioned), put out 183w. 
So, depending on @Alun’s listening setup and listening volume, that should be fine…


@Alun, as also mentioned in the thread, maybe don’t just rely on specs. If you are able to arrange an audition in your room with your speakers, you really should do that. 

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