betty boop Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ittaku said: Hum is a real drag. Having a modern expensive system that produces hum is really something I couldn't get over and refused to tolerate, sending back a preamp that had otherwise great sound. CJ are beautiful sounding amps but budget then puts you into another category entirely with ARC and the like. ARC are up there...but so is the PL EVO .... we are talking upwards of $7k ! keeping in mind both brands resale is such they collapse in price 2nd hand... can pick up a arc vsi60 for ~$3k how expensive is the CJ and what are we looking at thats comparable to ARC. I'm not aware of any gutsy tube integrated they do only hybrids ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigar nuke Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 I think the AR vsi75 is within my budget. Would this be a step up from EVO 400? I see it advertised new for about 13k.... The lights on the front look VERY bright which I hate in a sark room. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Cigar nuke said: I think the AR vsi75 is within my budget. Would this be a step up from EVO 400? I see it advertised new for about 13k.... The lights on the front look VERY bright which I hate in a sark room. there is a bit of a comparison online with a focal floor stander... but I would hesitate to post here. as gives me the shudders can google.... ps that was with PL HP and non HP ie el34 vs vsi75 se with the kt150 am pretty sure. said presenter and audience I *think* suggested not much in it. but I am not game to take much more from it. probably best to compare both for self to decide and especially with your speakers yep the ARC is missing a few things and not sure totally on the design either .... though its a swish unit that id be sure. but the cost .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) I assume you mean the upscale audio comparison. Bear in mind upscale audio sell PrimaLuna gear. Everyone knows I'm a big ARC fan, and have ARC gear myself, but I can't say I've ever auditioned the VSi75, but I have auditioned the Ref75SE which it takes elements from and that amp is simply superb. It is their trickle down model, but they don't make any other integrateds currently. I'm not aware of any CJ integrateds to be honest. Edited April 19, 2019 by Ittaku 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 By the way, there's an ex-demo one for sale at 9k https://www.lifestylestore.com.au/audio-research-vsi75-integrated-amplifier-1-ex-demonstration-unit.html 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ittaku said: By the way, there's an ex-demo one for sale at 9k https://www.lifestylestore.com.au/audio-research-vsi75-integrated-amplifier-1-ex-demonstration-unit.html thats not the SE though .... with the 150s am pretty sure all now come with 150s now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 minute ago, betty boop said: thats not the SE though .... with the 150s am pretty sure all come with 150s now There is no VSi75SE, only the ref75 comes in an SE. Not sure why that one has KT120s in the picture though, unless they kept the model designation while changing the design which is uncharacteristic of ARC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Just now, Ittaku said: There is no VSi75SE, only the ref75 comes in an SE. Not sure why that one has KT120s in the picture though, unless they kept the model designation while changing the design which is uncharacteristic of ARC. dont know everyone is selling it as a VSi 75SE.... and comes with the upspec tubes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, betty boop said: dont know everyone is selling it as a VSi 75SE.... and comes with the upspec tubes... I'm so confused... but that would make complete sense, except for their own website saying otherwise... http://www.audioresearch.com/en-us/products/integrated-amplifiers/vsi75 I certainly wouldn't be buying the KT120 based one. Even the local AU distributor calls it a 75SE. https://www.synergyaudio.com/product/ar-vsi75se-natural/ Edited April 19, 2019 by Ittaku 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, Ittaku said: Even the local AU distributor calls it a 75SE. https://www.synergyaudio.com/product/ar-vsi75se-natural/ yep as does CAV... I;d say its coming from the local distributor... and its upped the price as will expect as well I suppose with upset valves. good that even according to arc the chassis power supply etc was designed with kt150 in mind.... https://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/audio-research-vsi75.html Audio Research VSI75 SE....Now with KT150 Valves Be the first to review this product Significant step-up from the VSi60 in every meaningful way Muscular 75 watts per channel, 50% more than the VSi60 New low profile anodized front panel Power transformer designed around the new (4x) KT150 output tubes Incorporates some key parts from the REF75 including proprietary coupling caps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade74 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Where are you located Cigar Nuke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigar nuke Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 Melbourne’s North East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigar nuke Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 Who sells Primaluna in Melbourne? I think given the comparison with ARC vsi75 using KT150’s and the previous version of Primalunatic - an audition of the newer EVO is a must and a likely front runner on paper - even if it is a bit Ug A Lee IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 https://www.stereophonic.com.au/brands/PrimaLuna.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ittaku said: https://www.stereophonic.com.au/brands/PrimaLuna.html they sell cayin as well it seems that said carlton audio visual appear to sell both audio research and prima luna so maybe check them both out... I'd ring any dealer to check before heading out 18 minutes ago, Cigar nuke said: even if it is a bit Ug A Lee IMHO. who you calling ugly that said either you mention are hardly in the looker department ! ps if in melbournes north you'd be crazy to not pop into greg osborn to check out the opera consonance. am pretty sure he'd let you take home too to check out be able to advise which he thinks would suit best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigar nuke Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 I really found this review on the vsi75 with the KT150s more helpful with great pictures including a pic of the remote https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/integrated-amplifiers/audio-research-vsi75-integrated-amplifier-review/ seriously....no headphone jack. And audio reference don’t even stick one on the similarly priced tube phono stage! This is not a deal breaker but seriously if you bought a 13k stage and 13k amp and still don’t have a headphone jack what the.... I have ave a nice pair of Denon but I don’t use them much but in my study I might as it is closer to rest of house. So less noise for me, and less noise for “them”. I note the EVO 400 integrated does have a headphone jack. Not sure about consonance but will look it up. Still, plenty of phono stages have a jack I guess. Although my preferred option the Manley Chinook does not. I do own a Lehman Black Cube Linear Headphone Amp so I think I can use that. I’ve only ever had it plugged into my laptop via USB so not sure how it would work in a set up if phono stage / amp has no jack.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 I think for your purposes you'll be more than happy with the consonance to be honest. You'll get the KT150 sonic signature and a lot more power out of them compared to either the prima or the arc. It then gives you more budget to play with the rest of the components since you still need yourself a phono stage etc. Although the consonance is 110W on the 4 ohm taps, you'll be putting what is effectively 8 ohm speakers on the 4 ohm taps so it will be like you're putting 55W on them. The ARC and Prima are less power with half the tubes. The only caveat as I said is whether the 880i should really be furbished with KT150s or whether you should be using the 800 monoblocks instead which were designed for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ittaku said: I think for your purposes you'll be more than happy with the consonance to be honest. You'll get the KT150 sonic signature and a lot more power out of them compared to either the prima or the arc. It then gives you more budget to play with the rest of the components since you still need yourself a phono stage etc. Although the consonance is 110W on the 4 ohm taps, you'll be putting what is effectively 8 ohm speakers on the 4 ohm taps so it will be like you're putting 55W on them. The ARC and Prima are less power with half the tubes. The only caveat as I said is whether the 880i should really be furbished with KT150s or whether you should be using the 800 monoblocks instead which were designed for them. thats the thing am not sure were they designed for kt150 ? I know the arc is and sure the prima luna is as well, infact it has the greatest tube compatibility of the lot I think, that said what have heard of the EL34 I quite like https://www.primaluna-usa.com/primaluna-evo-400-tube-integrated "With PrimaLuna, you get to choose. Go for it. 6L6G, 6L6GC, 7581A, EL34, EL37, 6550, KT66, KT77, KT88, KT90, KT120, even the monstrous KT150. A future-proof design, PrimaLuna is compatible with NEW tube types not even thought of today!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 18 minutes ago, Cigar nuke said: I really found this review on the vsi75 with the KT150s more helpful with great pictures including a pic of the remote https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/integrated-amplifiers/audio-research-vsi75-integrated-amplifier-review/ indeed good review wiht some good pictures there, 18 minutes ago, Cigar nuke said: seriously....no headphone jack. And audio reference don’t even stick one on the similarly priced tube phono stage! This is not a deal breaker but seriously if you bought a 13k stage and 13k amp and still don’t have a headphone jack what the.... I do believe tube jobbies like the cary sli100 and the prima luna evo 400 come with quite decent headphone stage as well. it doesn't bother me I have a good little valve headphone amp in the little earmax. where perhaps the arc approach is that of stripped back and has a sense of purity... that said I was suprised it somehow weighs about half the others as well... so not really getting as much heft for your money if important. is it going the less is more approach though... sound quality is the peach though... other things distractions in my books .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 That's why I was talking about the monoblocks which ARE made for the KT150s. I think they'd make a great match with say a Supratek Cortese preamp which has a phono stage. However they're now 4 separates instead of one integrated which the OP was trying to avoid due to real estate limitations. It also leaves him without a headphone output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweaky Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 (edited) Cigar Nuke. I think I have found your ideal integrated tube amp......it's not going to be cheap, and I don't know who is the distributor of Copland amplification ATM....EDIT: There is No Austarlian distributor.....OH, temping to import direct, get it basically at half price Like Harbeth Speakers used to be able to be landed, prior to current Aus distributor being appointed, used to cost less than half current prices if imported direct from the manufacturer, and that was after all Shipping, GST and currency conversion costs was factored for It's been reviewed in the current April 2019 [If you get the air freighted issues] of the UK HiFi news and Record Review..... sorry, I left the issue in the Library [Bathroom] and forgot all about it. COPLAND CTA408...95 wpc....test results were output into 8/4/2/1 Ohms ... 110w/100w/155w/160w. It looks amazing as well. http://copland.dk/produkter-liste/ https://hifipig.com/copland-cta408-integrated-amplifier/ Edited April 20, 2019 by Tweaky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 @Tweaky copland have always made gorgeous things... a real pity the valves are hidden aways there though in what looks like a computer PC case l ! @Cigar nuke I spent some time at class A audio today, kevin there happens to have a bit of a collection of valve integrateds and as happens has some focal stand mounts pretty similar to mine that meant could get a pretty good representative in store demo between a few things even trying a SS option. I also saw he had a B&W 805 in store, so possibly it might be worth a place to visit as well will post a bit more in my WTB thread so can put that one to bed.... as I ended up taking something home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batty Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 I have owned Copland amps since 1995, although not the pure valve amps but the hybrid, they are very good. I have however just built a First Watt M2x power amp, class A and only 25 watts, very very good indeed, so maybe look at the Pass Labs amps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigar nuke Posted April 20, 2019 Author Share Posted April 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Tweaky said: Cigar Nuke. I think I have found your ideal integrated tube amp......it's not going to be cheap, and I don't know who is the distributor of Copland amplification Tweaky thank you. I love you guys for your enthusiasm in helping me with my first world problems! ...but I agree with Betty (?Al) - looks like a computer case. And that’s a deal breaker - as I mentioned in my original posts - aesthetics are important to me. I gotta stare at this thing for hours on end after all And for my first foray into tubes - I at least wanna be able to see them! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigar nuke Posted April 21, 2019 Author Share Posted April 21, 2019 Hi guys, I have a specific question about the PL EVO and the KT150 tubes. The PL comes stock with EL34s. I saw that the price of the KT150s is $345 each and the PL takes 8 of them? So that’s ~ $2800 on top of the purchase price which puts it much closer to the ARC vsi75 SE which comes with 150s as standard. Now I might prefer the EL34 cause I ain’t even heard this thing, or I assume I could just get it with 150s and not pay the $80 each for the EL34 although I would probably just end up with both so I could swap them from time to time.... Just sayin....or have I made an error? Cause that means the PL Evo with KT150s is a 10K option now and not that far off the ARC vsi75?...and I bet the ARC price is more “negotiable” than the PL. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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