JVC DLA-N5/DLA-N7/DLA-NX9 Owners Discussion Thread

[IMDave]

7 hours ago, waikis said:

2.8 is out

https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/download/dla-nx9_dla-nx7_dla-nx5_dla-n7_dla-n5_dla-n11_dla-n8_dla-n6_dla-rs3000_dla-rs2000_dla-rs1000/

Seeing that JVC have acknowledged this current model will be carrying over for another year, it's great to see these firmware updates coming out. Not sure which "Stability issues" are being resolved by 2.8, but it would be great if someone notices a improvement.

My biggest issue with this generation is the green or purple bars. The fact that it can appear any time from 0 - 300+ hours is a time bomb I am just not prepared to risk. So I'll be sticking with my X7000 for a while yet.

But it would be great if JVC could confirm that 2.8 fixes that issue.

[shartm]

Now I have a Epson 9400, want to get true 4K. I have before me two options - the Sony 570 and a JVC N5. Planned the latest, but scares number of potential problems. Most importantly - "the bright corners." Someone here wrote that very clearly seen in scenes like the one in "Strange things" Eleven is in a "different world" - a small figure in black. From here a question to owners of N series - is it possible to completely mask the light angles / spots in these scenes closing the aperture to -9/-10 while using DI or decrease brightness without black crush?

[oztheatre]

12 hours ago, shartm said:

Now I have a Epson 9400, want to get true 4K. I have before me two options - the Sony 570 and a JVC N5. Planned the latest, but scares number of potential problems. Most importantly - "the bright corners." Someone here wrote that very clearly seen in scenes like the one in "Strange things" Eleven is in a "different world" - a small figure in black. From here a question to owners of N series - is it possible to completely mask the light angles / spots in these scenes closing the aperture to -9/-10 while using DI or decrease brightness without black crush?

Don't get sucked in by pixels mate. The epson has a better lens. You can have 20K projector with a billion pixels on the screen, if the lens is not up to it, you don't have a 20k projector. Optics are way more important than the amount of pixels. Keep what you have it's a brilliant projector.

[Michael391]

Interesting over on avs that there is talk that the next firmware for these projectors is going to be pretty significant. When ever cedia or ifa is on they will be showing it off.
The rumor is a hdr 10+ coming(dynamic tone mapping) to the nx line, but we’ll see.

[oztheatre]

46 minutes ago, Michael391 said:

Interesting over on avs that there is talk that the next firmware for these projectors is going to be pretty significant. When ever cedia or ifa is on they will be showing it off.
The rumor is a hdr 10+ coming(dynamic tone mapping) to the nx line, but we’ll see.

I'm glad they're sticking with these models and not bowing to pressure to put out new ones because someone else does. 

Last firmware update I heard they eased off on the dynamic iris settings which dropped contrast.. So let's see where this goes. 

[IMDave]

7 hours ago, Michael391 said:

Interesting over on avs that there is talk that the next firmware for these projectors is going to be pretty significant. When ever cedia or ifa is on they will be showing it off.
The rumor is a hdr 10+ coming(dynamic tone mapping) to the nx line, but we’ll see.

How many 4k UHD discs are encoded with HDR 10+?

A quick Google search is telling me 2 ( Bohemian Rhapsody & Alien 40th anniversary).

Let's not confuse HDR 10+ capability with the sort of dynamic tone mapping that Madvr or a Lumagen can perform on all source material.

[shartm]

16 hours ago, oztheatre said:

Не втягивайтесь в pixels mate. Epson имеет лучший объектив. Вы можете иметь проектор 20K с миллиардом пикселей на экране, если объектив не соответствует ему, у вас нет проектора 20k. Оптика намного важнее, чем количество пикселей. Держите то, что у вас есть, это блестящий проектор.

 

I'm sorry, but it's not even funny. JVC N-series has better detail and uniformity of focus than all other household projectors on the market. Not to mention the level of black, contrast, real brightness in HDR, high-quality frame interpolation in 4K, dynamic aperture without spectacular pumping, etc. This is another league.

Edited August 23, 2019 by shartm

[oztheatre]

1 hour ago, shartm said:

 

I'm sorry, but it's not even funny. JVC N-series has better detail and uniformity of focus than all other household projectors on the market. Not to mention the level of black, contrast, real brightness in HDR, high-quality frame interpolation in 4K, dynamic aperture without spectacular pumping, etc. This is another league.

Not the case at all. The N series has CA present in the few I've had here, my 9400 does not. The epson is brighter too so not sure what you're looking at there, but do as you want mate, it's your money.

[wooferocau]

8 hours ago, shartm said:

 

I'm sorry, but it's not even funny. JVC N-series has better detail and uniformity of focus than all other household projectors on the market. Not to mention the level of black, contrast, real brightness in HDR, high-quality frame interpolation in 4K, dynamic aperture without spectacular pumping, etc. This is another league.

And how many " N Series" have YOU personally  tested?   Because in the real world your above statement is far  far from accurate!! 

[hopefullguy]

as just a follower of this thread and having pj's that most of you would laugh at just my 2 cents on

 

"JVC N-series has better detail and uniformity of focus than all other household projectors on the market. Not to mention the level of black, contrast, real brightness in HDR, high-quality frame interpolation in 4K, dynamic aperture without spectacular pumping, etc"

 

with the "basic" N5 at around $7500 and mid N9 at $9500 for a home projector they should be in a different league.

 

whats the eppy? half? hmm no brainer really. but thats from a low level user :-)

 

[wooferocau]

1 hour ago, hopefullguy said:

N9 at $9500 

 

Try $26799 for the NX9... 

[oztheatre]

1 hour ago, hopefullguy said:

as just a follower of this thread and having pj's that most of you would laugh at just my 2 cents on

 

"JVC N-series has better detail and uniformity of focus than all other household projectors on the market. Not to mention the level of black, contrast, real brightness in HDR, high-quality frame interpolation in 4K, dynamic aperture without spectacular pumping, etc"

 

with the "basic" N5 at around $7500 and mid N9 at $9500 for a home projector they should be in a different league.

 

whats the eppy? half? hmm no brainer really. but thats from a low level user

 

It's just the law of diminishing returns, you can apply it to everything from cars to washing machines. If you want the best, even if it's 5, 10 or 15% better, you pay near double etc.  

[Chamii]

 

[Gbickle]

17 hours ago, Chamii said:

 

 That was a great video. A Real thorough comparison going into detail on all units. Kudos to them.

[hopefullguy]

it was an interesting video but hardly a overwhelming endorsement of the jvc in particular.

 

cant see any mention of the teething problems with the newer jvc, also that close up of the lion was shocking and that black and white wheel thing was poor.. but they obviously liked it anyway. to bad it is double the price of the epson. definitely a case of big diminishing returns.

 

guess it depends on the usual variables.. budget, room and expectations.

 

also the screen door effect? hmm looking that close is what silly's do when buying big screen tvs. i have an older epson and there is no screen door or chicken wire. but i guess soem like watching 120" screens at 1metrer.. guess it might impress some, just dont tell them the price. :-)

[oztheatre]

44 minutes ago, hopefullguy said:

it was an interesting video but hardly a overwhelming endorsement of the jvc in particular.

 

cant see any mention of the teething problems with the newer jvc, also that close up of the lion was shocking and that black and white wheel thing was poor.. but they obviously liked it anyway. to bad it is double the price of the epson. definitely a case of big diminishing returns.

 

guess it depends on the usual variables.. budget, room and expectations.

 

also the screen door effect? hmm looking that close is what silly's do when buying big screen tvs. i have an older epson and there is no screen door or chicken wire. but i guess soem like watching 120" screens at 1metrer.. guess it might impress some, just dont tell them the price.

Like I've been saying all along, the JVC is not 'lightyears' ahead of the epson 9400. Those are the terms thrown around, terms like 'way better', 'leaps and bounds ahead', 'far superior on every level' - that video shows and proves those blanket statements are far reaching. Because if you had them side by side like they did (and I have) you'd never make such a silly claim. If anything the Epson is better in some areas. You would only need to use SDE as a purchasing criteria is you're going extreme with your screen size or seating position, and most don't, so it becomes far less important over optics, contrast, brightness and features. 

 

[cwt]

5 hours ago, hopefullguy said:

it was an interesting video but hardly a overwhelming endorsement of the jvc in particular.

 

cant see any mention of the teething problems with the newer jvc, also that close up of the lion was shocking and that black and white wheel thing was poor.. but they obviously liked it anyway. to bad it is double the price of the epson. definitely a case of big diminishing returns.

Yes ; fascinating the JVC had problems with stair stepping and aliasing when upscaling in this day and age  Best fed UHD sources and don't sit too close of course .

Would be sweet for the modified uhz65 be available out here with its impressive 80% of BT2020 colour gamut ' not withstanding its manual zoom which isn't a factor for the JVC / Epson 

[Owen]

On 01/09/2019 at 10:32 AM, Gbickle said:

 That was a great video. A Real thorough comparison going into detail on all units. Kudos to them.

Since no one else has chimed in I think I should.

The video is a good example of why side by side comparisons like this are BAD idea, especially when no effort has been put into equalising gamma between all the projectors, and that was NOT done.

Anyone wonder why the JVC looks so dark in this comparison even though the peak white level is the same as the other two projectors afters calibration? I'll tell you why, its because gamma was NOT equalised.

If gamma was adjusted at all it was done "by the numbers" using calibration software, and since the JVC has the lowest black level ALL levels below peak white will be lower then the other projectors. When it gets down to shadow areas the JVC will be MUCH darker because the black level is a lot lower. The result is a significantly lower average picture level even though peak white and gamma "by the numbers" may be the same. This is compounded by the camera which will expose for the brightest parts of the image, which where from the Epson, and be under exposed for the JVC making it look too dark. Viewed in isolation the JVC would not look like that as the camera , and the human eye expose for the image in front of them.

The Epson is NOT brighter than the other contenders after calibration, which is whats matters,  but the gamma setup is pushing up every level below peak white in order to get a significantly higher average picture level, even at the expense of clipping near white areas. This will make it "look" much brighter even though peak brightness is the same. Its not accurate and is straight up cheating, ANY projector with adjustable gamma can be set up to look like the Epson.

If gamma is corrected between those projectors they will ALL look identical in brightness until you get down to very dark shadows. Only levels below about 5% will be darker on the JVC , as they should be due to the much low black level.

 

The contrast of DLP, ANY DLP, is straight up unacceptable to me and I would not buy one at any price. Its like comparing an old LCD TV with a good Plasma TV, no contest.

 

The Epson picture is downright ugly, and contrast is poor by the standards of 7 years ago. I wouldn't even consider one.

 

The JVC needs an external scaler. Its unforgivable they they can't provide decent scaling, it costs stuff all to provide so there is absolutely ZERO excuse. Using a PC for scaling and HDR tone mapping will remain the highest quality option for years to come so a projector doesn't need to do those jobs for my use. Contrast and blacks are also a significant step down from the standards of the previous generation JVC's and I can't accept that. No amount of extra "resolution" can make up for lower contrast IMHO. 9 times out of 10 the actual visible resolution of the movie is the limitation not the resolution of the projector.

Resolution is just a number and is HIGHLY overrated, when your actually viewing a movie and not pixel peeping still images, you aren't going to notice.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Owen

[oztheatre]

The Epson is downright ugly? Did you mean in the video it looks ugly? Anyhow, as you've pointed out running 3 machines with the gamma out is not the way to do it. 

 

So who on the planet has done it correctly? It can't be that hard can it? 

 

The epson throws a stunning image, absolutely beautiful picture, unless you're pixel peeping at 30cm from the screen, you'll see pixels, but you'll see how clean the optics are too. I've always agreed with most of what you say, contrast being the most noticeable thing on screen but you need good image processing, good optics and a bright image too, all are important. But I think you get a bit harsh on the manufacturers mate. It's a sub 4 grand projector, not a 40 grand projector. 

22 hours ago, Owen said:

Resolution is just a number and is HIGHLY overrated, when your actually viewing a movie and not pixel peeping still images, you aren't going to notice.

 

 

I agree, why Epson get away with being a pixel shifter. I'll take a 2K projector with a good lens over an 8K projector with a crap lens any day of the week. All the pixels in the world mean nothing if shooting out of an ordinary lens not up to the resolution of the projector. 

 

 

 

 

[Javs]

On 03/09/2019 at 9:32 PM, Owen said:

Since no one else has chimed in I think I should.

The video is a good example of why side by side comparisons like this are BAD idea, especially when no effort has been put into equalising gamma between all the projectors, and that was NOT done.

Anyone wonder why the JVC looks so dark in this comparison even though the peak white level is the same as the other two projectors afters calibration? I'll tell you why, its because gamma was NOT equalised.

If gamma was adjusted at all it was done "by the numbers" using calibration software, and since the JVC has the lowest black level ALL levels below peak white will be lower then the other projectors. When it gets down to shadow areas the JVC will be MUCH darker because the black level is a lot lower. The result is a significantly lower average picture level even though peak white and gamma "by the numbers" may be the same. This is compounded by the camera which will expose for the brightest parts of the image, which where from the Epson, and be under exposed for the JVC making it look too dark. Viewed in isolation the JVC would not look like that as the camera , and the human eye expose for the image in front of them.

The Epson is NOT brighter than the other contenders after calibration, which is whats matters,  but the gamma setup is pushing up every level below peak white in order to get a significantly higher average picture level, even at the expense of clipping near white areas. This will make it "look" much brighter even though peak brightness is the same. Its not accurate and is straight up cheating, ANY projector with adjustable gamma can be set up to look like the Epson.

If gamma is corrected between those projectors they will ALL look identical in brightness until you get down to very dark shadows. Only levels below about 5% will be darker on the JVC , as they should be due to the much low black level.

 

The contrast of DLP, ANY DLP, is straight up unacceptable to me and I would not buy one at any price. Its like comparing an old LCD TV with a good Plasma TV, no contest.

 

The Epson picture is downright ugly, and contrast is poor by the standards of 7 years ago. I wouldn't even consider one.

 

The JVC needs an external scaler. Its unforgivable they they can't provide decent scaling, it costs stuff all to provide so there is absolutely ZERO excuse. Using a PC for scaling and HDR tone mapping will remain the highest quality option for years to come so a projector doesn't need to do those jobs for my use. Contrast and blacks are also a significant step down from the standards of the previous generation JVC's and I can't accept that. No amount of extra "resolution" can make up for lower contrast IMHO. 9 times out of 10 the actual visible resolution of the movie is the limitation not the resolution of the projector.

Resolution is just a number and is HIGHLY overrated, when your actually viewing a movie and not pixel peeping still images, you aren't going to notice.

 

 

You must be heaps of fun at parties!

 

Every post from you is just nihilist drivel.

[j19801110]

On 24/08/2019 at 12:51 AM, oztheatre said:

Not the case at all. The N series has CA present in the few I've had here, my 9400 does not. The epson is brighter too so not sure what you're looking at there, but do as you want mate, it's your money.

I’ve had JVC projectors for the last 12 years and just switched to Epson 9400 from a JVC X9500. 

 

I have not seen the new N series but the 9400 is 3x as bright in HDR brightest mode than the JVC with very very good colour. It’s as bright as the JVC with perfect P3 gamut (measured!). The lens is sharper than any JVC I’ve had with ability to achieve near perfect convergence across the whole screen. 

 

Yes, I’m still keeping an older JVC for when I want that organic JVC look. But I’ll never buy a new JVC again. Why? 

 

1. Atrocious support in Oz. UK JVC support was leagues better. 

2. Atrocious follow up on firmware fixes with existing units worldwide. They have released shockingly bad lines over the years. Out of the box, decent. But as the panels and lamps age, not so much...

3. The cost of a new lamp is close to AU$480 or more! If you think a knock off lamp is good value, it is an extremely bad idea for many reasons - including ruined light paths over time!

 

I will have a used old JVC around but only for Blu Ray. I refuse to buy a new lamp yearly at JVC prices for HDR. 

 

I got my Epson 9400 for $4200 including 3 laps and 3 years and 3 months of warranty. I will change the lamp every year and I won’t mind paying the $130 to do so (beyond the next 3 years that are already covered). I will also receive the major firmware updates Epson releases for all units. In fact, sent them a list of things already to look at and have little doubt they will based on previous support other units have received.

 

yup, contrast is not everything. I’m fed up with JVC’s incompetence. No more new unit sales from me but I’ll buy your used units when you upgrade.  

 

the Epson will be great for watching with lights on, 3D (OMG, leagues better than any JVC), day watching (yes that is now also a thing with this beast) and definitely HDR. JVC is related to what it does best... SDR in a dark dark cave. 

[j19801110]

Just to add: Epson has about 2x the ANSI of my old x9500 JVC and very noticeable! It’s like a massive flat panel even with the lights on. 

 

The on/off is much better on the JVC but it’s not as massive a gap as it used to be. Or I have a very good sample here. Not sure. The JVC really needs full lights out to show its contrast performance. The Epson doesn’t. Both have their place so I do have both.  

[Spizz]

https://tech4u.it/21444-jvc-n5-n7-nx9-nuovo-fw-frame-adapt-hdr-in-arrivo/

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=it&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.it&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://tech4u.it/21444-jvc-n5-n7-nx9-nuovo-fw-frame-adapt-hdr-in-arrivo/&xid=17259,15700019,15700186,15700190,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265&usg=ALkJrhjnA2_zkIBMgNQBUpt9ZOsjOKqbTg

 

Exciting times for owners.

[Michael391]

https://tech4u.it/21444-jvc-n5-n7-nx9-nuovo-fw-frame-adapt-hdr-in-arrivo/
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=it&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.it&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://tech4u.it/21444-jvc-n5-n7-nx9-nuovo-fw-frame-adapt-hdr-in-arrivo/&xid=17259,15700019,15700186,15700190,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265&usg=ALkJrhjnA2_zkIBMgNQBUpt9ZOsjOKqbTg
 
Exciting times for owners.

Very good times indeed

[Michael391]

A little more info on it today......

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/#/topics/3089022