Chord Electronics Owners & Discussion Thread

[rand129678]

2 hours ago, Sime V2 said:

Isn’t there another thread about up sampling?

Out of respect for Sime V2, maybe we should continue non M-Scaler discussion in @Ittaku's thread here:

 

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/261591-extreme-filtering-software-upscaling/?page=30

 

Unless @Ittakudoesn't want any HQPlayer discussion there too, since he's thinking of a potential competing product?

 

[Ittaku]

Just now, Music2496 said:

Out of respect for Sime V2, maybe we should continue non M-Scaler discussion in @Ittaku's thread here:

 

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/261591-extreme-filtering-software-upscaling/?page=30

 

Unless @Ittakudoesn't want any HQPlayer discussion there too, since he's thinking of a potential competing product?

I don't mind any discussion relating to upscaling at all. If I can actually market a product out of it I need to know everything else that's out there, and realistically it'll take months before I can make anything for anyone else. I'm not really a businessman so I'll probably fail on the bringing to market side of things anyway.

[davewantsmoore]

16 hours ago, Ittaku said:

16M on 16 bits is a lot more processing power than 16M on 1 bit.

?!??

[davewantsmoore]

11 hours ago, Music2496 said:

And the better DACs generally have high quality digital filtering already and this is a top notch DAC/SACD player.

 

11 hours ago, a.dent said:

I've found Roon alone with no DSP straight into my Accuphase DP-560 is still the best.

It's really difficult to know what input rates and filters to target with a Sabre DAC, seeing as how they operate internally.

 

I don't really see how feeding them DSD is an advantage, or how feeding them high rate PCM is an advantage (unless you are using the HSLink, maybe - but I'm unclear on that - their pictures would indicate yes, but they're high-level)

[Steveo888]

Any other Mscaler users here that want to report on it since it has broken in? I would be happy to hear about those experiences, as I already have a Dave and am considering the mscaler as the final piece in my current system.

 

I have updated everything else I possible can and am looking at legends Tikandis as a speaker replacement as I have reached my limit on my current speakers, and after the mscaler I will have no where else to go.

 

However I would be keen to hear about mscaler experiences. Any users in Sydney who can easily come over and test a mscaler with a dave? It doesnt appear any dealers are offering me an in home demo so its strange to hear how people have organised that. I am concerned as I have heard a (very small) minority that hasn't liked the mscaler.

 

The only reason I am concerned is I am using a deqx with it so I don't know if that's going to mitigate or dilute the impact on the mscaler, which is why I want to trial it in my set up first as hearing it elsewhere would not really give me a sense of what it is doing in my system. I am hopeful since I have a dave but I still don't want to gamble the cost of the mscaler to try it out. My current system is already at a level I am completely happy with so if the mscaler is a big jump from this point I will be very happy.

[Ittaku]

1 hour ago, sandrews888 said:

The only reason I am concerned is I am using a deqx with it so I don't know if that's going to mitigate or dilute the impact on the mscaler, which is why I want to trial it in my set up first as hearing it elsewhere would not really give me a sense of what it is doing in my system.

When we listened to the mscaler in my system, it went in after my digital signal processing and before the DAC itself (MSB reference) and still made for a dramatic improvement. Deqx will be much the same unless you're resampling to a non-integer multiple sample rate for deqx to work (eg 44 to 48). Then I can't guarantee the same effect since that's detrimental to the sound quality.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Ittaku

[davewantsmoore]

7 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

?!??

Perhaps my "comment" (sorry) belongs in the other thread, although I note you're focused on PCM there.

 

 

Wouldn't you expect the remodulation of the 1-bit signal to be extremely computationally intensive? ... or have I seemed to misunderstand something about the comparison you made?

[CN211276]

You do need to audition the Mscaler in your own system. My system is NVA and not sold through dealers so at the demo the only item they had was my Qutest. I was not impressed with what i heard at the dealers but when I loaned it for a week and a half it was a different matter. In my system it does what it says on the tin and really shines with the semi omnidirectional speakers. I am missing it and hopefully it will arrive next week. Expensive, but in the context of my system worth it.

[Stereophilus]

1 hour ago, CN211276 said:

semi omnidirectional speakers

This seems to be a paradoxical statement... could you explain?

[CN211276]

1 hour ago, Stereophilus said:

This seems to be a paradoxical statement... could you explain?

A speaker where the higher frequencies are directional and the lower frequencies are transmitted upwards to interact with the room boundaries. There is a full explanation on the NVA website.

[Deano_malaysia]

Any other Mscaler users here that want to report on it since it has broken in? I would be happy to hear about those experiences, as I already have a Dave and am considering the mscaler as the final piece in my current system.  

I have updated everything else I possible can and am looking at legends Tikandis as a speaker replacement as I have reached my limit on my current speakers, and after the mscaler I will have no where else to go.

 

However I would be keen to hear about mscaler experiences. Any users in Sydney who can easily come over and test a mscaler with a dave? It doesnt appear any dealers are offering me an in home demo so its strange to hear how people have organised that. I am concerned as I have heard a (very small) minority that hasn't liked the mscaler.

 

The only reason I am concerned is I am using a deqx with it so I don't know if that's going to mitigate or dilute the impact on the mscaler, which is why I want to trial it in my set up first as hearing it elsewhere would not really give me a sense of what it is doing in my system. I am hopeful since I have a dave but I still don't want to gamble the cost of the mscaler to try it out. My current system is already at a level I am completely happy with so if the mscaler is a big jump from this point I will be very happy.

 

Morning, I can understand that you are reluctant to spend money on a product that you have not heard and yes there are a few people that are saying its not as good as they expected 

I would take that with a pinch of salt, and do try and demo if you can, I demoed the HMS and within 20 seconds, knew immediately that I wanted it! sorry needed it

 

Listed below are reviews from repetuble online magazines, have a read if you haven't already

 

But all I can say from mine and a friends perspective is that the HMS is by far the most important component we have ever bought and I have been into hifi for 25 years [emoji6]

 

Once you hear it, you will know exatcly what it does and then try and live without it lol

 

What does it do? It does everything right by recreating exatcly what was recorded

 

Reviews

 

https://www.soundstageaustralia.com...rd-electronics-hugo-m-scaler-digital-upscaler

 

 

German review so translate

https://www.lowbeats.de/chord-hugo-tt-2-und-m-scaler-klangstarker-dac-im-test/

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/my-quest-for-a-new-dac-part-5-chord-electronics-hugo-m-scaler-hugo-tt-2-r781/

 

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/M-Scaler-Review-HiFi-World.pdf

 

Hope this helps

 

[emoji4]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[a.dent]

@Deano_malaysia for interest what is your DAC?

I'm convinced the choice of DAC will influence the effectiveness of the M-Scaler.

[Deano_malaysia]

[mention=152113]Deano_malaysia[/mention] for interest what is your DAC?
I'm convinced the choice of DAC will influence the effectiveness of the M-Scaler.

Hey a.dent,

Im using the Qutest and my friend uses the Dave, However I have listened to the HMS with the Aqua La scala MKII and the AudioLab M Dac+ and still the sound was excellent

Dont get me wrong the Chord M Scaler with the Chord Dac's did sound better but even with the other dacs only receiving half the taps they still sounded more analogue and more open

Im convinced the WTA filter is where the magic happens not just the taps

Cheers

[legend]

On ‎5‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 4:32 PM, Music2496 said:

 

HQP's PCM up-sampling doesn't need an uber computer (DSD up-sampling is a whole different kettle of fish) but this CPU is probably the issue @legend - with the two 1 million tap filters only, which are the most CPU intensive of the HQP PCM filters.

Bought this used PC on eBay yesterday from Soho-Express in Sydney for a bit over $200 ex GST:

HP Compaq Elite 8200 SFF i7-2600 @3.4 GHz with 8Gb RAM + 500Gb HD and Win10 Pro.

 

Arrived this morning and can now use HQplayer with sincM without any problems – just 5 sec latency!

 

Initial impressions are it sounds much like the M-Scaler.  With Heart’s ‘Alone’ track from their 'Live from Seattle' album one can not only resolve the individual clapping but can locate the members of the audience very precisely in space.  And Peter Gabriel’s ‘Sledgehammer’ is actually listenable – and I listened all the way through to its end for the first time in ages!

 

Will try to do some more listening this afternoon, particularly with classical music.

Edited March 8, 2019 by legend

[Ittaku]

I've recently bought another Topping DX7s which does PCM 768kHz/32bit to allow me to do upscaling experiments with my software approach of 15 million taps. I brought up the question of whether a clean sounding $700 DAC that accepts high bitrates could sound like a much more expensive DAC with software upscaling as a proxy marker of what it would be like with the M-Scaler, to answer whether a $700 DAC with a $7500 upscaler sounds as good as an $8000 DAC. The answer is NO. Pulling numbers out of my rear, the $700 DAC now sounds like a $2000 DAC.  It definitely sounds better, and I'm sure that most DACs would also benefit proportionately, but I believe the money would be better spent on a better DAC in the first place, and only consider an M-Scaler once the DAC is closer to or greater than the price of the upscaler itself.

[powerav]

25 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

only consider an M-Scaler once the DAC is closer to or greater than the price of the upscaler itself.

but the Mscaler is $7500! So are you saying that you really need the Hugo TT2, that's over $15000 for just playing some music without speakers or amp......Wow.

[powerav]

On 08/03/2019 at 12:34 PM, legend said:

Bought this used PC on eBay yesterday from Soho-Express in Sydney for a bit over $200 ex GST:

HP Compaq Elite 8200 SFF i7-2600 @3.4 GHz with 8Gb RAM + 500Gb HD and Win10 Pro.

 

Arrived this morning and can now use HQplayer with sincM without any problems – just 5 sec latency!

 

Initial impressions are it sounds much like the M-Scaler.  With Heart’s ‘Alone’ track from their 'Live from Seattle' album one can not only resolve the individual clapping but can locate the members of the audience very precisely in space.  And Peter Gabriel’s ‘Sledgehammer’ is actually listenable – and I listened all the way through to its end for the first time in ages!

 

Will try to do some more listening this afternoon, particularly with classical music.

This is what I like to read.

[Ittaku]

3 minutes ago, powerav said:

but the Mscaler is $7500! So are you saying that you really need the Hugo TT2, that's over $15000 for just playing some music without speakers or amp......Wow.

You misunderstand. It's a $7500 accessory. I'm saying it doesn't improve the sound by $7500 equivalent unless you've already spent almost that much on a DAC. If you spend $10k on a DAC it will sound better than spending $2500 on a DAC and $7500 on the scaler.

[rand129678]

36 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Pulling numbers out of my rear

 

36 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

only consider an M-Scaler once the DAC is closer to or greater than the price of the upscaler itself.

Have you heard Dave with M-Scaler, both together (not separately)?

Edited March 9, 2019 by Music2496

[Ittaku]

1 minute ago, Music2496 said:

Have you heard Dave with M-Scaler, both together (not separately)?

Nope, separately only.

[Deano_malaysia]

Sorry I disagree, we tested the Aqua La Scala mkII optologic with the M Scaler and 5 different people admitted the M Scaler with the Qutest was far superior

You need to spend time with the M Scaler to appreciate what it can do, 3-4 hrs is not enough, dont get me wrong from the getgo you should hear a difference but over time is where the HMS really excells

Many people say that once you have lived with it for about a week then take it out and see if you can live with out it, most other owners litrally last 5mins and then put it back in

This is just my thoughts

[Ittaku]

/me shrugs. That's just my opinion, you're entitled to your own too.

[Deano_malaysia]

/me shrugs. That's just my opinion, you're entitled to your own too.

Absolutely! The world would be a very boring place is everyone agreed [emoji6]

[rand129678]

7 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

/me shrugs. That's just my opinion, you're entitled to your own too.

Ha. And I also disagree but for different reasons.

 

With have a three way tie! 

 

I think it's better to just share observations without trying to make a general claim... even though, the reality is everything we all write really is really only a subjective opinion...

 

None of us (in this thread anyway) have any objective data to make any claim about what is the best way to go ...

 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Music2496

[Ittaku]

2 minutes ago, Music2496 said:

Ha. And I also disagree but for different reasons.

 

With have a three way tie! 

 

I think it's better to just share observations without trying to make a general claim... even though, the reality is everything we all write really is really only a subjective opinion...

 

None of us (in this thread anyway) have any objective data to make any claim about what is the best way to go about things in this fun hobby we all love...

Absolutely, and that's all I can claim based on my observations. Reviews are no different. I think for example the MSB Premier DAC sounds light years better than the Chord Dave, and I can't imagine the Dave with Mscaler sounding as good, yet that combination costs as much as the Premier.